RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (Full Version)

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slvemike4u -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 8:32:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Aylee what it missing from your post is an acceptance that the law provides us with a socially agreed and acceptable list of activities that are acceptable. NAMBLA members promote pedophilia, a crime as well as being repugnant. Footballers (or any one else) who assault their partners are committing the crime of assault. Cruelty to animals is also a crime (at least it is here, I am uncertain whether it's a criminal offence in the US).

It is appropriate that we respect the lawful views of others. They have their right to their views just as you and I have a right to ours. We aren't obliged to agree with them, we can even agitate against them publicly if we so wish, but we should respect others' rights to hold them as long as they are lawful. It makes for a harmonious society but perhaps social harmony isn't your thing.




Thank you tweak....but I thought there was a few other things missing from her post...any sign of intelligence,common sense and a sense of proportion
Other than that I had no problems with the post,Aylee herself or her insistence on a closed minded,narrow way of looking at the world.

seeing where it came from I took no offence to the "suggestion" that I would seek common ground with scumbags from Nambla.




slvemike4u -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 8:35:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

What I find troubling,what I found startling and asked in my second post in this particular exchange was...in essence...is that your default setting ?
Because I START from a point where I am wanting to find common ground and a basis for respect,the way Aylee made it sound that's simply too much bother and not worth the effort.
Now if I am missing something I'm all ears....if there is a way to walk back this particular cat,have at it.



If that is what you want to do with your time and energy, have fun.

My original statement was:
quote:



What is this insane-vein-popping determination that we SHOULD go around tolerant of everyone's beliefs. Sheesh. There is a waste of time and life.


I believe that there is right and wrong or some might say, good and evil.

If you want to spend time with NAMBLA members looking for common ground and a basis for respect, enjoy your coffee together.

College football players (or other humans) that hit their girlfriends and break face bones? Sure, you two may like the same professional baseball team! Woot.

Folks who bully/pick on/make fun of the developmentally disabled? Please keep inviting them to your house. Freedom of association.

Men that kick their dogs? Maybe you both prefer cats.

-----------

I could continue with my this list, but I only have a few more minutes before I must go make lunches.

In each of those examples, the person thinks their beliefs are correct. I don't. I think that they are bad. And I see no reason to spend time or energy looking for common ground or a reason to respect them. In fact, I want nothing to do with them, would not have them in my house.

But you are free to do whatever you want with your time and energy. That is a personal choice thing.


well said, enjoy lunch [:)]

Of course you would never object to a poster from the right suggesting a poster from the left enjoy their coffee with NAMBLA scum....you only upbraid posters from the left....lol

But please do continue instructing those of us on the left in discourse and civility......I'm probably not the only poster laughing my ass off.




Aylee -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 10:07:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Aylee what it missing from your post is an acceptance that the law provides us with a socially agreed and acceptable list of activities that are acceptable. NAMBLA members promote pedophilia, a crime as well as being repugnant. Footballers (or any one else) who assault their partners are committing the crime of assault. Cruelty to animals is also a crime (at least it is here, I am uncertain whether it's a criminal offence in the US).

It is appropriate that we respect the lawful views of others. They have their right to their views just as you and I have a right to ours. We aren't obliged to agree with them, we can even agitate against them publicly if we so wish, but we should respect others' rights to hold them as long as they are lawful. It makes for a harmonious society but perhaps social harmony isn't your thing.





Screw that crap.

You can do that if you want to, but that is a "Hell NO!" for me.

Lawful views:

All women are whores.

Blacks are inferior.

Mexicans are stupid.

Men are worthless.

The Irish are drunks.

Gays are going to burn in hell.

TGs are messed up in the head.

