RE: A serious question (Full Version)

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LadyHugs -> RE: A serious question (7/16/2006 7:06:10 AM)

Dear LeatherBentOne, Ladies and Gentlemen;


quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I post on another board that caters to pro-dommes and their clients as I sell toys and offer training to the dommes.  I have noticed (being the rocket scientist that I am) that those men who pay for it are willing to see 18-20 year old dommes and pay for services from someone who clearly can't yet know her ass from a hole in the ground (even more can be said for men at that age so that isn't a slap at women, just age).  In addition, those same men are NOT submitting, what they are doing is too toppy to even be considered topping from the bottom.

So, the question is, what do people think the motivation is to people to pay hundreds of dollars for what people here would call "fetish delivery" and what do those same men think they are doing?


I can't figure out if you are more jealous that these young ladies earn more than you do peddling your gear, or more jealous of the men that have the financial means to be in the company of these young, hot vixens.

Akasha

I feel that it is fine and proper to ask CrappyDom as to the "spirit" of his post, if Akasha felt it needed to be asked. 

CrappyDom did open the door, when he mentioned he was selling toys to pro dominants as well as training them.


Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: A serious question (7/16/2006 8:25:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
I have noticed (being the rocket scientist that I am) that those men who pay for it are willing to see 18-20 year old dommes and pay for services from someone who clearly can't yet know her ass from a hole in the ground (even more can be said for men at that age so that isn't a slap at women, just age).  In addition, those same men are NOT submitting, what they are doing is too toppy to even be considered topping from the bottom
My opinion is that if dominant men who are otherwise engaged (with wives), or one who would generally be unable to get said girl to date him, is able to pay her to do to him exactly what he wants, it's a win-win situation...  She gets the money to buy her Pradas, he gets to play with a babe who doesn't threaten his masculinity.

quote:

So, the question is, what do people think the motivation is to people to pay hundreds of dollars for what people here would call "fetish delivery" and what do those same men think they are doing?
 One common motivation is that a huge amount of men would like to date younger women;  I'm guessing because it's harder to get it up for some of those men as they get older; so a young babe with toys facilitates things a great deal...   If his money can buy time with said babe with toys, than why not.  
Another perspective is that a lot of men work to aquire material comfort and the attention of women (unless he's gay, than that theory is out the window, lol).   If he finds a dominant woman, she may want to interfere with his material comfort, so in finding a pro, he bypasses the whole inconvenient courtship/commitment thing, and gets his rocks off.  
Just my opinion, YMMV.            M



TexasMaam -> RE: A serious question (7/16/2006 9:35:46 AM)

LeatherBentOne:
 
I thought peterk50's post, and Aakasha's post, were right on target.  He's s sincere submissive and who are you to flame him here?  She's a renowned Domina with expertise you would do well to emulate, so who the hell do you think you are to be so condescending to Her?

Crappy's question was:  So, the question is, what do people think the motivation is to people to pay hundreds of dollars for what people here would call "fetish delivery" and what do those same men think they are doing?
 
I think the answer is:
 
1. As has previously been expounded upon here, the motivation to pay hundreds of dollars comes from a man's reluctance to commit in servitude to a Domme for any length of time.  peterk50's response was My first thought exactly in response to the thread: They pay for the fantasy of immersing themselves in the lifestyle for a short session, and they pay for the convenience of walking away when the session is over.  ergo: they 'pay Her to go away', don't they?
 
2. What they think they are doing is just what they get out of it:  They think they are paying for a chance to session with a Domme without any long term or returning commitment.
 
If it works for the Pro Domme and works for the payee, the rest of us can just leave them alone and let them do their thing.
 
I am not the keeper of little subbie boy wannabe's.  Their judgment or lack thereof in chosing a Pro Domina is their problem, not mine.  If they choose a 20 year old novice Domina who doesn't know what she's doing, let the buyer beware.  He'll learn, won't he?
 
As for the 20 year old Domme, Pro or otherwise, there are those who are experienced and have judgment beyond their years.  As with any other age group, there are also those twits and bimbos all suited up in fetish gear flailing whips around playing the part who don't know a damn thing.  It's up to the 'buyer' to choose between them.
 
As for the seasoned Pro Domme, thank god they're out there!  I'm glad they're available for all the little 'never want to make a commitment' sluts so that I don't have to wade through them all by Myself.
 
