A gun making thread...

A gun making thread... (Full Version)

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MercTech -> A gun making thread... (3/7/2015 9:57:06 AM)
A while back; I posted a bit about a CNC milling machine that was marketed as able to make firearm parts that FedEx refused to ship. Yep, there are plenty of other small scale machines that one can use to make firearm parts on. In case there is any interest; here is a link to a demonstration that was done in Texas right outside their capitol building. http://build.slashdot.org/story/15/03/06/201247/come-and-take-it-texas-gun-enthusiasts-video

MrBukani -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/7/2015 7:30:06 PM)
Buy fertilizer you napalm oil eaters and burn MF.

MercTech -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/7/2015 11:52:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrBukani Buy fertilizer you napalm oil eaters and burn MF. It sounds like you think anyone with a passing interest in computer controlled manufacturing processes should burn in hell.

KenDckey -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/8/2015 12:40:38 AM)
LOL No Sounds more like he thinks we should ban pop tarts and pork chops because they can be chewed to look like a gun LOL

joether -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/8/2015 12:49:21 AM)
Every piece of technology has two uses: Something that improves humanity, and something that destroys it. With 3D printing coming in to existence, all manner of things could be produced. Some of it, that helps ease the suffering on people's lives. I know of one medical patient whom got a plastic plating designed specifically for their head. In another example, one engineer created a low cost printer that makes artificial limbs for people in Africa whom are victims of anti-personnel mines. But to print firearm parts, feels like a destructive use of the technology. Yes, its 'neat' and 'curious' to see such parts handle the sort of stresses firearms are subjected to over a long period of time. And I'm always for improvement in technology. But how does this technology really improve the lives of people? Firearms in America are already pathetically easy to obtain. This device and others like it serve the criminal world great, by creating weapons 'off the radar' from established manufactures. Just because we have the power and knowledge to do it.....should we do it? Devices like this one will eventually be either heavily restricted or ban all together. Once the Firearm Industry starts to loose money on sales, they will push Congress to form such laws. That or some well known politician is killed with either some or all the parts created using a device like this one. The gentlemen in the video have good intentions. Unfortunately it doesn't take to much imagination how these tools can be used for the wrong reasons and remain under the radar.

epiphiny43 -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/8/2015 3:30:25 AM)
Sorry, 3D printing is as likely to be banned as anti-biotics. It's already a disruptive technology forming the core of whole new industrial methods and business models. Guns are a social problem in certain countries. Giving up 3D printing because Americans kill less than half the numbers with guns(Half of which are suicides) that doctors do with stupidity and human errors isn't quite enough to deliberately put the US at an economic disadvantage we couldn't dig out from. Getting rid of CNC machines and scanners to make them potent is even less possible. People who even talk about limiting crucial new technology mostly have absolutely no understanding of it. Both are now essential to compete globally or militarily and 'open code'. Any good engineering student can build either '3D' printers or CNC cutters from scratch with old school tools and obsolete computers for controllers.

