RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs

RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

lovmuffin -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 8:56:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub quote: The war on drugs is an abject failure,I would be interested to hear whether or not those who are for these executions will agree with that simple statement. Why is is a failure? Without the efforts of drug enforcement the drug problem could be ten times worse. So objectively it could be a huge success at at least holding back the flood of drugs that could addict and kill many more thousands. I would say this way of looking at it is closer to the truth than yours. Neither of us know for sure. Butch I really doubt that if it wasn't for the enforcement we would have so many more addicts. Hard drugs are cheaper these days than they were when I was in my youth. It's laughable when I see these guys in law enforcement on TV after catching a big haul claiming they've taken all these drugs off the street. There are warehouses full of the stuff and people in place to step up and distribute. They don't take shit off the street. I don't believe for one second that if drugs were legalized tomorrow, that there would be a line at the heroin store. I doubt drug use would go up by much. The drug war has also been a factor in the militarization of law enforcement all over the country. Having said all that, I don't really give a rats ass about executing a couple of scum bags in some other country.

cloudboy -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 9:04:58 AM)
Check out what David Simon has to say about the Drug War's relation to the death of Mr. Gray and the Baltimore Riots. (It's s separate thread.) https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/29/david-simon-on-baltimore-s-anguish

BamaD -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 9:26:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle It seems that someone thinks that it's a successful strategy that *many tens of thousands of people actually* die in the Narco Wars in Mexico Guatelmala etc to prevent the " flood of drugs that could addict and kill many more thousands.**" Can't even do basic arithmetic so it's no surprise that thinking for themselves is a bit too much to ask. Tens of thousands glad you don't engage in hyperbole.

tweakabelle -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 9:59:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle It seems that someone thinks that it's a successful strategy that *many tens of thousands of people actually* die in the Narco Wars in Mexico Guatelmala etc to prevent the " flood of drugs that could addict and kill many more thousands.**" Can't even do basic arithmetic so it's no surprise that thinking for themselves is a bit too much to ask. Tens of thousands glad you don't engage in hyperbole. There's nothing hyperbolic about ascribing "many tens of thousands" of deaths to the Narco Wars. It is widely reported that over 100,000 violent deaths have occurred in Mexico alone. That's without adding in the many more deaths in other Central and South American countries or any of the US deaths. All down to that disastrous failure - the 'War on Drugs'. If you are aware of these ghastly statistics, your comment sounds callous. If you are unaware, you now know that I was if anything understating the case. Need I add that one actual death is far worse than any amount of potential deaths?

HunterCA -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 10:16:38 AM)
I think the pointless deaths would have been those that used the 8 kg of heroin these guys tried to market. It's totally misplaced to victimize the drug importers. Everyone knows the drug laws in Indonesia. These guys weren't victims, they took their chance and lost.

BamaD -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 10:18:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle It seems that someone thinks that it's a successful strategy that *many tens of thousands of people actually* die in the Narco Wars in Mexico Guatelmala etc to prevent the " flood of drugs that could addict and kill many more thousands.**" Can't even do basic arithmetic so it's no surprise that thinking for themselves is a bit too much to ask. Tens of thousands glad you don't engage in hyperbole. There's nothing hyperbolic about ascribing "many tens of thousands" of deaths to the Narco Wars. It is widely reported that over 100,000 violent deaths have occurred in Mexico alone. That's without adding in the many more deaths in other Central and South American countries or any of the US deaths. All down to that disastrous failure - the 'War on Drugs'. If you are aware of these ghastly statistics, your comment sounds callous. If you are unaware, you now know that I was if anything understating the case. Need I add that one actual death is far worse than any amount of potential deaths? Are you counting the vast numbers killed by the cartels?

HunterCA -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 10:20:31 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle It seems that someone thinks that it's a successful strategy that *many tens of thousands of people actually* die in the Narco Wars in Mexico Guatelmala etc to prevent the " flood of drugs that could addict and kill many more thousands.**" Can't even do basic arithmetic so it's no surprise that thinking for themselves is a bit too much to ask. Tens of thousands glad you don't engage in hyperbole. There's nothing hyperbolic about ascribing "many tens of thousands" of deaths to the Narco Wars. It is widely reported that over 100,000 violent deaths have occurred in Mexico alone. That's without adding in the many more deaths in other Central and South American countries or any of the US deaths. All down to that disastrous failure - the 'War on Drugs'. If you are aware of these ghastly statistics, your comment sounds callous. If you are unaware, you now know that I was if anything understating the case. Need I add that one actual death is far worse than any amount of potential deaths? I personally don't believe the government has the right to tell me what I can or cannot put into my body. But...we have a welfare system here. So anyone that ruins their life doing drugs ends up being supported by my tax dollars. End the welfare system and I'm fine with ending the war on drugs. In fact seeing a few hopeless addicts in the streets would make a decent abject lesson for kids of what can happen to them with drugs.

