quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
Again...harmful only when that belief system is accompanied by actions imposed on those outside the dynamic. But, even your own author stated that to deny that "politically incorrect" beliefs exist in all of us is naive. That the important thing is to be able to consciously override these beliefs when dealing with the world at large.

While I agree with the author, I disagree with your interpretation. I don't think the inferior frontal gyrus works quite the way you're thinking.

While correlation does not imply causation our intuitions never got that memo, as such all sorts of dumb ideas come up. There's a portion of the brain to suppress the ideas which we know aren't true but if one does consider them true, It doesn't kick in.

I'm not re-interpreting anything your author said. I quoted him directly...these are his words, not mine.

"We just have to learn to become aware and be willing to acknowledge our own biases and then consciously override them. Denial and professed racial color-blindness only makes things worse."

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
While I agree with the author, I disagree with your interpretation.

I'm not re-interpreting anything your author said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I quoted him directly...these are his words, not mine.

"We just have to learn to become aware and be willing to acknowledge our own biases and then consciously override them. Denial and professed racial color-blindness only makes things worse."

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
While I agree with the author, I disagree with your interpretation.

I'm not re-interpreting anything your author said.

We're always interpreting, that's the only way to get meaning out of these funny squiggles.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
I quoted him directly...these are his words, not mine.

"We just have to learn to become aware and be willing to acknowledge our own biases and then consciously override them. Denial and professed racial color-blindness only makes things worse."

This isn't saying that a philosophy of male supremacy is a good thing, or an ok thing. It's saying the opposite.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

I think what we have seen over the course of this thread is the conflation of several ideas. Generally speaking, people tend to do this, but it's worth teasing them out into separate sections to clarify matters somewhat.

Male supremacy is fundamentally the idea that men as a class, can dominate women as a class.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
FOR HER. Some roleplay but when you are doing tease and denial for months on end, uh...you try it, tell me if it feels like roleplay.
Some people live it, they have daily protocols and rituals. You are bedroom only so it is beyond your comprehension in some ways understandably.

I think right along this thread has mostly been about terminology confusion.

Nobodies saying that her lifestyle isn't real, calling something roleplay isn't meant to diminish the dynamic between the people involved. It is meant to differentiate it from a worldview since the belief system that natural order dictates the supremacy of one sex over the other is a harmful worldview.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko
FOR HER. Some roleplay but when you are doing tease and denial for months on end, uh...you try it, tell me if it feels like roleplay.
Some people live it, they have daily protocols and rituals. You are bedroom only so it is beyond your comprehension in some ways understandably.

I think right along this thread has mostly been about terminology confusion.

Nobodies saying that her lifestyle isn't real, calling something roleplay isn't meant to diminish the dynamic between the people involved. It is meant to differentiate it from a worldview since the belief system that natural order dictates the supremacy of one sex over the other is a harmful worldview.

Not to mention that for many, role play is role fulfillment to them.

I have known women who believe that they and/or other women are "sluts" for enjoying sex, even in a monogamous situation, with their own husbands. They have internalized an ugly message that was thrust upon them non-consensually, and in many cases by spurned or vindictive, immature males when they were coming of age or as a young adult.

(I am not speaking about those submissives or kinksters, both male and female alike, who toss about this term provocatively among themselves.)

Furthermore, I know African-Americans who are deeply offended when other African-Americans call them the n-word; it's not a joking or endearing term, and them's fighting words. . . for which they must "consciously override" the impulse to punch the offender in the face.

To claim that one's idiosyncratic worldview does not or won't ever spill over into other areas of one's and others' lives, is the epitome of naiveté.

DreamLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And when...and if...people are NOT able t consciously override their beliefs and therefore take actions that are harmful, there are laws to deal with that.

I'm curious though...what parts of your beliefs that go into your D/s dynamic have spilled over into your life outside the dynamic?

You're asking the wrong person about this. I am not a Supremacist, nor do I believe that Dominants are superior to switches or submissives.

We all have our strengths and weaknesses. An inferior being hardly has enough personal power to make a bona fide power exchange with a superior being. Believing otherwise would just be a farce.

DreamLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
Many people in this thread are equating supremacy with superiority. I think that is the main rub. It is one way the word is used (supreme pizza, for example, it not inherently more powerful than meat lovers), despite dictionary definitions, and therefore, they are riled against it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
I was, until I read the definition for myself, and decided that it works for this, exactly as written, and does not cause or exacerbate any harmful sexist thoughts or behaviors.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4793368
Obviously prejudice does NOT apply to treating the sexes differently, if you have developed your manners of treating them differently based on experiences, and are willing to be flexible for individuals.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_correlation
Illusory correlation is the phenomenon of perceiving a relationship between variables (typically people, events, or behaviors) even when no such relationship exists. A common example of this phenomenon would be when people form false associations between membership in a statistical minority group and rare (typically negative) behaviors as variables that are novel or salient tend to capture the attention.[1] This is one way stereotypes form and endure.[2][3] Hamilton & Rose (1980) found that stereotypes can lead people to expect certain groups and traits to fit together, and then to overestimate the frequency with which these correlations actually occur.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And when...and if...people are NOT able t consciously override their beliefs and therefore take actions that are harmful, there are laws to deal with that.

I'm curious though...what parts of your beliefs that go into your D/s dynamic have spilled over into your life outside the dynamic?

You're asking the wrong person about this. I am not a Supremacist, nor do I believe that Dominants are superior to switches or submissives.

We all have our strengths and weaknesses. An inferior being hardly has enough personal power to make a bona fide power exchange with a superior being. Believing otherwise would just be a farce.

DreamLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
Many people in this thread are equating supremacy with superiority. I think that is the main rub. It is one way the word is used (supreme pizza, for example, it not inherently more powerful than meat lovers), despite dictionary definitions, and therefore, they are riled against it.

Actually the name is a statement that it's the greatest, the best of pizzas. In that case it's just a marketing gimmick and isn't taken seriously also no one cares about pizza equality.

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes
I was, until I read the definition for myself, and decided that it works for this, exactly as written, and does not cause or exacerbate any harmful sexist thoughts or behaviors.

quote:

Second if you're making reference to the other thread:

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4793368
Obviously prejudice does NOT apply to treating the sexes differently, if you have developed your manners of treating them differently based on experiences, and are willing to be flexible for individuals.

It's glaring sexism. Claiming it's not sexism because you make exceptions is no different from "I have a black friend so I can't be racist".

quote:

You also claim "based on experiences", everyone thinks that, even the people wearing white hoods claiming that a black person is 3/5th's of a human being think that.

quote:

The problem is that correlation usually is not causation:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_correlation
Illusory correlation is the phenomenon of perceiving a relationship between variables (typically people, events, or behaviors) even when no such relationship exists. A common example of this phenomenon would be when people form false associations between membership in a statistical minority group and rare (typically negative) behaviors as variables that are novel or salient tend to capture the attention.[1] This is one way stereotypes form and endure.[2][3] Hamilton & Rose (1980) found that stereotypes can lead people to expect certain groups and traits to fit together, and then to overestimate the frequency with which these correlations actually occur.

How it Works

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel
I think right along this thread has mostly been about terminology confusion.

Nobodies saying that her lifestyle isn't real, calling something roleplay isn't meant to diminish the dynamic between the people involved. It is meant to differentiate it from a worldview since the belief system that natural order dictates the supremacy of one sex over the other is a harmful worldview.

Not to mention that for many, role play is role fulfillment to them.

I have known women who believe that they and/or other women are "sluts" for enjoying sex, even in a monogamous situation, with their own husbands. They have internalized an ugly message that was thrust upon them non-consensually, and in many cases by spurned or vindictive, immature males when they were coming of age or as a young adult.

(I am not speaking about those submissives or kinksters, both male and female alike, who toss about this term provocatively among themselves.)

Furthermore, I know African-Americans who are deeply offended when other African-Americans call them the n-word; it's not a joking or endearing term, and them's fighting words. . . for which they must "consciously override" the impulse to punch the offender in the face.

To claim that one's idiosyncratic worldview does not or won't ever spill over into other areas of one's and others' lives, is the epitome of naiveté.

DreamLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

I think what we have seen over the course of this thread is the conflation of several ideas. Generally speaking, people tend to do this, but it's worth teasing them out into separate sections to clarify matters somewhat.

Male supremacy is fundamentally the idea that men as a class, can dominate women as a class.

Many people in this thread are equating supremacy with superiority. I think that is the main rub. It is one way the word is used (supreme pizza, for example, it not inherently more powerful than meat lovers), despite dictionary definitions, and therefore, they are riled against it.

