RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (Full Version)

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DaddySatyr -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 5:27:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

You'll notice that my reply wasn't to you, Michael.

I'm just wondering how Aylee would spot a member of the KKK.



Not only do I stand corrected; I apologize to you. I am so sorry I didn't read the "in reply to" (we don't usually use those, around here so I didn't look) and, therefore, over-reacted.



Michael




DaddySatyr -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 3:23:19 PM)


Okay. Now, I'm ready to have some fun with this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Don't you know, Michael? If Martin Luther King were alive today, his new statement would be that you should judge a GROUP on the content of the character of their BEST individual (him). Much more inclusive that way and you can put away that niggling suspicion that an individual may be different from someone else in his group.



You are not suggesting that individuals can't be dismissed as ... oh ... say: "He's an old, fat, white man. He must be a republican!"

CD, are you daring to suggest that people should be taken as and treated like individuals? Do you realize just how radical conservative an idea that is?

Are you saying that it's okay for the aforementioned old, fat, white man to vote democratic or *gasp* for a young black girl to support Rand Paul?

I can't wait until the PPLs get their way and we can send people like you off to a re-education camp!



Michael




slvemike4u -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 6:32:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Cuz gay friends are the new black friends. It totally means he's not a bigot. Duh.



So ... if we have no black (or gay) friends, we're bigots.

If we have black (or gay) friends, we're "bigots, putting on a front".

Yeah, that sounds like convoluted logic to me.

I guess I need to tell all of my friends that aren't Caucasian and straight that we can't be friends, anymore.



Michael

[/quote


NM




slvemike4u -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 6:34:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Cuz gay friends are the new black friends. It totally means he's not a bigot. Duh.



So ... if we have no black (or gay) friends, we're bigots.

If we have black (or gay) friends, we're "bigots, putting on a front".

Yeah, that sounds like convoluted logic to me.

I guess I need to tell all of my friends that aren't Caucasian and straight that we can't be friends, anymore.



Michael




this is exactly it---and its easier to understand how/why when you start from the position that they (liberals) start from the position of that you are already wrong/bad/evil/bigoted/whatever, and then they work backwards from there.



nm




CreativeDominant -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 6:38:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Okay. Now, I'm ready to have some fun with this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Don't you know, Michael? If Martin Luther King were alive today, his new statement would be that you should judge a GROUP on the content of the character of their BEST individual (him). Much more inclusive that way and you can put away that niggling suspicion that an individual may be different from someone else in his group.



You are not suggesting that individuals can't be dismissed as ... oh ... say: "He's an old, fat, white man. He must be a republican!"

CD, are you daring to suggest that people should be taken as and treated like individuals? Do you realize just how radical conservative an idea that is?

Are you saying that it's okay for the aforementioned old, fat, white man to vote democratic or *gasp* for a young black girl to support Rand Paul?

I can't wait until the PPLs get their way and we can send people like you off to a re-education camp!

Michael

I know...I'm so bad.[:o]




slvemike4u -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 6:39:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

K, so no way I'd vote for Cruz in a general election. And apparently we're boycotting his gay friends.

http://www.edgemedianetwork.com/news/politics/news//176033/return_to_form:_cruz_introduces_2_new_anti-gay_legislations


For the high crime of engaging in dialogue

(Who are the bigots again? For some reason I keep getting that one mixed up)

Or,and this is just a guess.When Cruz engaged in dialogue.....he didn't like what he said.


Is he allowed to reach the decision of not voting for that asshole without you saying he is biased ?




slvemike4u -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 6:49:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Don't you know, Michael? If Martin Luther King were alive today, his new statement would be that you should judge a GROUP on the content of the character of their BEST individual (him). Much more inclusive that way and you can put away that niggling suspicion that an individual may be different from someone else in his group.



Normally, I would continue along in the spirit of snarky camaraderie. I will get to that, eventually, but I want to be serious, first.

MLK is ("was", since he's no longer with us?) one of my heroes. His outlook and quiet, non-aggressive power still stand as an absolute testament to the man. He was exactly what this country needed. He advocated justice; as opposed to a counter-balance of the status quo.