MercTech -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/8/2015 6:07:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether Every piece of technology has two uses: Something that improves humanity, and something that destroys it. With 3D printing coming in to existence, all manner of things could be produced. Some of it, that helps ease the suffering on people's lives. I know of one medical patient whom got a plastic plating designed specifically for their head. In another example, one engineer created a low cost printer that makes artificial limbs for people in Africa whom are victims of anti-personnel mines. But to print firearm parts, feels like a destructive use of the technology. Yes, its 'neat' and 'curious' to see such parts handle the sort of stresses firearms are subjected to over a long period of time. And I'm always for improvement in technology. But how does this technology really improve the lives of people? Firearms in America are already pathetically easy to obtain. This device and others like it serve the criminal world great, by creating weapons 'off the radar' from established manufactures. Just because we have the power and knowledge to do it.....should we do it? Devices like this one will eventually be either heavily restricted or ban all together. Once the Firearm Industry starts to loose money on sales, they will push Congress to form such laws. That or some well known politician is killed with either some or all the parts created using a device like this one. The gentlemen in the video have good intentions. Unfortunately it doesn't take to much imagination how these tools can be used for the wrong reasons and remain under the radar. Sorry, but devices like this have been on the market as large industrial machines for at least 20 years. The home hobbyist version that one, and only one, company has advertised as capable of making firearms parts does not change the fact that CNC machining is a common and prevalent technology. Banning something because it MIGHT be used to make something dangerous is rather paranoid in the extreme. By that same logic we would be banning things like: Gasoline because it can be used to make hyperbaric bombs Pressure cookers because they can be part of an IED Cellphones because they can be used as a remote bomb trigger. Soap because it is an ingredient in making some plastic explosives Plumbing tools because they can be used to make pipe bombs and firearms and silencers for firearms Screwdrivers and crow bars because they can be used as a weapon or for breaking and entering crimes. Low power radio/receiver devices because they might be used in a bomb carrying drone aircraft. Diesel fuel and fertilizer as they can be used to make explosive devices. Drain cleaner because it can be used to manufacture explosives. Charcoal because it is an ingredient to make black powder explosives Another point I see as shown in that published video is that no one is going under the radar but demonstrating a product they wish to sell in an extremely public venue. People who hunt, people who view firearms as a hobby, and people that collect firearms, don't do so "under the radar" but right out in public along with other people with the same interests. The nonsensical paranoia that would have us believe that anyone with skill to use a firearm or owns a firearm is instantly transformed into a slavering maniac truly gets tiresome. Oh, the slavering maniacs do exist. But handing someone a firearm is not what makes one a homicidal antisocial murderer. Excuse my rant a bit. The continual attacks on a law abiding segment of the population are irritating, to say the least. Attacking civil liberties out of fear has led to many abuses in the past. The anti-gun rants sound so much like the rants of yesteryear fringe groups wanting miscegenation laws and classification of homosexuality as a crime make me cringe. Less because of the subject of the rants but because the concept of legislating fear into repression of freedoms sounds so much like tyranny.

