quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

One key point that is not being brought up here, but assumed: The actual birth of the child. Not just that, but the good health of the mother and child after the process. While this process is done several hundred (if not thousands) times a day across the nation; there are cases in which either or both did not survive the operation. Or there were complications that places one or both in differing levels of additional care. That all of you are assuming this process would be done correctly and without problem is a notable elements in your arguments.

At the moment, assuming the child is given birth can not be ruled as a certainty. Nor as a 'most likely' of outcomes. Some problems develop later in the growth that our currently level of medical knowledge and/or technology can not detect.

So try to keep those future event assumptions in check.

From a legal perspective, this is a hard problem to solve. "Battery" seems to limiting, but "Murder" can not work. That there should exist something in between, since the most obvious concept; manslaughter in the 1st, equally can not be used. That we may have to invent a criminal concept that takes this particularly heinous act into consideration.

What are the motivations of the lady whom attacked the mother exactly? That too seems to play a huge element in all of this.

More so, is that this event is being pushed for political purpose here. That a mother lost something dear seems irrelevant to most pushing the political bullshit. On all sides here.

Yep Im going to take exception with some of this Joe
Babies are born every day needing to be cut out of their mothers(c section) HUGE difference than being attacked and having your baby slashed out of you, without benefit of consent, anesthetist, docs and nurses, hygiene and a plethora of actual "non medically required" violence by a psychotic weirdo
there IS no equal to what happens to most women who need surgery to live thru their delivery
Yep mothers and their children die in childbirth way to often, but This is hacking/cutting, removing with violence. Not an accident or "gods" will, or a medical illness.
Manslaughter would work, if murder in the first cant...
Right now the psycho who did this will be evaluated, did she recently lose a child? if you have ever lost a child, then you know how devastating it is...for a woman, it can turn you into someone you never dreamt you could be, hormonally which definitely plays into psychologically, any woman that has gone thru post partum depression can tell you that.
I havent read enough into it to read about the slashers "motivation" but something aint right somewhere in her brain.
wether its from drugs, boooze, prescriptions, mental illness or what... She will get better care than the mother, for far longer.
If you wanna go shouting out politics, be very careful.....
Im very pro choice....but not pro violence.
She didnt lose something dear, she nearly lost her own life, and the hope of a life for a child she was looking forward to.

politics be damned

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

I hate to sound like I am either defending Lane or trying to derail but does Colorado allow late term abortion? If they do then they have declared the baby to not be a baby. You can't logically charge murder for killing something that the law says can be treated like a tumor.
That said this is a heinous crime that should be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. This, unfortunately, happens several times a year.

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ORIGINAL: MariaB

Abortion is a consensual act between mother and surgeon. This was murder of a viable foetus and the husband of Lane said he found the baby breathing in the bathtub.

It should be noted that one of Lanes babies previously died from accidental drowning in a garden pond.

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Abortion is a consensual act between mother and surgeon. This was murder of a viable foetus and the husband of Lane said he found the baby breathing in the bathtub.

It should be noted that one of Lanes babies previously died from accidental drowning in a garden pond.

What "abortion" is, is entirely debatable. Terms such as 'infanticide' are also appropriate, though demands for 'politically correct' speech have brainwashed people as planned

Its not pretty, no matter what you call it, or why.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

It isnt debatable by the religious right, is it ?

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You really ought to learn the difference betwen "debatable" and "religious dogma"

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

(unless you are a mere troll)

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Abortion is a consensual act between mother and surgeon. This was murder of a viable foetus and the husband of Lane said he found the baby breathing in the bathtub.

It should be noted that one of Lanes babies previously died from accidental drowning in a garden pond.

What "abortion" is, is entirely debatable. Terms such as 'infanticide' are also appropriate, though demands for 'politically correct' speech have brainwashed people as planned

Its not pretty, no matter what you call it, or why.

It isnt debatable by the religious right, is it ? You really ought to learn the difference betwen "debatable" and "religious dogma"

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ORIGINAL: MariaB

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

I hate to sound like I am either defending Lane or trying to derail but does Colorado allow late term abortion? If they do then they have declared the baby to not be a baby. You can't logically charge murder for killing something that the law says can be treated like a tumor.
That said this is a heinous crime that should be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible. This, unfortunately, happens several times a year.

Abortion is a consensual act between mother and surgeon. This was murder of a viable foetus and the husband of Lane said he found the baby breathing in the bathtub.

It should be noted that one of Lanes babies previously died from accidental drowning in a garden pond.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Pro choice Aylee...... Thats how it should be. I suspect few women see abortion as an easy decision to make and society shouldnt be in a position to force a woman to have a baby.

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Pro choice Aylee...... Thats how it should be. I suspect few women see abortion as an easy decision to make and society shouldnt be in a position to force a woman to have a baby.

It may be a choice and it may be legal, but I will never be convinced that abortion is anything but infanticide by proxy. On the other hand, I am not going to expend energy to convince others of this without a compelling reason.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Without taking sides on the abortion issue, I think that if it isn't murder if the mother does it it isn't when someone else does it. Or if it is murder when someone else does it it is when the mother does. This seems that it should be valid no matter which side of the abortion debate you are on.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: BamaD


Without taking sides on the abortion issue, I think that if it isn't murder if the mother does it it isn't when someone else does it. Or if it is murder when someone else does it it is when the mother does. This seems that it should be valid no matter which side of the abortion debate you are on.

Granting that a decision to indict on murder charges is indifferent to who did it, it is not indifferent to the circumstances.

K.

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Kirata

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Without taking sides on the abortion issue, I think that if it isn't murder if the mother does it it isn't when someone else does it. Or if it is murder when someone else does it it is when the mother does. This seems that it should be valid no matter which side of the abortion debate you are on.

Granting that a decision to indict on murder charges is indifferent to who did it, it is not indifferent to the circumstances.

That is my point.

Well I must be missing something then, because it seems to me that a physician performing an elective abortion is a very different set of circumstances from some psycho attacking a woman and gutting her alive.

K.

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ORIGINAL: MariaB

I'm not sure about the laws in America surrounding abortion but here in Europe, a perfectly healthy mother who is carrying a perfectly healthy 7 month foetus could not legally get an abortion. At that stage of pregnancy the only exceptions would be threat to the life of either mother or the foetus.