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RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/28/2015 1:19:20 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

An innate something in your soul which means you have things to achieve, more things to accomplish than you could ever do in a life time but it won't be for the want of trying.

That would probably be vital for dom or sub. After all, a relationship takes a lot of drive to make it a successful one; no doubt the more so if we're talking about a D/s relationship. Both sides need bollocks for it. Metaphorically, that is.

Of course, although a desire and associated effort to make a relationship work is not what I had in mind.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 21

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/28/2015 2:12:04 PM

Awareness

Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit
Are there certain personality traits you see as inherently submissive/dominant?

Absolutely. A tendency toward leadership and decision-making is dominant. A tendency toward following and service is submissive.

quote:

Are there certain personality traits you see as superior/inferior?(if you think that part is too inflammatory feel free to pick and choose which portions you answer I'm not a stickler for structure)

No. I tend to rank people in terms of both intelligence and wisdom, however I'm aware that's a purely arbitrary criteria chosen because I see myself as relatively bright and thus rank myself pretty highly. Were I a male model, I might rank people on their physical attractiveness.

quote:

Are there traits which you see as superior and submissive/ inferior and dominant or are they mutually exclusive?

Servant leadership becomes a little tricky because there you have someone ostensibly leading who's acting as an enabler for their subordinates. Their desire to lead is driven first by a desire for service, then the aspiration to lead driven by that desire.

quote:

Do you take someone at their word generally if they say they are dominant or submissive or do you rely on some of those traits to define it for you?

Oh lord no. Personal testimony is valueless. Although I will say, extensive personal testimony implies to me that they're invested in the image they want me to believe. I watch their actions and reactions to the events around them - particularly social interactions.

quote:

I'm curious if this is something that differs a lot or something people generally have similar views on.

I expect it differs considerably depending upon knowledge and wisdom. (I consider wisdom a fusion of both experience and beliefs).

_____________________________

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(in reply to DerangedUnit)

Post #: 22

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/28/2015 2:30:57 PM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

An innate something in your soul which means you have things to achieve, more things to accomplish than you could ever do in a life time but it won't be for the want of trying.

That would probably be vital for dom or sub. After all, a relationship takes a lot of drive to make it a successful one; no doubt the more so if we're talking about a D/s relationship. Both sides need bollocks for it. Metaphorically, that is.

Of course, although a desire and associated effort to make a relationship work is not what I had in mind.

No, I didn't imagine that it did. However, for me, it very much would take a lot of guts. I'd think, 'Right, this is something you've always wanted to do, old chum, so don't fuck it up. She wants to rule; you want to follow. Grit your teeth, don't chicken out, and see where it takes you'.

I see little chance of a Femdom/malesub relationship working unless the male's got some major stiff upper lip to offer. The woman concerned - well, that's her department. I'd help her if I could. But, frankly, you can't be a malesub in a relationship unless you put your goolies into it, is what I'm saying. It does take nuts to give up said nuts.

_____________________________

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(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 23

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/28/2015 10:47:22 PM

dreamlady

Posts: 737
Joined: 9/13/2007
From: Western MD
Status: offline

DerangedUnit, I suppose it would be opening a can of worms to go into switch traits. You have an owner, and you have a maso boy you play with, right? I see many switch-like characteristics in you, although you identify as a slave, I take it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12
I don't see Dom or sub as a trait. I see it as something you do, with another person, rather than something that you are.

This, I don't understand. What you do would be acting as the Top or as the bottom. What you do, though, is not who or what you are. That would be the same as identifying with your profession, or letting your job (what you do) define who you are.

I see being Dominant or submissive very much as who you are. Otherwise, anybody above the tier of an omega would be a Dominant. It only takes a higher tier of authority to lead those in lower tiers and to take charge of them. (I'll be the first to say that I consider the Alpha-omega model to be flawed, but I only bring this in for illustrative purposes for those who need to see things in black and white, or the more literal-minded among us.)

