RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/26/2015 1:55:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

So there is still a chance that the blood lust demonstrated on these pages will be sated.....great [8|]


I guess it comes down to what your views are for capital punishment... I have always been for it in certain circumstances... I do not think of it as blood lust or revenge but as a deserved punishment. Here in St. Louis we have a woman who gave permission to her boyfriend to fuck her 4 month old daughter while she watched... He ruptured her then strangled her to death... He deserves the death penalty and so does she... There are just some things that people should forfeit their right to breath.

When it comes to the military... in his case he volunteered for service... he took an oath... his fellow soldiers put their lives in his hands. Now.. if a man or woman is a coward in the face of the enemy I do NOT believe in the death penalty. Some people just do not know they will be a coward... or in that split second they turn and run when in another second they would not... they just cannot help themselves and in my opinion deserve nothing but a dishonorable discharge.

BUT

If you desert and give aid to the enemy then you deserve to die... this is a choice you make and you put your fellow soldiers lives at risk... you break your oath to your country.

This is assuming that he is found guilty of desertion. Even if he is found guilty I would not care either way... life in prison or the firing squad but it should be one or the other.

Butch



igor2003 -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/26/2015 3:12:31 PM)

--FR--

I haven't really read everything in the whole thread, so I'm not sure what all has been said, exactly. Mostly I've kind of scanned what has been going by on the scroll. So, I'm going to weigh in just with some "aside" thoughts, and I don't plan on arguing anything, pro or con.

I live in Idaho, Berghdahl's state, so there very well could have been more coverage here than in most places. During his captivity, the area around Ketchum and Sun Valley (Burghdahl's home area) had a LOT of people doing the "tie a yellow ribbon" thing going on for him, and it was in the local news a lot.

Shortly after the prisoner exchange there were a lot of people from the Ketchum/Sun Valley area that were interviewed. People that knew him pretty well, including a young lady that had been his platonic roommate for a while. It seems that Bergdahl had a great concern for the people of Afghanistan, especially the children. But not Al Qaida or the Taliban. His goal was to go there to try to help the citizens, and like I said, especially the kids.

Going into the military was definitely not the way to do that, in my opinion, but in some way I guess it made sense to him, since that is what he did. In hearing people talk about Bergdahl it sounded like he was more of a pacifist than any kind of military person, and the way some people talked about him I often wondered if he wasn't a little bit simple minded.

I can only guess as to his intentions when he left his post, but in hearing about why he went into the military my own guess was that he thought it would help the citizens of Afghanistan, since that is why he had gone there. I seriously doubt that he left to try to help the "enemy". That just didn't seem to be what he was all about.

Leaving his post was wrong. No doubt about it. But I don't think he did it to thwart the U.S. military, regardless of whether it did or didn't. Personally, I think that his even being in Afghanistan, in the military, was wrong. I feel like he should have been screened out in some way.

As it is, he left his post, and there should probably be consequences, but what I see some people lusting for is a little extreme.



kdsub -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/26/2015 4:19:05 PM)

igor I think that will come out in the court marshal... I do not believe anyone who commented on this thread has convicted him before hand... this is just talking for what should happen IF convicted... at least on my part. AND I believe the actual thrust of the thread was more a snipe at Obama for how this came about than demand for execution.

Butch



KenDckey -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/26/2015 5:40:07 PM)

diserition is usually considered absent without leave for in excess of 30 days.

Cowardess in the face of the enemy was explained up front.

I don't think he committed treason. I do believe he left his post without authorization in a theater of war.



BamaD -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/26/2015 5:48:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

diserition is usually considered absent without leave for in excess of 30 days.

Cowardess in the face of the enemy was explained up front.

I don't think he committed treason. I do believe he left his post without authorization in a theater of war.

Treason would depend on what information he gave them when he deserted. I believe that under some conditions, like a war zone the time for desertion is much shorter. When I was at NSA they told us that we would be considered deserters after 24 hours.