As for Crappy's original question:  It's rhetorical anyway, so who cares?
 
peterk50's response was just fine. 
 
Aakasha has a right to take exception to those who flame the Pro's, her response was fine, too.
 
Your response, LeatherBentOne, was uncalled for.
 
TexasMaam



Caretakr -> RE: A serious question (7/16/2006 9:56:52 AM)

I think a pervious poster nailed the reason.

Why commit to, and put up with, a dominant woman who'd probably insist on some control of your personal life.....when you can just rent a reasonable substitute, and not have a harpy after you when you go home?

Makes perfect sense to me![;)]



MsAlpha -> RE: A serious question (7/16/2006 12:55:52 PM)

I understand the adversion to "20 somethings" I understand because they are suppose to be my peers and we are in very separate worlds. However there are some of us out here who think, who want experience, knowledge and education. Or atleast I am out here. Most men think I'm pretty but I have no photos posted here and since I've gotten on here I've gotten several messages by male subs who's interest in me has only been my age. I just see now that it may be harder from me to get the education and dare I say mentoring if this kind of ageism is normal. I'm not the type that wants to shout a few things then go back to being pretty. I want technique I want to be great at what I do and I want to explore all parts of myself and others. A artistic collaboration in fetish. I can make almost anyone tell me their darkest secrets so i've been considering ProDomme as a profession while in school. A crash course in developing myself as a Domme. Please give this interested intelligent "20 something" a chance.



CrappyDom -> RE: A serious question (7/16/2006 2:27:25 PM)

Aakasha and I have crossed swords before in a "how stupid is online/financial domination" thread I believe and it seems she is still rather pissed I guess.

Anyway, I haven't managed to get the question framed right but here is another stab at it.

Men (again, a vast generalization and clearly not all but perhaps most) are paying for a woman to dominate them, but rather than look for someone first and foremost who is a talented dominant they put that quality second and put youth and looks first and foremost.

Kind of like selecting a surgeon by looking at headshots or a model by asking for writing samples.

I didn't put this up as a slam on anyone, I don't think anyone here would argue that older women as a group are LESS experienced than younger women.  I am not attacking anyone who pays or is paid for services, more power to them.  I am just curious about the dynamic and thought the women here might be able to offer some insight as some have.



Caretakr -> RE: A serious question (7/16/2006 2:50:46 PM)

Dude you are seeing the wrong side.

You need to be asking the male subs this question.

I'mn sure that the "doggy dog pros" who really give great service, are just as pissed about male shallowness as you are confused by it.

It's about getting excited by a fantasy, and porn promotes cuteness and youth. Who needs competence?



Donnalee -> RE: A serious question (7/16/2006 2:52:51 PM)

I recently spoke with a guy who paid for some sessions with a ProDomme, and I was quite curious about the dynamics and motivations involved, so I quizzed him about it. 

In the end, it wasn't about D/s really (for the reasons stated already about it being too toppy to even be called topping from the bottom), it certainly wasn't lifestyle.  For him it was a 2 month thrill.  It was a sex kink-to-be-explored.  It answered his questions, and he finished his experiment.  He didn't want anything except an hour of fantasy play, and he got exactly what he wanted, and left.  No strings, and everybody was happy.

I thought it made better sense then getting involved with someone and a few weeks into it announcing, "Interesting!  Not for me. Bye."  There certainly are lots of other choices out there, but for my buddy, that was the only tenable one for him.



SweetDommes -> RE: A serious question (7/16/2006 5:05:42 PM)

I'm with Caretakr - you are asking the wrong people.

However, just from what I have seen/heard/experienced in my few years on this planet:  yes, guys are initially going to be attracted to looks, youth, beauty - but for repeat visits (or long term relationships) they either eventually learn, or they get badly hurt.



BlkTallFullfig -> RE: A serious question (7/16/2006 5:21:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom
Kind of like selecting a surgeon by looking at headshots or a model by asking for writing samples.
I don't think that is a reasonable comparison in that those men are not paying to be "dominated."  They're paying because that's the look and combination of woman/toy that makes their man gristles (according toTreSwank) hard, and there's no expectation or question as to whether he is good enough to court/keep her.  M



Lilmissbossy -> RE: A serious question (7/17/2006 5:14:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I post on another board that caters to pro-dommes and their clients as I sell toys and offer training to the dommes.  I have noticed (being the rocket scientist that I am) that those men who pay for it are willing to see 18-20 year old dommes and pay for services from someone who clearly can't yet know her ass from a hole in the ground


With all the respect in the world, I'm 18, I know myself perfectly well and I certainly wouldn't need a man to teach me how to dominate any more than I'd need a man to teach me how to breathe in and out.  It's part of my natural make up. 

