RE: MOM! (Full Version)

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Kirata -> RE: MOM! (5/1/2015 9:49:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why do folks seem so intent on picking a fight with me over this...I'm not all that incensed over the incident,I simply object to the idea that she is the model we should hold up on high as something to aspire to.
What's so fucking hard about that for you to understand ?
What's so wrong about thinking in an IDEAL situation she would not have needed to repeatedly strike her child.

Nothing, if you enjoy fantasy. But it doesn't make much sense to rank the good below some abstract Ideal in the context of an imperfect world. Here in the real world, and specifically in her world, her response may have been -- yes -- ideal in that situation for that son.

K.




slvemike4u -> RE: MOM! (5/1/2015 10:06:58 PM)

Okay...so I would invite you to go back to page one,where I clearly sated I would be hard pressed under these conditions to fault this mother.....again ,my only objection after it was seemingly crammed down my throat,was that this SHOULD not be held up as the right way to reach a child .To that I heard from near and far how this one and that one swatted their child or spanked their child.

Let's be real clear here,this isn't that...this is,to be frank an angry woman whacking her child up,across and around his head.

This is getting tedious.....are you folks sure you want to hank your hat on this sort of behavior ?

From all reports no harm no foul in this case.....but are you all going to line up and give this mother a pat on the back cause she didn't hit the kid hard enough in the head to do damage ?

Seriously ? I really fell like I've fallen thru the rabbit hole...I understand when a baby cries some light shaking just might silence said baby.

Do it too hard and you might need a lawyer

Strike a child too hard around his head and you might need that same lawyer.


Edited to add: A bit of hyperbole for sure...but I don't seem to be getting understood so I stretched it almost to its breaking point in order to illustrate what seems to be getting missed.
Strike a child once too often in the head and you might have an idiot living in your basement for the rest of your life.




BamaD -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 4:25:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why do folks seem so intent on picking a fight with me over this...I'm not all that incensed over the incident,I simply object to the idea that she is the model we should hold up on high as something to aspire to.
What's so fucking hard about that for you to understand ?
What's so wrong about thinking in an IDEAL situation she would not have needed to repeatedly strike her child.

Nothing, if you enjoy fantasy. But it doesn't make much sense to rank the good below some abstract Ideal in the context of an imperfect world. Here in the real world, and specifically in her world, her response may have been -- yes -- ideal in that situation for that son.

K.


In an ideal situation he wouldn't even have been there.




slvemike4u -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 7:48:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why do folks seem so intent on picking a fight with me over this...I'm not all that incensed over the incident,I simply object to the idea that she is the model we should hold up on high as something to aspire to.
What's so fucking hard about that for you to understand ?
What's so wrong about thinking in an IDEAL situation she would not have needed to repeatedly strike her child.

Nothing, if you enjoy fantasy. But it doesn't make much sense to rank the good below some abstract Ideal in the context of an imperfect world. Here in the real world, and specifically in her world, her response may have been -- yes -- ideal in that situation for that son.

K.


In an ideal situation he wouldn't even have been there.

Wow,simply amazing I agree with Bama......way to go southern man .




tj444 -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 1:32:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Greta Sundstrom had her on tonight,the banner at the bottom of the scree actually hailed her as "Mother of the Year"....I call bullshit on that.

A mother that has gained her sons respect thru non violent parenting tells her son to walk away and they both walk to the car,minus the whacks....just my opinion [:)]

I wouldnt call her mother of the year either but she did stop her son from throwing that brick.. some other parents might have said "oh look there is our little johnny having fun with his friends", and done nothing at all.. She did take a risk cuz she was slapping him in public and if she did that at a store instead of at a riot then the result might have been a visit to her home by the cops and social services..




tj444 -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 1:37:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why do folks seem so intent on picking a fight with me over this...I'm not all that incensed over the incident,I simply object to the idea that she is the model we should hold up on high as something to aspire to.
What's so fucking hard about that for you to understand ?
What's so wrong about thinking in an IDEAL situation she would not have needed to repeatedly strike her child.

Nothing, if you enjoy fantasy. But it doesn't make much sense to rank the good below some abstract Ideal in the context of an imperfect world. Here in the real world, and specifically in her world, her response may have been -- yes -- ideal in that situation for that son.

K.


In an ideal situation he wouldn't even have been there.

Wow,simply amazing I agree with Bama......way to go southern man .

she was there wasnt she?, what makes him not being there an ideal situation?.. it actually wasnt so much him being there that was the problem, it was that he had his face partly covered and he had a brick in his hand with the intent to throw it at the cops.. As I understand it, it was supposed to be a protest (you cant have a protest without people), not a riot...