joether -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/8/2015 7:24:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech quote: ORIGINAL: joether Every piece of technology has two uses: Something that improves humanity, and something that destroys it. With 3D printing coming in to existence, all manner of things could be produced. Some of it, that helps ease the suffering on people's lives. I know of one medical patient whom got a plastic plating designed specifically for their head. In another example, one engineer created a low cost printer that makes artificial limbs for people in Africa whom are victims of anti-personnel mines. But to print firearm parts, feels like a destructive use of the technology. Yes, its 'neat' and 'curious' to see such parts handle the sort of stresses firearms are subjected to over a long period of time. And I'm always for improvement in technology. But how does this technology really improve the lives of people? Firearms in America are already pathetically easy to obtain. This device and others like it serve the criminal world great, by creating weapons 'off the radar' from established manufactures. Just because we have the power and knowledge to do it.....should we do it? Devices like this one will eventually be either heavily restricted or ban all together. Once the Firearm Industry starts to loose money on sales, they will push Congress to form such laws. That or some well known politician is killed with either some or all the parts created using a device like this one. The gentlemen in the video have good intentions. Unfortunately it doesn't take to much imagination how these tools can be used for the wrong reasons and remain under the radar. Sorry, but devices like this have been on the market as large industrial machines for at least 20 years. The home hobbyist version that one, and only one, company has advertised as capable of making firearms parts does not change the fact that CNC machining is a common and prevalent technology. Banning something because it MIGHT be used to make something dangerous is rather paranoid in the extreme. By that same logic we would be banning things like: Gasoline because it can be used to make hyperbaric bombs Pressure cookers because they can be part of an IED Cellphones because they can be used as a remote bomb trigger. Soap because it is an ingredient in making some plastic explosives Plumbing tools because they can be used to make pipe bombs and firearms and silencers for firearms Screwdrivers and crow bars because they can be used as a weapon or for breaking and entering crimes. Low power radio/receiver devices because they might be used in a bomb carrying drone aircraft. Diesel fuel and fertilizer as they can be used to make explosive devices. Drain cleaner because it can be used to manufacture explosives. Charcoal because it is an ingredient to make black powder explosives Another point I see as shown in that published video is that no one is going under the radar but demonstrating a product they wish to sell in an extremely public venue. People who hunt, people who view firearms as a hobby, and people that collect firearms, don't do so "under the radar" but right out in public along with other people with the same interests. The nonsensical paranoia that would have us believe that anyone with skill to use a firearm or owns a firearm is instantly transformed into a slavering maniac truly gets tiresome. Oh, the slavering maniacs do exist. But handing someone a firearm is not what makes one a homicidal antisocial murderer. Excuse my rant a bit. The continual attacks on a law abiding segment of the population are irritating, to say the least. Attacking civil liberties out of fear has led to many abuses in the past. The anti-gun rants sound so much like the rants of yesteryear fringe groups wanting miscegenation laws and classification of homosexuality as a crime make me cringe. Less because of the subject of the rants but because the concept of legislating fear into repression of freedoms sounds so much like tyranny. And yet you miss the whole point of what I was getting at. What you thought as a 'delusional rant', is s sensible question: Why should we test in making something that doesn't advance humanity? If what you say is true, there is no point for this device. The gun collector will not get something 'made in his house'. Collecting something is an authentic experience, not a hollow artificial creation. One would have more pleasure in finding an old musket in some attic that belonged to someone important in history; than to craft an imitation arm. The ones that would fashion firearms in this manner are trying to evade contact with the law. And what kind of person would desire to evade the law, because said law, might be looking for them? Certainly not the hobbyist or hunter. Does a firearm turn someone into a "....homicidal antisocial murder'? Well, if we used science, I think the answer is 'no'. But conservatives on this forum and in the nation have a weird distrust for science. Preferring instead to superstitions and fantasy. Since the fantasy is that you will be attacked by a criminal with intent on killing you in your own house; and the firearm is the ONLY way to ward yourself from the evil spirit...er...man. Even though the grand majority of would be criminals just want the farking TV set! I hear...ALOT...of crazy reasons why conservatives NEED (not want) firearms. Most of science disproves it. So are we talking science or fantasy? "The continual attacks...." blah blah blah. Let's dispense with bullshit. Since bullshit goes both ways. You don't want the bullshit, fine. Here's bullshit: That conservatives have this...HUGE...distrust of moderates and liberals, and even the US Government. But, and this is a big BUT, they demand unconditional trust from all these entities back at them. Hate to say it, but trust is a two way street. Conservatives don't trust others, the others don't trust conservatives. Don't like all those firearm laws? That's a pretty real display of that distrust. Want less firearm laws? Find ways to instill more trust. Since all those 'first time gun offenders' moments before the jury read the verdict, were considered 'honest and law abiding' citizens with guns. Again, you want to dispense with the bullshit, it goes both ways!

