RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (Full Version)

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thompsonx -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/7/2015 3:37:11 PM)


ORIGINAL: bounty44

given a choice between ted cruz saying there is, and you saying there are not. I am going to go with ted cruz.

This is from computerworld.

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2879083/southern-california-edison-it-workers-beyond-furious-over-h-1b-replacements.html



your question presumes that your "there is no shortage of high tech American workers" is a true statement. see my above response. but the essence of the question is, "how does one high tech job help to create 1.8 jobs?" I don't know the answer to that.

Why did you state as fact which you now admit your ignorance?



I would simply refer you to the study ted cruz is referencing.

Nothing in that link referenced a study.

any other interpretation of what he has said is essentially absurdly cynical (cruz wants to bring in foreigners so they can work for less and displace American workers) to the point of being fiction.

This link will take you to a document re: this issue.

http://www.cfr.org/united-states/federation-american-immigrant-reform-myth-skilled-worker-shortage/p26643





bounty44 -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/8/2015 10:50:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

given a choice between ted cruz saying there is, and you saying there are not. I am going to go with ted cruz.

This is from computerworld.

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2879083/southern-california-edison-it-workers-beyond-furious-over-h-1b-replacements.html



Unfortunately, I cannot get to the either link you posted, I have major internet problems, and while ideally id like to see them, I can tell enough by the titles to comment.

This is from one sector in one company, in one area of the country, and you want that to translate to all sectors, in all companies, across the entire country? Sorry, extrapolation doesn’t work that way.

quote:

your question presumes that your "there is no shortage of high tech American workers" is a true statement. see my above response. but the essence of the question is, "how does one high tech job help to create 1.8 jobs?" I don't know the answer to that.

Why did you state as fact which you now admit your ignorance?


I didn’t state anything as “fact” other than stating what ted cruz said and what he is basing his decisions on. You were questioning his motivation and said he wanted “take jobs away from Americans.” His premise and use of those study results actually show the opposite then, that he is interested in helping American jobs grow. you can think he is lying, I can think he is telling the truth.

quote:

I would simply refer you to the study ted cruz is referencing.

Nothing in that link referenced a study.


right, I just made that up.

Additionally, more H-1B workers mean more jobs for American workers – according to a study by the American Enterprise Institute, for every additional 100 H-1B workers, 183 jobs are created for U.S. citizens.

quote:

any other interpretation of what he has said is essentially absurdly cynical (cruz wants to bring in foreigners so they can work for less and displace American workers) to the point of being fiction.

This link will take you to a document re: this issue.

http://www.cfr.org/united-states/federation-american-immigrant-reform-myth-skilled-worker-shortage/p26643


this is from the cruz statement I linked, but you seemingly didn’t take notice:

"According to the Joint Economic Committee, between 2010 and 2020, demand for STEM graduates is expected to grow by 17 percent, while employment for those graduates will increase only 14 percent, partly because American graduates are not available or qualified to fill these jobs."

But that said, if what’s in that document has validity, then what it points to is the internet is full of “competing facts (or opinions)”---some will say “no shortage”, others will say “yes shortage.” I don’t know which the case is or which side has the better argument and at the moment, I cannot find out.

But from what you have posted and written, theres no evidence whereby you can say that ted cruz is interested in displacing American workers, or that he is somehow in bed with industry who wants them for cheaper labor, especially when there is evidence to the contrary.

However, maybe ted cruz will appreciate hearing what you have to say about it but in the meantime, I trust he’s done his homework and has American interest at heart.




bounty44 -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/8/2015 10:51:15 AM)

quote:

When Ted Cruz announced he’d run for president, there were some self-declared experts who said he’d have a hard time competing because he wouldn’t be able to raise enough money. Well, think again:

Ted Cruz’s presidential effort is getting into the shock-and-awe fundraising business.

An associate of the Texas senator, a recently announced presidential candidate, tells Bloomberg that a cluster of affiliated super-political action committees was formed only this week, and among them they are expected to have $31 million in the bank by Friday.

That’s $31 million in less than a week. We already know that the eventual Republican nominee will have to raise as much as $1.5 billion; by raising more than thirty million in a few days, Cruz and his supporters prove he’s not merely the Tea Party’s sweetheart, but also a fundraiser extraordinaire

Read more: http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/04/08/ted-cruz-super-pacs-surprise-his-friends-and-enemies-pull-in-record-haul/#ixzz3WjZuINeS



mnottertail -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/8/2015 11:12:54 AM)

Yeah, PAC money the special interest groups. Good if they spend it in America, and he doesn't cave early and keep it. But he won't be elected dogcatcher.



thompsonx -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/8/2015 11:31:52 AM)