What others have already mentioned, to wit:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
Absolutely. A tendency toward leadership and decision-making is dominant. A tendency toward following and service is submissive.

If you don't mind OP, I choose to bypass any discussion of superior/inferior personality traits. I see character traits as being either desirable, neutral, or undesirable, and I'll skip with those judgments for now.

Getting back to personality traits, then. Others' mileage may vary, but these are my impressions, both of differences and of commonalities.

- Perfectionism/Overachievement: Imo, a higher incidence of this than with the general population. With Dominants, this may be more internalized, holding themselves to a higher standard. (NorthernGent posted on this, but I agree with PeonForHer that this inner drive is not the exclusive domain of Dominants.) With slaves, more so than submissives, I hear a lot of talk about wanting to be "perfected," either through training, discipline and/or punishment.

- Obsessive/Compulsive Tendencies: No question, both sides of the kneel, slightly more so with Dominants.

- Territorialism: Dominants, hands down. What is ownership, if not possession? What is being owned (collared), if not wanting or needing to belong to (be possessed by) another? As for actual possessiveness in itself, there are too many variables when one considers a poly lifestyle, or what have you. However, I believe that the cuckolding dynamic could not be effective without strong elements of possessiveness and jealousy swirling in the mix (which are forms of territorialism, flaunting ownership or lack of ownership).

- Need for Consistency/Decisiveness/Unambiguity: Me Tarzan, You Jane. Clearly defined roles, rules and expectations, without the guesswork. No loose ends. Submissives seem to need this type of direction regularly. If the Dominant vacillates, wavering back and forth (not the same as taking time to come to the right decision for their mutual benefit), acts indecisive, sends mixed signals, expect the submissive to be a mindreader and does not spell out his or her instructions clearly, this will greatly confuse the submissive and ultimately make him or her lose confidence and respect in the Dominant, or start questioning the Dominant's authority.

Honorable Mention (in some cases)? - Desire to Merge Intimately/The Urge to Merge: This may only apply with romantically bonded couples or with primary partners in LTRs, and it is often equally intense on both sides, to function synergistically as a cohesive unit. Ime, this aspect of the D/s dynamic is the glue which holds the relationship together through thick and thin as a healthy organism, instead of falling apart at the seams.

DreamLady

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

Post #: 24

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/29/2015 1:46:22 AM

DerangedUnit

Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
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Just got in so still reading things but feel free to open whatever can of worms you wish, I usually see them as spaghetti.

I didny consider switch traits just because my view of a switch is is someone who bounces between dominant and submissive so I figured the traits would be included in one or the other but that was just a blind spot on my part so feel free tp include switch as well

And no I dont consider myself switch but I don't hold classic views of dominant/submissive( I base my view of someone as dominant or submissive entirely upon whether they meet my "qualifications" as such.... if they arent dominant to me I dont treat them like they are for no reason. And even though it is almost assuredly incorrect I expect and respond as if people are doing the same as me. The world makes more sense to me if I try to assume people know what im talking about pretty much. ) since I see switch as bouncing between two points and I have a very stable persona it doesn't work that way. For example most subs aren't submissive to everyone..... some may be submissive to more people than others, some people are pretty neutral, some are only dominant to those that submit easily others are dominant to those that may be nuetral or even dominant. Some people are more submissive than me some are more dominant... I dont like "submitting" I also think leading is incredibly boring... I like the fight, I actually prefer losing because it shows where I can improve... but struggle is the name of my game... not really dominant submissive or switch by common lifestyle definition.

Im making this explanation too long though I think so I'll stop there and hope that part answers your question without me going off on more tangents to try to paint a fuller picture.

(in reply to dreamlady)

Post #: 25

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/29/2015 3:49:37 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

The only fairly consistent personality trait I've observed that distinguishes dominants from submissives is the former actively desire to control. While the latter CAN control, usually at work, it's something they do because they have to, not because they want to. That is true of me anyway, can't speak for anyone else. As to superior/inferior personality traits, I think my favorite superior one is responsibility, for oneself and for those people or things one has taken on. I.e., no whining. Maybe that's on my mind because there is so damned much whining on here lately

I wouldn't say a 'desire to control' is a personality trait, nor particularly dominant in fashion.