HunterCA -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 1:44:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why do folks seem so intent on picking a fight with me over this...I'm not all that incensed over the incident,I simply object to the idea that she is the model we should hold up on high as something to aspire to.
What's so fucking hard about that for you to understand ?
What's so wrong about thinking in an IDEAL situation she would not have needed to repeatedly strike her child.

Nothing, if you enjoy fantasy. But it doesn't make much sense to rank the good below some abstract Ideal in the context of an imperfect world. Here in the real world, and specifically in her world, her response may have been -- yes -- ideal in that situation for that son.

K.


In an ideal situation he wouldn't even have been there.

Wow,simply amazing I agree with Bama......way to go southern man .

she was there wasnt she?, what makes him not being there an ideal situation?.. it actually wasnt so much him being there that was the problem, it was that he had his face partly covered and he had a brick in his hand with the intent to throw it at the cops.. As I understand it, it was supposed to be a protest (you cant have a protest without people), not a riot...


In the context of him being there to witness a MLK type peaceful protest, I'd agree it would have been a positive thing. I'm all for "the people" controlling the government. The system only works if "the people" speak to the government. But, unfortunately, this wasn't that sort of thing. For whatever reason, maybe even because of outside agitators whipping up a mob or the people were just tired of the whole mess and expressed 50 years of frustration with government oppression.




BamaD -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 2:46:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Why do folks seem so intent on picking a fight with me over this...I'm not all that incensed over the incident,I simply object to the idea that she is the model we should hold up on high as something to aspire to.
What's so fucking hard about that for you to understand ?
What's so wrong about thinking in an IDEAL situation she would not have needed to repeatedly strike her child.

Nothing, if you enjoy fantasy. But it doesn't make much sense to rank the good below some abstract Ideal in the context of an imperfect world. Here in the real world, and specifically in her world, her response may have been -- yes -- ideal in that situation for that son.

K.


In an ideal situation he wouldn't even have been there.

Wow,simply amazing I agree with Bama......way to go southern man .

she was there wasnt she?, what makes him not being there an ideal situation?.. it actually wasnt so much him being there that was the problem, it was that he had his face partly covered and he had a brick in his hand with the intent to throw it at the cops.. As I understand it, it was supposed to be a protest (you cant have a protest without people), not a riot...

There as in participating in the riot.




slvemike4u -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 3:16:15 PM)

That's how I understood it too.

If we were talking about him participating in a peaceful protest,that's a different conversation,but we weren't [:)]




thishereboi -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 5:52:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Damn .... Am I the only one on collarspace that had a great childhood?

Butch


Nope [:)]




thishereboi -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 5:59:44 PM)

While I think it's great that she stepped up and taught the kid a lesson, I have to agree with Mike that it doesn't make her mother of the year. If that was the case, he wouldn't have needed to cover his face because he wouldn't have been doing anything wrong in the first place.




slvemike4u -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 6:13:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

While I think it's great that she stepped up and taught the kid a lesson, I have to agree with Mike that it doesn't make her mother of the year. If that was the case, he wouldn't have needed to cover his face because he wouldn't have been doing anything wrong in the first place.

Bingo


There must be something in the water I've been drinking,strange days we are living in.




Moderator3 -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 6:23:22 PM)

ROFL!

I may need a couple of glasses of that water!




slvemike4u -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 6:32:11 PM)

Who says I'm sharing,I haven't got into a full blown argument in days....I'm keeping this shit to myself [:D]


Let me take the opportunity to once again apologize for all of the discord that I have always been at the center of,I know it caused you more than a few headaches [&o]

I'm really sorry.




Moderator3 -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 6:38:23 PM)

We're good Mike. [:)]




slvemike4u -> RE: MOM! (5/2/2015 8:11:41 PM)

Thanks....[:)]




HunterCA -> RE: MOM! (5/9/2015 11:34:33 AM)

Sometimes mom's DO know best.

http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/Carrot-or-stick-Punishments-may-guide-behavior-more-effectively-than-rewards.aspx





LipstickLeuger -> RE: MOM! (5/9/2015 2:23:54 PM)

As a mother of three, 2 girls and 1 boy, with my son being 18 now...boys are different to raise. Male culture is about who can top who, even in friendly terms. My son pointed this out one day when he said male culture is all about 'seeing who can piss the farthest'. At least for teens it is. Teens are so hormonally charge and raw, they react and don't always think of the consequences. They take things too far.