epiphiny43 -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/8/2015 7:58:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech quote: ORIGINAL: joether Every piece of technology has two uses: Something that improves humanity, and something that destroys it. With 3D printing coming in to existence, all manner of things could be produced. Some of it, that helps ease the suffering on people's lives. I know of one medical patient whom got a plastic plating designed specifically for their head. In another example, one engineer created a low cost printer that makes artificial limbs for people in Africa whom are victims of anti-personnel mines. But to print firearm parts, feels like a destructive use of the technology. Yes, its 'neat' and 'curious' to see such parts handle the sort of stresses firearms are subjected to over a long period of time. And I'm always for improvement in technology. But how does this technology really improve the lives of people? Firearms in America are already pathetically easy to obtain. This device and others like it serve the criminal world great, by creating weapons 'off the radar' from established manufactures. Just because we have the power and knowledge to do it.....should we do it? Devices like this one will eventually be either heavily restricted or ban all together. Once the Firearm Industry starts to loose money on sales, they will push Congress to form such laws. That or some well known politician is killed with either some or all the parts created using a device like this one. The gentlemen in the video have good intentions. Unfortunately it doesn't take to much imagination how these tools can be used for the wrong reasons and remain under the radar. Sorry, but devices like this have been on the market as large industrial machines for at least 20 years. The home hobbyist version that one, and only one, company has advertised as capable of making firearms parts does not change the fact that CNC machining is a common and prevalent technology. Banning something because it MIGHT be used to make something dangerous is rather paranoid in the extreme. By that same logic we would be banning things like: Gasoline because it can be used to make hyperbaric bombs Pressure cookers because they can be part of an IED Cellphones because they can be used as a remote bomb trigger. Soap because it is an ingredient in making some plastic explosives Plumbing tools because they can be used to make pipe bombs and firearms and silencers for firearms Screwdrivers and crow bars because they can be used as a weapon or for breaking and entering crimes. Low power radio/receiver devices because they might be used in a bomb carrying drone aircraft. Diesel fuel and fertilizer as they can be used to make explosive devices. Drain cleaner because it can be used to manufacture explosives. Charcoal because it is an ingredient to make black powder explosives Another point I see as shown in that published video is that no one is going under the radar but demonstrating a product they wish to sell in an extremely public venue. People who hunt, people who view firearms as a hobby, and people that collect firearms, don't do so "under the radar" but right out in public along with other people with the same interests. The nonsensical paranoia that would have us believe that anyone with skill to use a firearm or owns a firearm is instantly transformed into a slavering maniac truly gets tiresome. Oh, the slavering maniacs do exist. But handing someone a firearm is not what makes one a homicidal antisocial murderer. Excuse my rant a bit. The continual attacks on a law abiding segment of the population are irritating, to say the least. Attacking civil liberties out of fear has led to many abuses in the past. The anti-gun rants sound so much like the rants of yesteryear fringe groups wanting miscegenation laws and classification of homosexuality as a crime make me cringe. Less because of the subject of the rants but because the concept of legislating fear into repression of freedoms sounds so much like tyranny. . . . Why should we test in making something that doesn't advance humanity? If what you say is true, there is no point for this device. . . . I keep hearing the echo from: "Only someone who's been to College could say something that dumb." And Still you are blind and deaf to the reality. The devices are here, have been here and won't go away. NO tool using mind ever forgets or won't use an effective tool. Learning, like boiling an egg, isn't reversible. Only the few, damaged by ideology and faith, can be Amish. If there really was comprehension of the technologies and their true results, you'd see they are a serious realization to Progressive goals and desires, the democratization of production and supply. The localization of production and design is the necessary counterpart of localizing energy generation. An actual counter to the concentration of power, energy, wealth and production that has only accelerated since the start of the Industrial Revolution. Interconnectivity only has meaning if concepts and ideas can be realized by individuals or small groups and communities. Multi-nationals are by design repressive and expansive. Much like organ cancers. Any disruptive technology scares the panties off some. Only the true intelligences see where the opportunities lie. Everyone else follows once the trail blazers show a path. This has already become an irreversible flood of humans towards these technologies, Keep Up!

MercTech -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/8/2015 8:01:22 AM)
Ok, no new tech unless it advances humanity... like that insidious device that was predicted to destroy civilization called the printing press. If we are only allowed to experiment with things that will "advance humanity"; who decides? I'm reminded of the Luddite movement that introduced the term "sabotage" into the vocabulary from their penchant for throwing shoes into mechanical weaving machines. A programmable milling machine priced for the hobby market is still a nifty piece of tech with many uses. And, if we go down the regulatory path where we ban things that MIGHT be used to make something you are afraid of; you would not have things like this available to the public: http://torchmate.com/how-to-choose?gclid=CjwKEAiAg_CnBRDc1N_wuoCiwyESJABpBuMXQw4pUz0efxUb9fmbbm6eY9BdW1wIPkYwh3Lm43IrgxoCYRzw_wcB http://www.tormach.com/tormach_pcnc_mills.html?gclid=CjwKEAiAg_CnBRDc1N_wuoCiwyESJABpBuMX7WP7SJCZUkwoB3ZQesRevLNwZzz-0QfyIwVyACH__RoCYT_w_wcB