All Italians are in the mafia.

`````

None of those statements or the people that would make them or think deserves my respect. They also deserve none of my time or energy. Scorn is about as much as I can bring myself to devote.




Aylee -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 10:17:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

What I find troubling,what I found startling and asked in my second post in this particular exchange was...in essence...is that your default setting ?
Because I START from a point where I am wanting to find common ground and a basis for respect,the way Aylee made it sound that's simply too much bother and not worth the effort.
Now if I am missing something I'm all ears....if there is a way to walk back this particular cat,have at it.



If that is what you want to do with your time and energy, have fun.

My original statement was:
quote:



What is this insane-vein-popping determination that we SHOULD go around tolerant of everyone's beliefs. Sheesh. There is a waste of time and life.


I believe that there is right and wrong or some might say, good and evil.

If you want to spend time with NAMBLA members looking for common ground and a basis for respect, enjoy your coffee together.

College football players (or other humans) that hit their girlfriends and break face bones? Sure, you two may like the same professional baseball team! Woot.

Folks who bully/pick on/make fun of the developmentally disabled? Please keep inviting them to your house. Freedom of association.

Men that kick their dogs? Maybe you both prefer cats.

-----------

I could continue with my this list, but I only have a few more minutes before I must go make lunches.

In each of those examples, the person thinks their beliefs are correct. I don't. I think that they are bad. And I see no reason to spend time or energy looking for common ground or a reason to respect them. In fact, I want nothing to do with them, would not have them in my house.

But you are free to do whatever you want with your time and energy. That is a personal choice thing.


well said, enjoy lunch [:)]

Of course you would never object to a poster from the right suggesting a poster from the left enjoy their coffee with NAMBLA scum....you only upbraid posters from the left....lol

But please do continue instructing those of us on the left in discourse and civility......I'm probably not the only poster laughing my ass off.



You did say:

quote:

Because I START from a point where I am wanting to find common ground and a basis for respect


And you did agree with Tweak's belief that we need to respect ALL legal views. And their views are legal. Only taking action on those views is illegal.

It would make much more sense if you could just bring yourself to publicly or privately agree with me that some people, belief, and/or opinions do not deserve your time spent looking for reasons to respect them or find common ground.




slvemike4u -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 10:35:24 AM)

See,I assume that when I say something like that I am given the benefit of the doubt that such belief systems such as the KKK or especially NAMBLA are agreed to be outside the norm of human behavior and worthy of as much scorn as I can possibly express.

If that is not so,if we have to start every conversation with a boilerplate denouncing every whack job belief than I need to print up a disclaimer so as to save time....especially when illegal organizations are added to the mix


in light of what I just typed,perhaps you were due the same consideration [:)]




CreativeDominant -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 11:04:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

See,I assume that when I say something like that I am given the benefit of the doubt that such belief systems such as the KKK or especially NAMBLA are agreed to be outside the norm of human behavior and worthy of as much scorn as I can possibly express.

If that is not so,if we have to start every conversation with a boilerplate denouncing every whack job belief than I need to print up a disclaimer so as to save time....especially when illegal organizations are added to the mix


in light of what I just typed,perhaps you were due the same consideration [:)]
But...at least so far...neither organization is illegal. Nor are their beliefs. Acting upon certain ones of those beliefs is.




Aylee -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 11:10:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

See,I assume that when I say something like that I am given the benefit of the doubt that such belief systems such as the KKK or especially NAMBLA are agreed to be outside the norm of human behavior and worthy of as much scorn as I can possibly express.

If that is not so,if we have to start every conversation with a boilerplate denouncing every whack job belief than I need to print up a disclaimer so as to save time....especially when illegal organizations are added to the mix


in light of what I just typed,perhaps you were due the same consideration [:)]


I do tend to be rather literal. Boolean brain or something.

"Everyone's beliefs" means "everyone's beliefs," not just the ones I agree with. Hence my comments about it being a waste of time. But people have the freedom to waste their time however they want.

ETA:

There is no reason for a need to make a denouncement of scum. Just stop saying that you start with the belief that all opinions and such deserve the same respect. If you think about it, it actually shows a lack of respect, since you are not judging them on their merits.