In a different time/reality, MLK could have easily found himself to be president and he probably would have done a wonderful job.

The problem is with people who have a certain caché of credibility, having marched with him and been arrested with him. They have bastardized MLK's message. I won't go so far as to say that their reasons are nefarious, but they certainly aren't honorable, in one way or another. These people (and I'm referencing Jesse Jackson and Harry Belafonte and their ilk) have no way of knowing what MLK might be thinking, today. The fact that he was a man that did think and wasn't swayed by other more violent and militant personalities hints at the idea that these modern idiots have it wrong.

It doesn't matter "Why?" What matters is the bastardization itself. Luckily for us, we have King's own words - in books, on film, and on audio - with which to examine his message.

It's apropos and interesting to me, personally, that you chose to paraphrase what most consider to be his greatest sermon/speech. The part which you referenced:

quote:


I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.


Not only damns racism but it speaks to an intense sense of justice. It also points out the bastardization about which I have written.

That sentence tells us that he finds (as should we all) racism to be repugnant. What's inferred by that sentence is that if we are leaving skin color out of the equation, it's okay to find the character of a man to be lacking. The modern-day PPLs forget this. It's why someone could investigate the voting records and written words of a political candidate and find that candidate to hold a socialist political stance but still be dismissed as a "racist" because the socialist politician happens to have darker skin.

The fact that someone looks a certain way should never be a reason to demonize them but neither should it be a reason to give them transactional immunity/absolution. It contrasts, nakedly, with the modern day message of: If you hold a man accountable for his actions and that man happens to have darker skin, you're a racist.

There's another part of that same speech that speaks to me, also:

quote:


I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and nullification; one day right there in Alabama, little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.


Once again, we see an intense sense of justice. We see a true statement on equality which no human being with two brain cells to rub together could argue against.

Unfortunately, the same rousers of rabble whom I mentioned, earlier (Jackson et al.) seem to only have one brain cell and we see their hatred, injustice ("Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice, everywhere" sound familiar to anyone?) and vitriol regurgitated here, on a daily basis.

The neo-liberal ... the new Pablum©-Puker doesn't seem to want equality; based upon their own words. They seem to want "pay-back" or vengeance. In my heart of hearts, I just can't bring myself to imagine one of my personal heroes changing the content of his character to that degree.



Michael


Or,conversely these same people are inpatient that the dream you love so much,the ideals you so eloquently attach yourself to,have not fucking been met.


Not yet,not even close....a whole generation of young black men are still entwined in some way or other witjh the nations criminal justice system

Economically the black man is STILL little better than a second class citizen.


Towns across america,despite being predominately black,are still policed and legislated by almost exclusive bodies of white folks(Ferguson anyone ?)

The fact thay you don't see or acknowledge any of this indicates that while you tell us MLK is your bestest hero his words just haven't sunk in [;)]





Lucylastic -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 6:50:50 PM)

Ian Reisner, one of the two gay hoteliers facing boycott calls for hosting an event for Senator Ted Cruz, who is adamantly opposed to gay marriage, apologized to the gay community for showing “poor judgment.”

Mr. Reisner put the apology on Facebook, where a page calling for a boycott of his properties, the gay-friendly OUT NYC hotel and his Fire Island Pines holdings, had gotten more than 8,200 “likes” by Sunday evening.

“I am shaken to my bones by the e-mails, texts, postings and phone calls of the past few days. I made a terrible mistake,” wrote Mr. Reisner.

The New York Times first reported on the event, a dinner and on April 20, at the duplex Mr. Reisner and his business partner Mati Weiderpass co-own on Central Park South in Manhattan. The event was a “fireside chat” for about a dozen people, but was not a fund-raiser.

The two men are prominent figures in the gay rights community, and Mr. Reisner has been especially vocal about gay marriage. He’s also a staunch supporter of Israel, as is Mr. Cruz.