I am a Feminist and I will probably lose my 'F' card for saying this, but girls do not do what boys do to challenge you(Patriarchy aside, it's inborn and society,or how you raise them has little to do with it). A young male will attempt to take the lead if no one tops them, so to speak. That is why some women can have trouble with raising males unless they are strong. Boys challenge you in ways girls don't, usually. If you are not the clear cut leader, they will act up, get into trouble and push their limits by taking the lead. My neighbor down the street was a single mother who didn't seem to get this, she would drop everything because her son was the 'golden male' and he took so much advantage of her. She finally sent him to live with his father because she could not control him. There were 2 times my son at 16 and 17 openly challenged me, in front of older males, and I put down the law. I was lucky not to have to lay hands on him, but I certainly showed him in no uncertain terms who was in charge, and that it was not him(JstAnotherSub, two thumbs up because you know exactly what I mean! LOL)

This Mother did the right thing, showing him who was in charge, and I highly doubt she will have too much trouble with him past this point now. Males are amazing, but they do require a different technique to raise them up right, from time to time.




HunterCA -> RE: MOM! (5/9/2015 2:33:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LipstickLeuger

As a mother of three, 2 girls and 1 boy, with my son being 18 now...boys are different to raise. Male culture is about who can top who, even in friendly terms. My son pointed this out one day when he said male culture is all about 'seeing who can piss the farthest'. At least for teens it is. Teens are so hormonally charge and raw, they react and don't always think of the consequences. They take things too far.

I am a Feminist and I will probably lose my 'F' card for saying this, but girls do not do what boys do to challenge you(Patriarchy aside, it's inborn and society,or how you raise them has little to do with it). A young male will attempt to take the lead if no one tops them, so to speak. That is why some women can have trouble with raising males unless they are strong. Boys challenge you in ways girls don't, usually. If you are not the clear cut leader, they will act up, get into trouble and push their limits by taking the lead. My neighbor down the street was a single mother who didn't seem to get this, she would drop everything because her son was the 'golden male' and he took so much advantage of her. She finally sent him to live with his father because she could not control him. There were 2 times my son at 16 and 17 openly challenged me, in front of older males, and I put down the law. I was lucky not to have to lay hands on him, but I certainly showed him in no uncertain terms who was in charge, and that it was not him(JstAnotherSub, two thumbs up because you know exactly what I mean! LOL)

This Mother did the right thing, showing him who was in charge, and I highly doubt she will have too much trouble with him past this point now. Males are amazing, but they do require a different technique to raise them up right, from time to time.



First of all I'd like to both agree with you and welcome you. Then I'd like to add the corollary point, my opinion only, that I see no reason for having civilization beyond teaching young, mostly males but sometimes females, how to express their energy properly. Things like Little League teach youthes team activities rather than who can piss the furthest. Culture has thousands of years understanding this point and it's as true now as it ever has been.




LipstickLeuger -> RE: MOM! (5/9/2015 3:01:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: LipstickLeuger

As a mother of three, 2 girls and 1 boy, with my son being 18 now...boys are different to raise. Male culture is about who can top who, even in friendly terms. My son pointed this out one day when he said male culture is all about 'seeing who can piss the farthest'. At least for teens it is. Teens are so hormonally charge and raw, they react and don't always think of the consequences. They take things too far.

I am a Feminist and I will probably lose my 'F' card for saying this, but girls do not do what boys do to challenge you(Patriarchy aside, it's inborn and society,or how you raise them has little to do with it). A young male will attempt to take the lead if no one tops them, so to speak. That is why some women can have trouble with raising males unless they are strong. Boys challenge you in ways girls don't, usually. If you are not the clear cut leader, they will act up, get into trouble and push their limits by taking the lead. My neighbor down the street was a single mother who didn't seem to get this, she would drop everything because her son was the 'golden male' and he took so much advantage of her. She finally sent him to live with his father because she could not control him. There were 2 times my son at 16 and 17 openly challenged me, in front of older males, and I put down the law. I was lucky not to have to lay hands on him, but I certainly showed him in no uncertain terms who was in charge, and that it was not him(JstAnotherSub, two thumbs up because you know exactly what I mean! LOL)

This Mother did the right thing, showing him who was in charge, and I highly doubt she will have too much trouble with him past this point now. Males are amazing, but they do require a different technique to raise them up right, from time to time.



First of all I'd like to both agree with you and welcome you. Then I'd like to add the corollary point, my opinion only, that I see no reason for having civilization beyond teaching young, mostly males but sometimes females, how to express their energy properly. Things like Little League teach youthes team activities rather than who can piss the furthest. Culture has thousands of years understanding this point and it's as true now as it ever has been.



Thank you for the welcome. [:D]

Team activities are so important for them! Mine is more of a deep thinker/Chess type of guy and loved being in Chess club and on Debate Team.(he actually has his own hash tag now from that. LOL) This pretty much taught him rules, and having to follow a more logical path to win, so I think it was immensely helpful. I am glad you mentioned females also, as our oldest is a definate Alpha Female and thinks much like a male would with regards to Top Dog. I read an enlightening article about how the Armed Services are set up to capitalize on this heirarchy of teamwork and having a strong leader to follow, and why it works especially well for males.

Culture may understand that things are different between the sexes, but sometimes it is not very supportive of them.




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