thishereboi -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 2:37:06 PM)

Aww, I'm sorry she implied that and hurt your feelings. Perhaps next time you shouldn't try so hard to twist her words and she won't have any reason to respond in kind. Now I doubt you will understand but I doubt I am the only one who sees it.




thishereboi -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 2:39:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Aylee what it missing from your post is an acceptance that the law provides us with a socially agreed and acceptable list of activities that are acceptable. NAMBLA members promote pedophilia, a crime as well as being repugnant. Footballers (or any one else) who assault their partners are committing the crime of assault. Cruelty to animals is also a crime (at least it is here, I am uncertain whether it's a criminal offence in the US).

It is appropriate that we respect the lawful views of others. They have their right to their views just as you and I have a right to ours. We aren't obliged to agree with them, we can even agitate against them publicly if we so wish, but we should respect others' rights to hold them as long as they are lawful. It makes for a harmonious society but perhaps social harmony isn't your thing.





there was nothing unlawful about the shit phelps church pulled but there is no way in hell you are going to convince me I should respect their beliefs.




slvemike4u -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 2:40:59 PM)

Who the fuck said anything about hurt feelings ?
As far as what you doubt and don't doubt.....let me assure you I don't give a fuck.


Of course the "I don't give a fuck" thing can apply to most everything you post....so no worries,none at all.




Kirata -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 3:58:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

It is appropriate that we respect the lawful views of others. They have their right to their views just as you and I have a right to ours. We aren't obliged to agree with them, we can even agitate against them publicly if we so wish, but we should respect others' rights to hold them as long as they are lawful. It makes for a harmonious society but perhaps social harmony isn't your thing.

There is a not unsubtle difference between respecting the views of others, and respecting their right to hold them. One may very well not respect certain views, and still respect the person's right to hold them. The latter is required if we are to have a civil society. The former could only be required by an insane society.

K.




Kirata -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 4:03:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Who gets to decide what views are oppressive? And on what basis?

Aren't those the same questions cultural relativists ask?

They are asking them rhetorically. I don't view them as rhetorical questions.

K.




PeonForHer -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 4:08:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

There is a not unsubtle difference between respecting the views of others, and respecting their right to hold them. One may very well not respect certain views, and still respect the person's right to hold them. The latter is required if we are to have a civil society. The former could only be required by an insane society.



In general I'd agree. But I remember the first time that view was put to the test for me: when I met a man whose great uncle had died in a concentration camp. He worked for Bloom's, the famous London kosher restaurant that was just next door to the university where I was an undergrad at the time.

He held that the only way to stop such hideousness as the holocaust from happening again was to nip it in the bud - that is, by stopping the racist vibe right at the outset - in the street, in pubs, in the workplace. He also believed that 'You don't argue with these people, you just beat them up'. This was because such racist views were 'devoid of reason - and without reason, there's no ground on which you can have an argument'.




Kirata -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 4:23:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

'You don't argue with these people, you just beat them up'. This was because such racist views were 'devoid of reason - and without reason, there's no ground on which you can have an argument'.

The question, again, is who gets to decide? I do not subscribe to the notion that people whose views may be deemed to be held "without reason" should be punished. I find the idea repugnant, and certain to be dangerous in the hands of power.

K.






PeonForHer -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 4:38:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

'You don't argue with these people, you just beat them up'. This was because such racist views were 'devoid of reason - and without reason, there's no ground on which you can have an argument'.

The question, again, is who gets to decide? I do not subscribe to the notion that people whose views may be deemed to be held "without reason" should be punished. I find the idea repugnant, and certain to be dangerous in the hands of power.

K.





I don't think anybody gets to decide, K. The reality is that civil society only operates by coming to some never-very-comfortable accommodation with that sort of view on the fringes. If the much-maligned 'political correctness' has a benign purpose, this would be it.