But Mr. Cruz has also introduced legislation to try to preserve the rights of states to maintain their bans on gay marriage and he has called for pastors to hold prayer services while the Supreme Court hears arguments on April 28 over the legality of the bans.

Last week, Mr. Reisner and another attendee said Mr. Cruz didn’t explicitly say he opposed gay marriage at the catered dinner, but said that the issue was best left to the states. Mr. Cruz, who is hoping to appeal to evangelical voters in the Iowa caucuses, said he had voiced his strong religious opposition to gay marriage at the dinner.

Mr. Cruz faced some backlash among conservatives over the event, but it was nothing compared to the criticism both Mr. Reisner and Mr. Weiderpass faced from the gay community.

“I was ignorant, naive and much too quick in accepting a request to co-host a dinner with Cruz at my home without taking the time to completely understand all of his positions on gay rights,” Mr. Reisner said.

“I’ve spent the past 24 hours reviewing videos of Cruz’ statements on gay marriage and I am shocked and angry. I sincerely apologize for hurting the gay community and so many of our friends, family, allies, customers and employees. I will try my best to make up for my poor judgement. Again, I am deeply sorry.”


http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/04/26/gay-businessman-who-hosted-cruz-event-apologizes/




slvemike4u -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 6:52:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I would agree with most of this. And Dr King is exactly why I will never be able to call Nelson Mandela a personal hero.



Not too long ago, on these very boards, I called Mandela a racist based upon his policy of "blacks first, everyone else second, then whites."

Naturally, I was lambasted, but the truth is: the way Mandela governed was the antithesis of the stated Utopian society of King.

Maybe you and I truly agree upon an issue?



Michael


Yeah cause the country Mandela ultimately was called on to lead was such a bastion of equality and fairness......you know you really are a joke.

Only no one,with any sense or intelligence ,is laughing WITH you.




slvemike4u -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 6:57:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

I believe that all personal, moral, and religious issues should be considered before a person goes into business.

That may determine what sort of business you can operate, within your defined limits. At no point do I believe anyone should be forced to break the laws & traditions of their religions.

But I do not believe any business should be allowed to discriminate against any class of people for any reason.

If you run a business, shut up and take my money.



A couple of thoughts come to mind, here that kind of acknowledge but build upon Aylee's question:

Should awho owns a printing shop have to print up pro-life posters and pamphlets?

Should a Christian publishing company be forced to print Anton levay?

To some people, money or the collection of wealth is not important as their moral integrity. Why must a person be forced to choose between "harming" their business by turning away a few particular customers and being able to make a living, at all? Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Isn't there anything that your boss could conceivably ask you to do that might make you walk off the job? Have you never taken a stand on principle? If you enjoy that freedom, why can't others?

I see a lot more "live and let live" coming from the right than the left. What ever happened to that idea? Did it die when the right gave an inch and the left decided they wanted to annihilate the right? I'll say it, again; only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Turn your back on the dark side.



Michael


There's your tolerance and understanding on display....a woman,making a heart rendering decision...and her legal right for that matter is vilified with your characterizations of what she is going thru.


There's your love for MLK and your understanding of the principals that were the bedrock of his ministry .

You have probably convinced your self that were he alive he would be tossing tomatoes and joining you in attacking woman making the hardest decision they will ever have to make.

YOu really are worthless,aren't you ?
'




slvemike4u -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 7:06:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

...facepalm...

As soon as I can wrap my head around just how ignorant a question that is, I'll try to give it a serious response.



Yes. It's very ignorant to ask someone if they've ever taken a stand on personal principle.

Here's a better idea: I've tried to be civil with you and you have, on a couple of occasions, met my civility with asshole-ish behavior. So, now, go play hide-and-go-fuck-yourself because I'll not engage you, further.

We're done, here. You're dismissed.


OMG JVOV,whatever will you do.

The forums biggest a...... has just put you on hide.

Considering how many of us he has on hide(disclaimer,I'm one of them....lol) how he follows a thread is beyond me.