Aylee -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/8/2015 1:03:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech Ok, no new tech unless it advances humanity... like that insidious device that was predicted to destroy civilization called the printing press. If we are only allowed to experiment with things that will "advance humanity"; who decides? I'm reminded of the Luddite movement that introduced the term "sabotage" into the vocabulary from their penchant for throwing shoes into mechanical weaving machines. A programmable milling machine priced for the hobby market is still a nifty piece of tech with many uses. And, if we go down the regulatory path where we ban things that MIGHT be used to make something you are afraid of; you would not have things like this available to the public: http://torchmate.com/how-to-choose?gclid=CjwKEAiAg_CnBRDc1N_wuoCiwyESJABpBuMXQw4pUz0efxUb9fmbbm6eY9BdW1wIPkYwh3Lm43IrgxoCYRzw_wcB http://www.tormach.com/tormach_pcnc_mills.html?gclid=CjwKEAiAg_CnBRDc1N_wuoCiwyESJABpBuMX7WP7SJCZUkwoB3ZQesRevLNwZzz-0QfyIwVyACH__RoCYT_w_wcB As far as I know, people with metal working stuff in their home shops can already make their own firearms. These printing machines just make it faster. In fact, I may have all the stuff to do so except for the milling machine. And those can be rented, I believe.

epiphiny43 -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/8/2015 2:16:28 PM)
Small workshops, home or garage size, have been making firearms since before the US Revolution. Afghanistan market metal workers with only hand tools have been hacking working AK47s from scrap car parts for well over a generation, a local weapons building tradition going back to before the British invasion of India and the larger area. People who know nothing about technology and the physical sciences or the crafts of the Industrial Age simply embarrass themself. But can vote!

Kirata -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/8/2015 8:54:32 PM)
It's not just technology that troubles progressive moonbats, it's science too. Anything that might risk exposing a reality at odds with their notions of "social justice" has to be suppressed, and first on the list is that cranky idea of freedom. Let’s give up on academic freedom... No academic question is ever “free” from political realities. If our university community opposes racism, sexism, and heterosexism, why should we put up with research that counters our goals simply in the name of “academic freedom”? Source: The Harvard Crimson K.

MercTech -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/9/2015 6:42:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee As far as I know, people with metal working stuff in their home shops can already make their own firearms. These printing machines just make it faster. In fact, I may have all the stuff to do so except for the milling machine. And those can be rented, I believe. Spot on. You grok the reason I think banning a "gun making machine" is playing silly buggers. Now, if you have really good hand-eye coordination and a steady hand; a die grinder makes a wonderful milling machine.

Sanity -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/9/2015 9:30:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee As far as I know, people with metal working stuff in their home shops can already make their own firearms. These printing machines just make it faster. In fact, I may have all the stuff to do so except for the milling machine. And those can be rented, I believe. Spot on. You grok the reason I think banning a "gun making machine" is playing silly buggers. Now, if you have really good hand-eye coordination and a steady hand; a die grinder makes a wonderful milling machine. I am sure you are aware how vises, clamps and jigs can help an unsteady hand and poor hand-eye coordination immensely

Sanity -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/9/2015 9:31:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata It's not just technology that troubles progressive moonbats, it's science too. Anything that might risk exposing a reality at odds with their notions of "social justice" has to be suppressed, and first on the list is that cranky idea of freedom. Let’s give up on academic freedom... No academic question is ever “free” from political realities. If our university community opposes racism, sexism, and heterosexism, why should we put up with research that counters our goals simply in the name of “academic freedom”? Source: The Harvard Crimson K. Why do you call them progressive when they are clearly not