I was, until I read the definition for myself, and decided that it works for this, exactly as written, and does not cause or exacerbate any harmful sexist thoughts or behaviors.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

But the question is not just concerned with those beliefs. The question concerns any D/s beliefs.

Then how would your question about how others practice their D/s dynamics which does not involve their Weltanschauung of Supremacist beliefs be relevant?

In fact, I don't see how my practice of D/s has to do with grouping whole segments of the population categorically.

I am equally suspect of anybody who calls themselves by any label. I see the individual first and then try to ascertain his motivations. Whether he says he's a slave, a slut, a fetishist, a kinkster or BDSM bottom, a switch, or a secretly submissive and/or switchy Dom is up for grabs. It's a subjective process on my part, but worldview doesn't enter into the picture. I have a personal preference not to deal with masochists because we would not be a match, but I don't judge whether masochists or sadists are inferior or superior to one another or to me -- they're not on my intimate radar irrespective of their propensity for sadomasochism.

The difference is that orientations cannot be readily identified by unalterable (under ordinary circumstances) physical characteristics such as the gender or the ethnic heritage you were born with that are being pre-judged according to how supreme or ultimate a pizza slice it belongs to.

DreamLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And when...and if...people are NOT able t consciously override their beliefs and therefore take actions that are harmful, there are laws to deal with that.

I'm curious though...what parts of your beliefs that go into your D/s dynamic have spilled over into your life outside the dynamic?

You're asking the wrong person about this. I am not a Supremacist, nor do I believe that Dominants are superior to switches or submissives.

We all have our strengths and weaknesses. An inferior being hardly has enough personal power to make a bona fide power exchange with a superior being. Believing otherwise would just be a farce.

DreamLady

But the question is not just concerned with those beliefs. The question concerns any D/s beliefs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

But the question is not just concerned with those beliefs. The question concerns any D/s beliefs.

Then how would your question about how others practice their D/s dynamics which does not involve their Weltanschauung of Supremacist beliefs be relevant?

In fact, I don't see how my practice of D/s has to do with grouping whole segments of the population categorically.

I am equally suspect of anybody who calls themselves by any label. I see the individual first and then try to ascertain his motivations. Whether he says he's a slave, a slut, a fetishist, a kinkster or BDSM bottom, a switch, or a secretly submissive and/or switchy Dom is up for grabs. It's a subjective process on my part, but worldview doesn't enter into the picture. I have a personal preference not to deal with masochists because we would not be a match, but I don't judge whether masochists or sadists are inferior or superior to one another or to me -- they're not on my intimate radar irrespective of their propensity for sadomasochism.

The difference is that orientations cannot be readily identified by unalterable (under ordinary circumstances) physical characteristics such as the gender or the ethnic heritage you were born with that are being pre-judged according to how supreme or ultimate a pizza slice it belongs to.

DreamLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: UnholyBear

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

And when...and if...people are NOT able t consciously override their beliefs and therefore take actions that are harmful, there are laws to deal with that.

I'm curious though...what parts of your beliefs that go into your D/s dynamic have spilled over into your life outside the dynamic?

You're asking the wrong person about this. I am not a Supremacist, nor do I believe that Dominants are superior to switches or submissives.

We all have our strengths and weaknesses. An inferior being hardly has enough personal power to make a bona fide power exchange with a superior being. Believing otherwise would just be a farce.

DreamLady

But the question is not just concerned with those beliefs. The question concerns any D/s beliefs.

Yet don't some of the beliefs a person holds on life and themselves in general also applies to how they employ those beliefs in a D/s situation?

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

*shrugs* They are not the same word.

The dictionaries I've looked at SOMETIMES use them as synonyms, sometimes do not. And even synonyms are not the exact same, much of the time. They have nuances.

Frankly, I think it's important to note these nuances, especially before attacking someone's belief system. The OP has said she is speaking specifically of power, not a state of being "better than."

That's enough for me to give her her kink, without crying foul.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Because the initial thrust against the O.P.s belief system was that somehow those specific beliefs of hers...practiced within her dynamic...cannot be contained or, as Mr. Williams (GotSteel's author) put it, consciously overridden when dealing with the public.

A male-led relationship or female led relationship? Fine. But a male-led relationship involving a belief in male supremacy? A female -led relationship involving female supremacy? Nope. Those beliefs cannot be contained. A relationship involving a partner of a different race? Great! So long as that relationship is not built on a belief that one race is better at leading/following within a relationship. Again, because that belief cannot be contained or consciously overridden.