Edited to add....he came back and acknowledged his error,so perhaps you are back on his to read list....just don't disagree with him or tick him off in any manner,cause back on hide you will go....lol

Got to love a guy so sure of,so competent,in defending his beliefs that his go to move is the hide button.


Where I grew up you called a guy like that a pussy.....but that wouldn't be nice,so I won't do it.

He wouldn't "see" it anyway.....i'm on the list,lol




slvemike4u -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 7:08:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

You'll notice that my reply wasn't to you, Michael.

I'm just wondering how Aylee would spot a member of the KKK.

Same way you would spot a gay.

Lol...fucking hilarious......they have gaydar,lol




Aylee -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 7:21:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Ian Reisner, one of the two gay hoteliers facing boycott calls for hosting an event for Senator Ted Cruz, who is adamantly opposed to gay marriage, apologized to the gay community for showing “poor judgment.”

Mr. Reisner put the apology on Facebook, where a page calling for a boycott of his properties, the gay-friendly OUT NYC hotel and his Fire Island Pines holdings, had gotten more than 8,200 “likes” by Sunday evening.

“I am shaken to my bones by the e-mails, texts, postings and phone calls of the past few days. I made a terrible mistake,” wrote Mr. Reisner.

The New York Times first reported on the event, a dinner and on April 20, at the duplex Mr. Reisner and his business partner Mati Weiderpass co-own on Central Park South in Manhattan. The event was a “fireside chat” for about a dozen people, but was not a fund-raiser.

The two men are prominent figures in the gay rights community, and Mr. Reisner has been especially vocal about gay marriage. He’s also a staunch supporter of Israel, as is Mr. Cruz.

But Mr. Cruz has also introduced legislation to try to preserve the rights of states to maintain their bans on gay marriage and he has called for pastors to hold prayer services while the Supreme Court hears arguments on April 28 over the legality of the bans.

Last week, Mr. Reisner and another attendee said Mr. Cruz didn’t explicitly say he opposed gay marriage at the catered dinner, but said that the issue was best left to the states. Mr. Cruz, who is hoping to appeal to evangelical voters in the Iowa caucuses, said he had voiced his strong religious opposition to gay marriage at the dinner.

Mr. Cruz faced some backlash among conservatives over the event, but it was nothing compared to the criticism both Mr. Reisner and Mr. Weiderpass faced from the gay community.

“I was ignorant, naive and much too quick in accepting a request to co-host a dinner with Cruz at my home without taking the time to completely understand all of his positions on gay rights,” Mr. Reisner said.

“I’ve spent the past 24 hours reviewing videos of Cruz’ statements on gay marriage and I am shocked and angry. I sincerely apologize for hurting the gay community and so many of our friends, family, allies, customers and employees. I will try my best to make up for my poor judgement. Again, I am deeply sorry.”


http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/04/26/gay-businessman-who-hosted-cruz-event-apologizes/



We will destroy you for not towing the party line.

Ugh.




slvemike4u -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 7:24:28 PM)

Rhino much ?




JVoV -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 7:26:07 PM)

Cruz has introduced not only a Constitutional Amendment to give States the decision of whether or not to approve gay marriage, but also a bill that would bar any judicial hearings and decisions on gay marriage until that Amendment is passed.

In my lifetime so far, the President that has had the most profound impact on my political views has no doubt been Ronald Reagan. I was a very impressionable youth.

And I have no doubt that when the issue of gay marriage is finally decided in the Supreme Court, it will be Ronald Reagan's appointee, Justice Kennedy, that reinforces every reason Ronnie was my hero.

Modern Republicans still have much to learn.




CreativeDominant -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 8:19:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Don't you know, Michael? If Martin Luther King were alive today, his new statement would be that you should judge a GROUP on the content of the character of their BEST individual (him). Much more inclusive that way and you can put away that niggling suspicion that an individual may be different from someone else in his group.



Normally, I would continue along in the spirit of snarky camaraderie. I will get to that, eventually, but I want to be serious, first.

MLK is ("was", since he's no longer with us?) one of my heroes. His outlook and quiet, non-aggressive power still stand as an absolute testament to the man. He was exactly what this country needed. He advocated justice; as opposed to a counter-balance of the status quo.