joether -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/9/2015 10:12:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: epiphiny43 And Still you are blind and deaf to the reality. The devices are here, have been here and won't go away. NO tool using mind ever forgets or won't use an effective tool. Learning, like boiling an egg, isn't reversible. Only the few, damaged by ideology and faith, can be Amish. Yes, VX is a very deadly gas. Created to...KILL HUMANS. That assumes you know what a human is and isn't. Since its an arm like a gun, shouldn't it be readily available? Since it only takes a chemical process, and all the elements that make it up are freely available; shouldn't it be allowed to mix? The answer is 'no', because reasonable people understand what would happen if some insane or terrorist-like mind were to get a hold of it. Its a chemical agent I wish us humans could un-learn. You apparently, would desire this stuff to be freely available without penalty. There are devices, compounds, and objects we do not allow people to have, for one reason or another. For most people, they can understand why it would be restricted at best and ban at worst. But you dont. So the problem is not the rest of society; its you! quote: ORIGINAL: epiphiny43 If there really was comprehension of the technologies and their true results, you'd see they are a serious realization to Progressive goals and desires, the democratization of production and supply. The localization of production and design is the necessary counterpart of localizing energy generation. An actual counter to the concentration of power, energy, wealth and production that has only accelerated since the start of the Industrial Revolution. Interconnectivity only has meaning if concepts and ideas can be realized by individuals or small groups and communities. Multi-nationals are by design repressive and expansive. Much like organ cancers. Ah, now we have the conspiracy argument being made here. That all these forces are conspiring to do some great evil, but you alone, are 'on to them'! If this device could make firearms. And the firearms were stable for a few hundred shots fired, it would be a stable platform. Two things: First, early productions of firearm parts and whole scale productions, were only good until 20-30 rounds were fired. Second, technology is constantly improving. The use of plastics and metals, together, to form better structured objects that can handle greater levels of stresses of one kind or another. So, they have some ground to over come right now. But based on the science and engineering, its not impossible. Whether its practical, remains to be seen. quote: ORIGINAL: epiphiny43 Any disruptive technology scares the panties off some. Only the true intelligences see where the opportunities lie. Everyone else follows once the trail blazers show a path. This has already become an irreversible flood of humans towards these technologies, Keep Up! Evidently your one of those 'intelligence' that forgot the human part of the whole equation: ETHICS. Being able to create something new, does bring up the question....should we? Yes, we can create anti matter under the right laboratory conditions, but only in very small amounts. Should we create a couple tons of it on planet Earth, in one location? Under your 'thinking', yes, we should do this. Not bothering to ask the question "What could happen" and try answering it. Gun nuts do not stop and consider things fully. That is what separates them from Gun Owners in this nation. Gun Owners tend to be pretty sensible and reasonable individuals. They can understand how this sort of technology can get out of hand very quickly. When it does explode, it will be VERY violent and costly. The politics of 'firearm ownership' will take a radical shift towards Gun Controllers in the nation. Something Gun Owners would really not like. Concern Citizens (the group between Gun Owners and Gun Controllers) would be most susceptible to government regulation to either restrict or ban the technology all together. So don't try to pass off your intelligence and 'thought process' here. Its clear you do know what the fuck your babbling about. There is more to science than just discovering things. Scientists do things with consideration of what they are doing, *NOT* the conservative philosophy of "The Ends Justify The Means!".

Kirata -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/9/2015 10:33:01 AM)
Its clear you do know what the fuck your [sic] babbling about. Freud would be amused. K.

Aylee -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/9/2015 11:42:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Its clear you do know what the fuck your [sic] babbling about. Freud would be amused. K. I am trying to figure out why he is worked up about whether or not we should make a couple tons of anti-matter when it would be FAr cheaper to collect it from the Van Allen belt. And the chemicals that make up VX gas do NOT just randomly come together. Ya kinda have to work on it. While it can be done at home, I would suggest special clothing. Over all, I get the impression that he does not work with his hands at all. Which I suppose makes a sort of sense when you believe that only the Hoi Polloi would sink to such levels.

joether -> RE: A gun making thread... (3/9/2015 12:10:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata Its clear you do know what the fuck your [sic] babbling about. Freud would be amused. Oh such a tiny little thought. Did your mom and dad give you help with that? You don't know Freud to well either. That you cant challenge any of my points, once again, shows you have nothing decent to talk about. Lets see, that makes 439 moments you 'tried' to challenge my viewpoints on something with 'shit' like this of yours; and totally failed. At least your a consistent failure! [:D]

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