RE: Benevolent Sexism

RE: Benevolent Sexism (Full Version)

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crazyml -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/21/2015 4:31:22 PM)
Pah... of course this is as nonsensical a position to take as the one taken by those women fearing losers who rush to use the term "feminazi" at every available opportunity. I have no fucking idea why a good and reasonable person would be any more likely to hold the door for a woman than for a man. If you have any fucking self-respect you hold doors for anyone who is following you, and you offer your seat to anyone who is in greater need. Now if they throw that back into your face, you simply man up and accept that not everyone is as couth as you are, and you move on. You certainly don't carry the incident around in a backpack and use as a specious example of how the world has gone to shit and is dominated by feminazis. Fuck.

PeonForHer -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/21/2015 6:38:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml Pah... of course this is as nonsensical a position to take as the one taken by those women fearing losers who rush to use the term "feminazi" at every available opportunity. I have no fucking idea why a good and reasonable person would be any more likely to hold the door for a woman than for a man. If you have any fucking self-respect you hold doors for anyone who is following you, and you offer your seat to anyone who is in greater need. Now if they throw that back into your face, you simply man up and accept that not everyone is as couth as you are, and you move on. You certainly don't carry the incident around in a backpack and use as a specious example of how the world has gone to shit and is dominated by feminazis. Fuck. Hexactly.

Aylee -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/21/2015 6:48:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee I am not sure. I think that with sexism and racism and such it is "guilty and cannot prove yourself innocent." It is rather Kafkaesque anymore. [image]local://upfiles/235229/A003E81361014825A323543F91CC7ADF.jpg[/image] K. About this picture, it appears that both sides have a complete set of pieces, yet there's also extra black and white Queens. Why would there be extra queens? Is that sexist? In fact, I always thought chess itself was a bit sexist, since the Queen can move everywhere, while the King can only move one space at a time. [;)] Pawn promotion.

thishereboi -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/21/2015 7:30:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer FR Further to my comment, now lost in the dark recesses of this thread, on 'Oneupmanship': An example of 'benevolent sexism': My ex GF used to beat me at pool, regularly. After a while this began to piss me off mightily. So, borrowing the technique from Potter's books, I began to compliment her on her pool-playing. I ratcheted it up so that in the end I was laying it on with a trowel. At the point where I added the comment (said with full warmth, and no sarcastic tone whatsoever [vitally important]) "I love to see a woman doing something well!" - she cracked, and went at me with her pool stick. She'd read Potter's books. She knew when she was being 'ployed'. That was conscious. I'd guess 'benevolent sexism' is where it isn't conscious - where, especially, it's become part of ordinary every day custom. I get it: it's gentlemanly and nice to offer to carry a woman's bags and I'd still do it. But I read somewhere that one subtext of such an offer is 'I'm strong, you're weak, and don't you forget it'. I have to say I just don't understand it. If a guy, or girl for that matter, wants to help me with my bags or open a door for me I am grateful. I don't stop to try to see if there is a hidden meaning behind it. But then again I am also likely to open a door for people myself. Especially if I am at work and outside smoking. I've actually had men hesitate before going in and one who refused to. One man looked at me for a moment and then walked in, he then turned around and said it was the first time he had ever let a women open the door for him. Up until then I hadn't realized what a big deal it could be.

thishereboi -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/21/2015 7:32:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer So you didn't think that i was the one being the bitch in the example I gave - of the pool-playing and my complimenting my GF? Cos I sure did! see and I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assume she had asked for it. Must be the accent [8D]

thishereboi -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/21/2015 7:34:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee I am not sure. I think that with sexism and racism and such it is "guilty and cannot prove yourself innocent." It is rather Kafkaesque anymore. [image]local://upfiles/235229/A003E81361014825A323543F91CC7ADF.jpg[/image] K. About this picture, it appears that both sides have a complete set of pieces, yet there's also extra black and white Queens. Why would there be extra queens? Is that sexist? In fact, I always thought chess itself was a bit sexist, since the Queen can move everywhere, while the King can only move one space at a time. [;)] Poly chess?

crazyml -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/21/2015 8:23:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr Then, you aptly state that it is a hard-core feminazi position. This is a lie. The word "feminazi" was not used in the post that you are quoting. I thought this sort of misrepresentation was against TOS?

crazyml -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/21/2015 8:27:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr There are even a couple on this very site who have found themselves on my hide/block list rather than my telling them what true twat waffles I think they are (and thereby, no longer behaving like a gentleman). Michael[/color] Just a couple??? I was sure it would be many more than that. I wonder, if we counted up all the fucks given about being blocked by you, would we have enough for a wedding night?