KenDckey -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/26/2015 6:09:30 PM)

The code of conduct has changed since Viet Nam During Nam and before it was name rank service number and date of birth. Now it depends on one's ability to withstand torture (more or less). Trreason is more or less rendering aid and comfort to the enemy.



BamaD -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/26/2015 6:11:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

The code of conduct has changed since Viet Nam During Nam and before it was name rank service number and date of birth. Now it depends on one's ability to withstand torture (more or less). Trreason is more or less rendering aid and comfort to the enemy.

Yes I know, I thought it was understood that I meant information he voluntarily gave them. My bad.



KenDckey -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/26/2015 9:18:00 PM)

sorry, I didn't understand it that way. I stand corrected.



slvemike4u -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/27/2015 7:37:05 AM)

Okay ,lets shed a little bit more light on this issue,rather than the knee jerk parroting of right wing hysteria.
Here are two links,the first deals with the actual charges Begdahl faces.
The second link is an editorial piece making the argument that Bergdahl shouldn't be facing any charges at all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/27/us/politics/in-bowe-bergdahl-case-the-rare-charge-of-misbehavior.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/27/opinion/no-need-to-prosecute-sgt-bowe-bergdahl.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region®ion=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-col



slvemike4u -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/27/2015 7:46:27 AM)

For those who won't bother with the links....the first link details the charges brought against Bergdahl and includes an assertion ,once again,that no soldiers were injured as a result of Bergdahl's actions.Hence the simple desertion charge...which could have been a much higher level.As is true with the decision to use the rare charge of misbehavior in the face of the enemy charge.Again the charges would have been much different if any casualties could actually have been laid at his feet.


The second link makes the case for not charging Bergdahl at all,seems Bergdahl had first enlisted in the Coast Guard...but was separated from that service after 28 days due to psychological issues .
He needed a number of waivers in order to enlist in the Army.Seems that when Bergdahl was trying to enlist the Army was having issues meeting their enlistment quota's and started granting waivers to many with issues that would have normaly seen them precluded from military service,gang bangers,folks with criminal records and those afflicted with mental health issues.Bergdahl it seems had issues long before joining the army and certainly prior to deployment.
Bergdahl's walk is not as cut and dried as some posters seem to need to insist on....I hope the man gets found not guilty,recieves his discharge and is able to find some sort of peace going forward.



KenDckey -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/27/2015 7:47:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Okay ,lets shed a little bit more light on this issue,rather than the knee jerk parroting of right wing hysteria.
Here are two links,the first deals with the actual charges Begdahl faces.
The second link is an editorial piece making the argument that Bergdahl shouldn't be facing any charges at all.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/27/us/politics/in-bowe-bergdahl-case-the-rare-charge-of-misbehavior.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/27/opinion/no-need-to-prosecute-sgt-bowe-bergdahl.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=c-column-top-span-region®ion=c-column-top-span-region&WT.nav=c-col


Again, misbehavior and disertion are really big deals in the military. It can't be allowed for many reasons. No one hates war more than a soldier but once ordered there then certain concepts of order and duty must be maintained or people die.



slvemike4u -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/27/2015 7:50:46 AM)

Read the links,no one is minimizing the charges....but there are no death penalty issues,there are no leading to the death of others issues....In other words most of the posts that appeared on the first four pages of this thread are so much bullshit and nothing more.



kdsub -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/27/2015 8:39:43 AM)

quote:

Okay ,lets shed a little bit more light on this issue,rather than the knee jerk parroting of right wing hysteria.


Where do you find this Mike?

Why must you turn every discussion into a right wing left wing thing... I can tell you that there are many so called left wing liberal military that are not happy with this man's conduct.