In a different time/reality, MLK could have easily found himself to be president and he probably would have done a wonderful job.

The problem is with people who have a certain caché of credibility, having marched with him and been arrested with him. They have bastardized MLK's message. I won't go so far as to say that their reasons are nefarious, but they certainly aren't honorable, in one way or another. These people (and I'm referencing Jesse Jackson and Harry Belafonte and their ilk) have no way of knowing what MLK might be thinking, today. The fact that he was a man that did think and wasn't swayed by other more violent and militant personalities hints at the idea that these modern idiots have it wrong.

It doesn't matter "Why?" What matters is the bastardization itself. Luckily for us, we have King's own words - in books, on film, and on audio - with which to examine his message.

It's apropos and interesting to me, personally, that you chose to paraphrase what most consider to be his greatest sermon/speech. The part which you referenced:

quote:


I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.


Not only damns racism but it speaks to an intense sense of justice. It also points out the bastardization about which I have written.

That sentence tells us that he finds (as should we all) racism to be repugnant. What's inferred by that sentence is that if we are leaving skin color out of the equation, it's okay to find the character of a man to be lacking. The modern-day PPLs forget this. It's why someone could investigate the voting records and written words of a political candidate and find that candidate to hold a socialist political stance but still be dismissed as a "racist" because the socialist politician happens to have darker skin.

The fact that someone looks a certain way should never be a reason to demonize them but neither should it be a reason to give them transactional immunity/absolution. It contrasts, nakedly, with the modern day message of: If you hold a man accountable for his actions and that man happens to have darker skin, you're a racist.

There's another part of that same speech that speaks to me, also:

quote:


I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and nullification; one day right there in Alabama, little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.


Once again, we see an intense sense of justice. We see a true statement on equality which no human being with two brain cells to rub together could argue against.

Unfortunately, the same rousers of rabble whom I mentioned, earlier (Jackson et al.) seem to only have one brain cell and we see their hatred, injustice ("Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice, everywhere" sound familiar to anyone?) and vitriol regurgitated here, on a daily basis.

The neo-liberal ... the new Pablum©-Puker doesn't seem to want equality; based upon their own words. They seem to want "pay-back" or vengeance. In my heart of hearts, I just can't bring myself to imagine one of my personal heroes changing the content of his character to that degree.



Michael


Or,conversely these same people are inpatient that the dream you love so much,the ideals you so eloquently attach yourself to,have not fucking been met.


Not yet,not even close....a whole generation of young black men are still entwined in some way or other witjh the nations criminal justice system
. Perhaps because they're breaking the law?

quote:

Economically the black man is STILL little better than a second class citizen.
Perhaps because many black people...though certainly not all (the Reverend Jackson, the Reverend Sharpton, Thomas Sowell, Dr. Carter)...are content to remain mired in the welfare system?


quote:

Towns across america,despite being predominately black,are still policed and legislated by almost exclusive bodies of white folks(Ferguson anyone ?)
Is there any of these towns that you can bring a solid, provable case of black people being kept from running for office? Where black police officers have applied for jobs and been turned away?









slvemike4u -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/26/2015 8:23:37 PM)

Not worth the time to reply.

Dog whistles are so damm loud. [8|]




CreativeDominant -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/27/2015 6:08:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Not worth the time to reply.

Dog whistles are so damm loud. [8|]

Yeah...it must be hard when all you've got is the same sob stories but no real answers.




DaddySatyr -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/27/2015 6:11:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Not worth the time to reply.

Dog whistles are so damm loud. [8|]

Yeah...it must be hard when all you've got is the same sob stories but no real answers.


Dog whistles are almost as loud as the whistling while some walk past a graveyard.



Michael




hot4bondage -> RE: First to throw his hat in the ring (4/27/2015 8:02:50 AM)

Kennedy's not a reliable defender of civil liberties. Just last week, he sided with Alito and Thomas on extending the time on a traffic stop for a dog sniff/fishing expedition.




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