I'm sure we all know people who desire control, but you probably wouldn't follow them as far as the end of the street let alone hand over your trust to these people.

I've read the thread, and I don't believe traits such as insecurity are particularly submissive in nature - although some submissives will be insecure depending upon the person.

I think the question, or rather the answer, is that some people have such energy and drive that it then follows that these people are viewed as natural leaders, not the other way round - which is the important point.

People with energy and drive, tend to learn more, accomplish more, stay healthy (within the boundaries of that which can control) earn more and are one step ahead; placing them in a position of authority.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)

Post #: 26

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/29/2015 5:38:09 AM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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What type of personality traits?

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.

or

slutty,
amoral,
passionate,
enthusiastic,
bisexual,
nymphomaniac,
and masochistic?

_____________________________

-=BDSM Book List=- Reading is Fundamental !!!
I give good thread.

(in reply to DerangedUnit)

Post #: 27

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/29/2015 11:00:47 AM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

Male subs are more attached to the ideas of service and will label even eating an apple as "service" in order for them to feel that desire for them is being fulfilled. They can funnel there submission in different ways. 1. An ex, 2. Female friends, 3. Their work, 4. Their kids, 5. Meaningless hookups, 6. Excuses about not finding that "one true Domme" 7. Being in service to anyone who'll have them.
Male subs tend to be evasive of collar, female subs more committed to collar. Only difference I can think of off the top of my head. Aside from that some kinks are widely popular based on gender. I can't tell you the difference between Male and Female Ds. Our roles are natural and comfortable for us. I tend to identify with male Dominants more than any other group.
Speaking of which, just got an email of a seemingly eligible sub who has been a member since 2006. My gut tells me this will be an interesting convo.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 3/29/2015 11:03:27 AM >

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 28

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/29/2015 2:01:34 PM

MalcolmNathaniel

Posts: 1394
Joined: 9/20/2010
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RS, I like the Scout Law there. Good pull.

(in reply to GoddessManko)

Post #: 29

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/29/2015 2:07:07 PM

DerangedUnit

Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MalcolmNathaniel

RS, I like the Scout Law there. Good pull.

Damn did someone notice I was wearing a boyscout uniform in my pic

(in reply to MalcolmNathaniel)

Post #: 30

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/30/2015 9:01:22 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

There are lots of passive aggressive doms out there. Ask any sub who is looking and they'll tell you about their email adventures.

The Man and I are both introverts. He doesn't have my environmental sensitivity to noise though, so he appears less introverted. I just burn out faster.

Not all subs are service oriented. And the desire to express love through doing is a love language thing, not anything to do with being the leader.

Mostly what I see in the lists given are that person's own must haves and deal breakers. Because for something to be a submissive trait, it would have to apply to every submissive. As we've seen, things don't.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to DerangedUnit)

Post #: 31

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/30/2015 10:12:51 AM

littleladybug

Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline

I am having a difficult time equating personality traits with being "Dominant" or "submissive".

My man and my prior partner couldn't be more diametrically opposed in terms of personality. The latter was a leader, come hell or high water-- the former doesn't have to be. The former is an introvert. I never thought I would be involved with someone where *I* was the social director, but here I am. The latter was an extrovert, on steroids. Absolutely nothing in the social realm intimidated him.

The list of differences is long, but for some reason, I've considered both to be my Dominants.

I have to laugh in terms of the comment about passive-aggression being "submissive". In my experience, the likelihood of one being likely to have that trait has more to do with the area in which they live than anything else.

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 32

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/30/2015 10:16:15 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist

What type of personality traits?

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.

AND BitaNote: fixed that 'or' thing for ya.. :D (that would fall under the 'helpful' slot.. )

slutty,
amoral,
passionate,
enthusiastic,
bisexual,
nymphomaniac,
and masochistic?