dcnovice -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/21/2015 8:37:50 PM)
quote: If a guy, or girl for that matter, wants to help me with my bags or open a door for me I am grateful. I don't stop to try to see if there is a hidden meaning behind it. Same here. The one time I gave it a second thought was on a platform at Union Station, where I was huffing-and-puffing along with two big, present-filled bags in tow. A total stranger dashed over and offered to help. I accepted his aid gratefully, but I did worry inwardly, "Oh geez, I must have looked like hell!" When folks get riled up over who opens doors or stands up on trains, part of me wants to say, "I hear ya, but I really don't think a politeness epidemic is our major social ill these days."

sexyred1 -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/21/2015 9:07:57 PM)
I just got home from being out with friends. Everywhere I went, men and women opened doors as did I and my male and female friends. The original article is so ludicrous it doesn't even bear discussion. There is never enough human courtesy out in the world and why anyone would be insulted from courteous behavior makes me wonder about their self esteem issues Oh and I despise the word feminazi.

NookieNotes -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/22/2015 5:00:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer I get it: it's gentlemanly and nice to offer to carry a woman's bags and I'd still do it. But I read somewhere that one subtext of such an offer is 'I'm strong, you're weak, and don't you forget it'. LOL! So, If I offer to help a man put together an IKEA shelf, am I implying he is incapable? Or if I do the dishes instead of him, I am implying he is inferior? No. Sorry, I thought I was clear: It's in the motivation, or the culture behind it, if the motivation isn't conscious. ETA: Also, where it exists, it's not one or the other - it's ambiguous. It's not simply all benevolence, or all sexism, but a subtle mix. Sorry sweetie. That actually was sarcasm. Not aimed at you, personally. smiles quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer That is true benevolent sexism - a sub-branch of Oneupmanship (for which, see Stephen Potter's books and the film 'School for Scandal' starring Terry-Thomas and Ian Carmichael). It's the art of bigging them up so much they're nigh on goddesses; while at exactly the same time making them feel vaguely as though they're about as useful and impressive as delightful fluffy hamsters with severe learning challenges. This, will easily remove me from a life. I don't feel like competing with my lovers in such ways. Or my friends. If I am getting outperformed in something, then I accept it, rather than trying to cut someone down for being the better person (in that arena). quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Were you to bar women from the armed forces on the grounds that you believed they would leave their sentry post in order to make a dress out of the nearest clump of grass, then that probably is sexist and has little to do with the rules of social engagement. Oh! The picture in my mind! LOL! quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml I have no fucking idea why a good and reasonable person would be any more likely to hold the door for a woman than for a man. Courtship? quote: ORIGINAL: thishereboi I have to say I just don't understand it. If a guy, or girl for that matter, wants to help me with my bags or open a door for me I am grateful. I don't stop to try to see if there is a hidden meaning behind it. But then again I am also likely to open a door for people myself. Especially if I am at work and outside smoking. I've actually had men hesitate before going in and one who refused to. One man looked at me for a moment and then walked in, he then turned around and said it was the first time he had ever let a women open the door for him. Up until then I hadn't realized what a big deal it could be. Oh yes. It can be quite amusing. Ever bring a guy flowers? [8\|] quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice When folks get riled up over who opens doors or stands up on trains, part of me wants to say, "I hear ya, but I really don't think a politeness epidemic is our major social ill these days." Brilliant!

PeonForHer -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/22/2015 6:08:53 AM)
Sorry sweetie. That actually was sarcasm. Not aimed at you, personally. smiles quote: Gotcha. :-) quote: quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer That is true benevolent sexism - a sub-branch of Oneupmanship (for which, see Stephen Potter's books and the film 'School for Scandal' starring Terry-Thomas and Ian Carmichael). It's the art of bigging them up so much they're nigh on goddesses; while at exactly the same time making them feel vaguely as though they're about as useful and impressive as delightful fluffy hamsters with severe learning challenges. This, will easily remove me from a life. I don't feel like competing with my lovers in such ways. Or my friends. If I am getting outperformed in something, then I accept it, rather than trying to cut someone down for being the better person (in that arena). You'd need mine, and my GF's, sense of humour. It did really grate that she kept beating me at pool, though. On the other hand, she couldn't sew to save her life, whereas I was - and indeed still am - ace at it.