There is a pretty easy way to disabuse yourself of your ignorance. Put an ad in the paper seeking i.t. workers at $40 per hour and see how many applicants you get. Then put an ad in the paper for i.t. workers at $100 per hour. Have the same requirements for both ads.
Programers who make $120 an hour might look at the $100 dollar job to see if it were interesting enough or had enough benifits to justify a change but they would never consider the $40 job.
If you choose to only listen to cruze's campagn propaganda and refuse to do the kind of research that you would do if cruz were a demopub accused by me of the same issue then believe what you will.



bounty44 -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/8/2015 1:56:22 PM)

I don't know to what "ignorance" you are referring...and your post about making an ad for IT workers makes no sense in the context of our conversation. nor am I really interested in hearing you explain it.

it's not his "campaign propaganda", the article I referenced was 2 yrs ago so he's held those views long before an interest in the presidency.

riiiiight----people who listen to candidates have all the time necessary to back check every thing they say.

ive pointed out the information is conflicted as to whether or not there is a shortage of stem workers, and you want to continue to act as if that isn't the case, and that cruz is only spouting "propaganda", I can only assume youre incapable of learning.

also, given you didn't actually address the things i said that were in direct response to your replies to me, I find you pretty exasperating. feel invited to not reply to me anymore; I am pretty sure I am going to be ignoring most of yours.






thompsonx -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/8/2015 3:20:23 PM)

Anytime you feel at an intellectual disadvantage in a discussion, you make a wise decission to eschew input that would validate your ignorance.



thompsonx -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/9/2015 2:37:35 PM)

The largest utility in the tenth largest economy in the world replaces 3300 high paying jobs held by u.s. citizens with h1b workers from india.
If there is a shortage of it workers in the u.s. why were these u.s. citizens fired?
How is this good for amerika?


http://www.computerworld.com/article/2879083/southern-california-edison-it-workers-beyond-furious-over-h-1b-replacements.html




bounty44 -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/10/2015 10:45:48 AM)

...

[image]local://upfiles/1936645/62B059F40BEA4043B9F83757B881290E.jpg[/image]



mnottertail -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/10/2015 11:01:12 AM)

So, two dipshits in a pod?



stef -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/10/2015 11:13:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, two dipshits in a pod?

Dueling Loonies, coming to a front porch near you this summer!



bounty44 -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/10/2015 11:46:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, two dipshits in a pod?

Dueling Loonies, coming to a front porch near you this summer!


quote:

Example of Name Calling

Name calling is the practice of using abusive descriptions of others. It's considered immature in adults, and generally useless as a conversational technique

http://www.examplesof.com/society/name_calling.html


or you could try some critical thinking and a contribution to the conversation.









mnottertail -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/10/2015 11:48:24 AM)

Done.

Q.E.D.



DaddySatyr -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/10/2015 11:50:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, two dipshits in a pod?




Nah. "Two dipshits in a pod" would be Hillary, announcing Bill as her running mate.



Michael



mnottertail -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/10/2015 11:51:59 AM)

Since that won't happen, and these two actually are.........it is what it is.



Sanity -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/10/2015 11:52:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

So, two dipshits in a pod?

Dueling Loonies, coming to a front porch near you this summer!


quote:

Example of Name Calling

Name calling is the practice of using abusive descriptions of others. It's considered immature in adults, and generally useless as a conversational technique

http://www.examplesof.com/society/name_calling.html


or you could try some critical thinking and a contribution to the conversation.



Generally speaking, the left is incapable. The best they can do is drag the conversation down to their level



mnottertail -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/10/2015 12:01:41 PM)

The right is incapable, they have no critical thinking skill, their conversation starts out in the bottom of the outhouse, and proceeds down from there.

Perhaps you can extoll the virtues of these two Treasonous motherfuckers, both of whom cry small government (but their ass is in it and feeding at the trough) and their ignorance of States rights instead of the Federal Eminent Domain they champion in the Keystone XL. Just a couple of things to work with there.

So, what do they have beside dipshittedness?



stef -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/10/2015 2:06:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

or you could try some critical thinking and a contribution to the conversation.

That's about as much discussion as those two wastes of skin warrant.



bounty44 -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/12/2015 7:39:48 AM)

quote:

At the NRA’s annual convention yesterday, Senator Ted Cruz once again presented his vision for America…and for his presidential campaign.

The biggest take-away isn’t that he’s pro-Second Amendment (we already knew that), but that he’s determined to run a positive campaign...

Of course Cruz criticized President Obama and other Democrats for implementing horrendous policies that do tremendous damage to America and the rest of the world, but his message was — overall — very positive...

Cruz is taking a risk — winning a negative campaign is easier — but if it pays off, it’ll pay off big time. After all, he’ll then have won the nomination without having made a lot of enemies, which will make it likelier that they and the grassroots will throw their support behind him if he’s the last man standing...


http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/04/11/video-ted-cruz-at-the-nra-can-a-positive-campaign-produce-a-winner/



mnottertail -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/13/2015 6:41:24 AM)

So, he runs a negative campaign that isn't.



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