You rang? ;)

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 33

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/30/2015 11:23:08 AM

NookieNotes

Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug
I have to laugh in terms of the comment about passive-aggression being "submissive". In my experience, the likelihood of one being likely to have that trait has more to do with the area in which they live than anything else.

I'd like to respond to this...

Passive-aggressive behavior is the indirect expression of hostility, such as through procrastination, stubbornness, sullenness, or deliberate or repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible.

FOR ME, being dominant and leading means taking responsibility for not only myself, but others as well.

Passive aggression is the epitome of not taking responsibility for even one's self.

Thus, to me, it is one of the ultimate submissive acts, along with lying... because it shows that the person being passive aggressive is not willing to stand up for themselves to the other. There is no leadership in that.

Now, to be clear, I am not saying it is the act of a submissive.

It is simply a submissive (psychologically speaking) behavior.

_____________________________

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(in reply to littleladybug)

Post #: 34

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/30/2015 3:22:06 PM

DerangedUnit

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Joined: 2/23/2007
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Ah that is how you see passive aggressive, I see how that can be seen that way but while those traits I do see kinda as passive(I say kinda because I see the act of deference as an act) I don't see them as aggressive so much as defensive.

Aggressive I see as more directly acting against another, defensive merely tries to push the blame away( or find anyone to give them an excuse as to why their life isn't what they want that doesn't put the blame on them)

I'll an example of an argument I heard between two people the beginning of last week(before leaving to take the trash out).

"I see you haven't taken the trash out yet, I only ask one thing of you and you can't even manage that. You call yourself a good father. I figured you'd actuallydo it this time since (my name) is here to watch.

"You never told me to do it. It's full of your baby's diapers why don't you have to do it"

The first is how I see passive aggressive, the latter defensive... both try to defer the job but in different ways.

(in reply to NookieNotes)

Post #: 35

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/30/2015 3:39:03 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
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From: Dante's Inferno
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FR~I see it as always trying to indirectly elicit an emotional response from someone who might want to have little to nothing to do with you so in such scenario not acknowledging their existence is always on the table. Passive-aggression that is. Being indirectly hostile has little to nothing to do with responsibility or actions in my mind. Lying is not a submissive trait, nor is "passing of blame". It is the trait of an irresponsible person. That holds no bearing on gender, title or disposition. Everyone lies so we have a moral compass which enables us to hold ourselves accountable. That is the reality of the world. It is normal to do so, propensity of the lie/deception is entirely different and that speaks to personal character. Nothing about submission is inherently negative in my mind. All positive. Only the evasion of one's desires I believe is negative to oneself. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Going on ONE SINGLE DATE with someone may end disastrously but after all, it was only one date, nothing to lose sleep over. This is why I encourage people to get to that point.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to DerangedUnit)

Post #: 36

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/30/2015 5:08:47 PM

DerangedUnit

Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
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This thread isn't about "viewing all as one" so to speak, but about recognising how different traits may influence our perception of people. Everyone has opinions of the people they encounter, recognising the source of these opinions can let you consciously decide if they are valid or not.

I think I mentioned above that lying is one of my neutral traits both in regards to good/bad and dominant/submissive, depending on how it's used.

and I think was it nookie? Who mentioned that they weren't talking about 'a sub' but submissive personality traits.... that was as the thread was intended. What traits do you see as dominant/submissive personality traits not what traits do you think dominants/submissives have

(in reply to GoddessManko)

Post #: 37

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/30/2015 5:17:59 PM

GoddessManko

Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit

This thread isn't about "viewing all as one" so to speak, but about recognising how different traits may influence our perception of people. Everyone has opinions of the people they encounter, recognising the source of these opinions can let you consciously decide if they are valid or not.