Butch



slvemike4u -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/27/2015 8:59:49 AM)

I didn't "turn" it into anything ?
Go back and read the first four pages,right wing posters invariably called for this man's head on a silver platter.A few even mentioned the death penalty.
While those with a left leaning bent were,on the whole,much more circumspect about the charges,the burden of guilt and even whether or not his actions led to any casulties.
So the left/right divide was already present,whether or not you wish to acknowledge it .
None of which has fuck all to do with the links I provided and their refutation of certain claims made here the last day or so

But to put a fine point on it,and answer your question ....the right wing hysteria I was referring to was the mention(with a certain glee) that Bergdahl quite possibly could still face a death penalty carrying charge....which is clearly and absolutely false.



kdsub -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/27/2015 9:04:40 AM)

I believe the discussion was IF he was proven guilty of certain kind of charges Mike... then the rest of the discussion was if it was wise for Obama to make the trade... It seems to me you are the one bringing up right and left wing.

Butch



slvemike4u -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/27/2015 9:10:09 AM)

Lol,that's comical Butch.just fucking hysterical.
Read the thread,see the posts discussing death penalty,listen to right wing radio.
I didn't draw the lines....I'm just coloring inside them.


But if you like,go ahead,blame me for partisan divide,lol.I'll live ,I'll get over it....lol



kdsub -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/27/2015 9:11:13 AM)

I did Mike... you need to as well... the discussion on the death penalty was always prefaced with IF GUILTY.

Butch



slvemike4u -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/27/2015 9:17:43 AM)

And the point is he faces no such jeopardy to begin with...or did you miss that
Further more only right wing posters speculated on something that was never ever in the cards .....and why did they do so,because right wing media fed them bullshit about Bergdahl being responsible for six service members dying while searching for him.
A patently false assertion....fed by parties on the right.
If you want to continue playing dense do so without me...I have things to do,enjoy your day



kdsub -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/27/2015 9:58:00 AM)

I will wait for the actual results of the court marshal ... there is a lot of testimony to come and we really do not know for sure what charges will be brought... But even then Mike we all have different ideas on what punishment WE BELIEVE should be given out if guilty... I will bet some if not most of his fellow soldiers will have a different take than you...and we were discussing that. I said cowardliness should not be a death penalty but I can understand those who think it should be... and...I will guarantee you some of those will not be right wing conservatives.

I guess what i am saying is not everyone who believes in capital punishment...or believes if convicted as a deserter may deserve the death penalty.. is a radical right wing conservative. I will agree that conservatives will be more likely to think in harsher terms than you but certainly not all and I think it disingenuous of you to brand all that disagree with you right wing.

Butch



cloudboy -> RE: Dersition and misconduct charges for Bergdahl (3/27/2015 11:59:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


I saw your comment, going by in the scroll, Mike.

That said, I know you'll just poo-poo this since the interview was done on FOX but the commander of the Army Special Forces, when they were looking for Bergdahl, claims that at least six soldiers died, looking for the deserter.


Michael


Don't you ever keep up with the news???? ^^^ This has been established as CATEGORICALLY FALSE.

Mr. Fidell also wrote that the Dahl report debunked several assertions about Sergeant Bergdahl’s disappearance, including the widely reported accusation that some American soldiers had died because of the search for him in the months after his capture.

“The report properly dismisses a variety of contentions that have been made about Sergeant Bergdahl,” Mr. Fidell wrote. “No, he was not planning to walk to China or India. No, there is no evidence that any soldier died searching for him. No, there is no evidence of misbehavior of any kind while he was held captive. Nor is there any credible evidence that Sergeant Bergdahl left in order to get in touch with the Taliban.”

The Dahl report did quote from a June 27, 2009, email — days before Sergeant Bergdahl left his post — in which he told his parents that he was “ashamed to be an American,” Mr. Fidell wrote. Mr. Fidell said that General Dahl “wisely deemed this email irrelevant to the matter at hand and made nothing of it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/us/army-bowe-bergdahl-desertion-charges.html


PS I found this interesting: The more serious charge, which carries the potential for a life sentence, is a rare and obscure charge called “misbehavior before the enemy,” one that left military lawyers struggling to recall the last time it was leveled against an American service member.



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