Any Domme that needs a man to teach her how to do her work isn't deserving of the title in the first place.





MisPandora -> RE: A serious question (7/17/2006 6:02:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressTexas

While I respect CrappyDom and everyone else who has posted here, I would like to speak out as a 20-something "Pro." I feel that while age certainly does have something to do with it, it isn't everything. I for one, am 20, but at this young age, I've already traveled the world,  I run 2 succesful businesses, I am a certified emergency medic, have taken courses in psych, survived cancer, more surgeries than I would like to remember, and helped several friends start their own businesses. I feel that my life experience gives me a maturity that many people don't have. This may sound arrogant, but I personally know many men and women older than me, with little to no life experience. I feel, contrary to CrappyDom's post, that I do know my ass from a hole in the ground. I did hours of research both online, real life, book studies, and smacked myself with a single tail lord only knows how may times in my learning. Pro Dommes provide a service, which may not be valuable to all, but is certainly valuable to some. I am appalled, however unsurprised that a young ProDomme knew nothing of aftercare and simply dropped the sub after getting her fee. However I do not believe that this is limited to young Pro's. I believe that you will find bad Pro's in all ages. I think aftercare is as important to play as play itself. The reason I write this post in such a self righteous manner, is because I feel that young Pro Dommes are grouped unfairly. To be honest I feel may pro's are grouped unfairly.  I know not many Pro's, young or otherwise take the care I do, but it still grates on one of my few remaining nerves to be grouped ( not necessarily here ) as a prostitute or clueless ninny, incapable of "knowing her ass from a hole in the ground."

Sincerely and respectfully put forth,
Texas

Thanks for your post, Texas.  I too was a "twentysomething" pro dom.  I ran my own studio for 5 years, and had women twice my age clamoring to work for me because I was fair, no-nonsense, and ran a tight, clean space.  As that "twentysomething", I entered into the pro scene as a paramedic and a business manager, was mentored by a male dom, and was a member of several BDSM educational community groups.   I became a respected peer of women who have been in the business 20+ years.  While some of the clients were in fact, seeking fetish fulfilment, most of them who continued to see me were submissives who could not have SM as a part of their daily lives but who deeply needed or desired to have a taste of it every now and again.  Several of those fellows are still in touch with me to this day, some 11 years later and me in retirement.



MistrssM -> RE: A serious question (7/17/2006 12:27:58 PM)

Its simple...most men are shallow and when seeking purely fantasy fufillment looks are all that really matter...they rarely ask for a dommes experience or training...but "Can I see a picture" is almost always the first question..

And for most a part of them knows the only way they can get a 18-20 year old to give them the time of day is to pay.



cloudboy -> RE: A serious question (7/17/2006 12:45:20 PM)

Your question was clearly stated in the first place. AAkasha's response was a vintage ab homimen diatribe.

My answer to your question would be that for paying clients, looks and youth trump age and expertise.

If you can "submit" to a Domme who looks like Linda Fiorentina at age 22, what difference does it make how she ties a knot or how she weilds a flogger? The thrill is in the image and fantasy projection. The thrill is in having a young, dominant woman control you. The thrill is in what masturbation material you can carry away from the scene. Clearly a client is paying for a thrill, not a "meaningful" relationship.

To me this choice is a logical one in the wham-bam-thank-you-maam world of professional domination. Better the domina correspond to the image a client sees in the Porn industry than to the mother-of-two who lives next door to him.

Its all a play on the old maxim, men respond to what they see, women to what they hear.




thetammyjo -> RE: A serious question (7/17/2006 2:43:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

Dude you are seeing the wrong side.

You need to be asking the male subs this question.

I'mn sure that the "doggy dog pros" who really give great service, are just as pissed about male shallowness as you are confused by it.

It's about getting excited by a fantasy, and porn promotes cuteness and youth. Who needs competence?


I agree.

I think a better forum to ask this question would be one for professional services or one directed at the people willing to pay (bottoms).



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