I think I mentioned above that lying is one of my neutral traits both in regards to good/bad and dominant/submissive, depending on how it's used.

and I think was it nookie? Who mentioned that they weren't talking about 'a sub' but submissive personality traits.... that was as the thread was intended. What traits do you see as dominant/submissive personality traits not what traits do you think dominants/submissives have

To see lying as a submissive trait is odd. Most CEOs lie as a part of their job. It is a necessity. It is pretty much a job requirement. It is something everyone does. That was my point. And often it is out of necessity, not out of desire to absolve blame.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to DerangedUnit)

Post #: 38

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/30/2015 5:41:51 PM

DerangedUnit

Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

Are there certain personality traits you see as superior/inferior?(if you think that part is too inflammatory feel free to pick and choose which portions you answer I'm not a stickler for structure)
No. I tend to rank people in terms of both intelligence and wisdom, however I'm aware that's a purely arbitrary criteria chosen because I see myself as relatively bright and thus rank myself pretty highly. Were I a male model, I might rank people on their physical attractiveness.

I think that's a good point as well, and what I assumed I'd find a correlation in. Do people place higher value on attributes they place themselves highly in or in areas they merely wish to be seen highly in. How much does self perception play into someone's opinions of others.

I know I have a few areas were my opinions of someone's intellect are directly influenced by a single action, used to be moreso. For example I used to immediately have an incredibly low opinion of anyone religious, someone's capacity for delusion was a main basis of how I viewed them intellectually. My dislike for religion formed my opinion of people who chose to engage in it.

With such a broad trait like intelligence, it alone can mean very different things to different people. A geologist might base someone's intelligence of of their knowledge of rocks(my daddy loves rocks luckily each rock factoid sounds new each time he tells it because I promptly forget anything I'm not interested in), a programmer by how many computer languages someone knows, or merely whether someone has a piece of paper saying they learned something...

I see intelligence as one of those traits like honesty..... a lot of people would like to have it.... but that person who believes in honesty as the most valuable trait might also believe in a giant man in the sky. Perception can make all the difference.

(in reply to Awareness)

Post #: 39

RE: Dom/sub trait comparison - 3/30/2015 6:08:47 PM

DerangedUnit

Posts: 660
Joined: 2/23/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

quote:

ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit

This thread isn't about "viewing all as one" so to speak, but about recognising how different traits may influence our perception of people. Everyone has opinions of the people they encounter, recognising the source of these opinions can let you consciously decide if they are valid or not.

I think I mentioned above that lying is one of my neutral traits both in regards to good/bad and dominant/submissive, depending on how it's used.

and I think was it nookie? Who mentioned that they weren't talking about 'a sub' but submissive personality traits.... that was as the thread was intended. What traits do you see as dominant/submissive personality traits not what traits do you think dominants/submissives have

To see lying as a submissive trait is odd. Most CEOs lie as a part of their job. It is a necessity. It is pretty much a job requirement. It is something everyone does. That was my point. And often it is out of necessity, not out of desire to absolve blame.

Yes I have no qualms against those that decide to "fake it til you make it" I think that is a valuable and admirable skill, a certain amount of self deception can help one achieve things they would be otherwise unable to, or it my hinder them. An awareness of it and ability to control it are of more use than hiding it from one self.

However I understand where they are coming from,that lying to someone is essentially giving up your sense of self. And thusly,must be submissive... I think where it differs is in how one views themselves. Is the lie what you want to become? Is it what you hope you don't become? Is it what someone else told you you are?... some lies can be used to better one self others to tear themselves down.

I have a similar view regarding blind acceptance of authority. I always see it as submissive no matter whether it is beneficial,or even required for survival. Someone who would turn over their consciousness to the will of another and just assume they know best for them.... it maybe a doctor, or a teacher, or a lawyer, it doesn't matter.... at the point someone says "you know what is better for me than I do, I will believe you" they are submissive to me, it is also one of my least desirable traits. One of my few black and white lines of thought.

so while with lying I don't feel it is a submissive trait I understand the 'giving over of one self' train of thought that led to it.

(in reply to GoddessManko)

Post #: 40

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