NookieNotes -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/22/2015 6:16:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer You'd need mine, and my GF's, sense of humour. It did really grate that she kept beating me at pool, though. On the other hand, she couldn't sew to save her life, whereas I was - and indeed still am - ace at it. Ah. Well, in humor, that's cool. smiles In all seriousness, though, i don't do that competition thing. I actually choose many people to spend time with BECAUSE they are better than me. Like, in detecting humor. [:D]

PeonForHer -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/22/2015 6:17:56 AM)
quote: I have to say I just don't understand it. If a guy, or girl for that matter, wants to help me with my bags or open a door for me I am grateful. I don't stop to try to see if there is a hidden meaning behind it. But then again I am also likely to open a door for people myself. Especially if I am at work and outside smoking. I've actually had men hesitate before going in and one who refused to. One man looked at me for a moment and then walked in, he then turned around and said it was the first time he had ever let a women open the door for him. Up until then I hadn't realized what a big deal it could be. I think that's the ordinary and most efficient way of going about things. It enables people to get through their day with the least friction against other people. Mind you, I do think there are people who make studies of such things in order the better to use them - often for better; but sometimes for worse. Re the first, it's pretty enlightening to talk to a graduate of one of the finishing schools over here, for instance: all you're really conscious of before they tell you is that, in some way, you feel better with them and you find them somehow charming. the second - they do not use 'Oneupmanship' tricks as jokes - they use them to get one over on you. I'll never forget sitting in a pub with a fellow ex-student who'd now gone into insurance-selling. Every last bit of 'manners' he'd learned was designed to 'conquer his target' (his own phrase). I felt that I'd met my first ever sociopath. Shudder.

PeonForHer -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/22/2015 6:22:34 AM)
quote: Oh yes. It can be quite amusing. Ever bring a guy flowers? Oh seriously, women should do that. He opens the door to her and sees her face surrounded by flowers and this will do for her face what make up alone never could. The whole image is going to be etched on his brain - a beautiful image. It's a great move.

dcnovice -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/22/2015 6:33:41 AM)
quote: It did really grate that she kept beating me at pool, though. On the other hand, she couldn't sew to save her life, whereas I was - and indeed still am - ace at it. Girl: "Can you bake a pie?" Boy: "No." Girl: "Neither can I." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfHBPusZg6E

Nthrall -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/22/2015 6:59:20 AM)
This goes to the heart of what makes D/s relationships good (if not better), i.e. roles are divided. I'm only familiar with M/f, but I expect F/m and same-sex divisions of roles have advantages too. Not getting the mood right for sex damages many relationships, but if one partner can decide "when" there is no need to negotiate. In M/f when the M has recharged the f can (in my experience) be made equally ready with just a look. It is clearly useful to have a default procedure for getting through a doorway. Holding the door open/letting someone go through first is doing them a favour. I do this for most folks, but especially for women, because I am straight and like getting feedback from women. Incidentally, the comeback to the pregnant woman who refused an offered seat should be, "Yes, but you're standing for two". I despise the frequent TV scenes of men giving women their jackets, and having nothing but shirts themselves. This is a sexist statement that women are weaker, whereas actually they're not (in many ways including handling cold and pain). M/f fits the stereotype - which can have advantages, e.g. It seems most women prefer men to be taller than them. Chivalry connotes service to a lady, whereas some f subs give service to a Master. I used to be able to tell one sub that I practically lived with to hold my shopping bags/basket when we were out shopping. Being a sub she automatically obeyed, then cursed herself as she found she was carrying them for me. It worked every time. Vive la difference!

PeonForHer -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/22/2015 7:00:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dcnovice quote: It did really grate that she kept beating me at pool, though. On the other hand, she couldn't sew to save her life, whereas I was - and indeed still am - ace at it. Girl: "Can you bake a pie?" Boy: "No." Girl: "Neither can I." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfHBPusZg6E It's a classic. ;-)

PeonForHer -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/22/2015 7:04:08 AM)
quote: I despise the frequent TV scenes of men giving women their jackets, and having nothing but shirts themselves. This is a sexist statement that women are weaker, whereas actually they're not (in many ways including handling cold and pain). I see that. However, in real life, so many women go out in clothes that won't keep them either warm or dry.

Kittenluv954 -> RE: Benevolent Sexism (3/22/2015 7:19:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crazyml quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr There are even a couple on this very site who have found themselves on my hide/block list rather than my telling them what true twat waffles I think they are (and thereby, no longer behaving like a gentleman). Michael[/color] Just a couple??? I was sure it would be many more than that. I wonder, if we counted up all the fucks given about being blocked by you, would we have enough for a wedding night? dont let him fool ya, hes got everyone who doesnt think like him on hide. better to build a bubble to live in when you dont have the coping mechanisms to deal with differing views dontcha know. and yeah, i would venture to say none of us give a damn. hes probably wondering how the thread is this many pages when he only sees two posts.

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