Kirata -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 5:49:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

'You don't argue with these people, you just beat them up'. This was because such racist views were 'devoid of reason - and without reason, there's no ground on which you can have an argument'.

The question, again, is who gets to decide? I do not subscribe to the notion that people whose views may be deemed to be held "without reason" should be punished. I find the idea repugnant, and certain to be dangerous in the hands of power.


I don't think anybody gets to decide, K. The reality is that civil society only operates by coming to some never-very-comfortable accommodation with that sort of view on the fringes. If the much-maligned 'political correctness' has a benign purpose, this would be it.

In College and Hiding From Scary Ideas

At Brown University last Fall, a student group organized a debate between Jessica Valenti, founder of feminista.com, and Wendy McElroy, a libertarian. When Katherine Byron, a student member of Brown's Sexual Assault Task Force, learned that the term "rape culture" might come under critical examination in the debate, she became alarmed. Alarmed! One result of her alarm was a "safe space" for students upset by the talk.

The safe space, Ms. Byron explained, was intended to give people who might find comments "troubling" or "triggering," a place to recuperate. The room was equipped with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets and a video of frolicking puppies, as well as students and staff members trained to deal with trauma.

Brown is not alone.

Two weeks ago, students at Northwestern University marched to protest an article by Laura Kipnis, a professor in the university’s School of Communication. Professor Kipnis had criticized - O.K., ridiculed - what she called the sexual paranoia pervading campus life . . . The protesters carried mattresses and demanded that the administration condemn the essay. One student complained that Professor Kipnis was "erasing the very traumatic experience" of victims who spoke out.

Northwestern's president wasn't having it, and affirmed the university's committment to academic freedom. But not all schools have Northwestern's spine.

At Oxford University’s Christ Church college in November, the college censors (a "censor" being more or less the Oxford equivalent of an undergraduate dean) canceled a debate on abortion after campus feminists threatened to disrupt it because both would-be debaters were men...

A year and a half ago, a Hampshire College student group disinvited an Afrofunk band that had been attacked on social media for having too many white musicians; the vitriolic discussion had made students feel "unsafe"...

Last fall, the president of Smith College, Kathleen McCartney, apologized for causing students and faculty to be "hurt" when she failed to object to a racial epithet uttered by a fellow panel member at an alumnae event in New York. The offender was the free-speech advocate Wendy Kaminer, who had been arguing against the use of the euphemism "the n-word" when teaching American history or "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn."


"Why," the NY Times asks, "are students so eager to self-infantilize?" But maybe they're just being propagandized and employed as useful idiots to attack academic freedom and freedom of speech.

The theory that vulnerable students should be guaranteed psychological security has roots in a body of legal thought elaborated in the 1980s and 1990s and still read today. Feminist and anti-racist legal scholars argued that the First Amendment should not safeguard language that inflicted emotional injury through racist or sexist stigmatization...

In other words, any language, any debate, or even any research that someone might find "triggering" or "offensive" in the jargon of social justice theory. Thus, from Harvard...

Let’s give up on academic freedom in favor of justice

Yeah, no.

K.





slvemike4u -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 6:00:02 PM)

Not a comment on the post in its entirety,just a curious observation....Two men,and the way I read it two men only,debating the pro's and con's of abortion strikes me as more than odd.
Why set up such a discourse and fail to have a female on the panel ?




Kirata -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 6:00:11 PM)


Getting beat up poisoned for holding views "without reason" (the gall of some people).

Student admits to poisoning "mean" roommate

12-year old poisons mother for taking away iPhone

K.










Kirata -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 6:06:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

two men only,debating the pro's and con's of abortion strikes me as more than odd.

How would you feel about two female physicians debating the pros and cons of treating prostate cancer?

K.








DerangedUnit -> RE: News from the Society for the Perpetually Offended (3/23/2015 6:17:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The safe space, Ms. Byron explained, was intended to give people who might find comments "troubling" or "triggering," a place to recuperate. The room was equipped with cookies, coloring books, bubbles, Play-Doh, calming music, pillows, blankets and a video of frolicking puppies, as well as students and staff members trained to deal with trauma.




... currently coming to the realization I made my whole life a "safe space" (why did this have to be 30 minutes after dying my hair pink)




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