tweakabelle -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 10:25:44 AM)
It is sad that some are questioning the rehabilitation of the two young men who were executed. Especially so as it is unlikely those doing the questioning have the slightest idea whether their rehabilitation is genuine or otherwise. One person in a position to form an educated opinion is the governor of the prison where they spent 10 years awaiting their executions: "It was always hard at the time to elicit sympathy for the two organisers of this mid-level smuggling attempt. But a decade on there is no doubt that if Indonesia executes Chan and Sukumaran, it will be killing different men. They have admitted their crimes and expressed remorse. They are leaders at Bali’s Kerobokan prison, organising classes in everything from computers to philosophy. They have learnt Indonesian and counsel other prisoners. Their reform is at the heart of their last attempts to save their lives, and it is the plea of their desperate families. Why kill two young men who have had a decade to change, to contribute, to reform? It is not just their lawyers and families who say so. In a highly unusual intervention, then governor of the prison, Siswanto, told an appeal hearing in 2010 that the pair were model prisoners whose lives should be spared. Their reform was “not a camouflage act”, he said. “They are still young. They deserve to be given time to fix their past behaviour. I personally cannot accept it if they are executed.” http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/27/bali-nine-hard-won-public-sympathy-appears-no-match-for-judicial-resolve "

Sanity -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 10:25:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD Are you counting the vast numbers killed by the cartels? The cartels... If they werent running drugs, theyd be running Eric Holders' military grade weapons. Trafficking children. Kidnapping for fun and profit Wait, they already do all of that

HunterCA -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 10:42:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle It is sad that some are questioning the rehabilitation of the two young men who were executed. Especially so as it is unlikely those doing the questioning have the slightest idea whether their rehabilitation is genuine or otherwise. One person in a position to form an educated opinion is the governor of the prison where they spent 10 years awaiting their executions: "It was always hard at the time to elicit sympathy for the two organisers of this mid-level smuggling attempt. But a decade on there is no doubt that if Indonesia executes Chan and Sukumaran, it will be killing different men. They have admitted their crimes and expressed remorse. They are leaders at Bali’s Kerobokan prison, organising classes in everything from computers to philosophy. They have learnt Indonesian and counsel other prisoners. Their reform is at the heart of their last attempts to save their lives, and it is the plea of their desperate families. Why kill two young men who have had a decade to change, to contribute, to reform? It is not just their lawyers and families who say so. In a highly unusual intervention, then governor of the prison, Siswanto, told an appeal hearing in 2010 that the pair were model prisoners whose lives should be spared. Their reform was “not a camouflage act”, he said. “They are still young. They deserve to be given time to fix their past behaviour. I personally cannot accept it if they are executed.” http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/27/bali-nine-hard-won-public-sympathy-appears-no-match-for-judicial-resolve " What's sad is the whole concept of victimology.

kdsub -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 10:57:41 AM)
Yea... then when you get high and kill a love one or innocent because of your "no one has the right to tell me" you may change your mind... Despite what you think the majority of addicts have no control and are often killers of innocent's and themselves. Plus the cost of rehabbing and medical care drives up insurance to those that already have problems paying it... AND lets not talk about the families destroyed dealing with addicted relatives. Your type of attitude is what makes demand for the drugs in the first place... you are weak and childish to take mind altering drugs in the first place... can't you make it in the real world...NORMAl... is your pleasure worth even ONE life? Butch

Sanity -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 11:08:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Yea... then when you get high and kill a love one or innocent because of your "no one has the right to tell me" you may change your mind... Despite what you think the majority of addicts have no control and are often killers of innocent's and themselves. Plus the cost of rehabbing and medical care drives up insurance to those that already have problems paying it... AND lets not talk about the families destroyed dealing with addicted relatives. Your type of attitude is what makes demand for the drugs in the first place... you are weak and childish to take mind altering drugs in the first place... can't you make it in the real world...NORMAl... is your pleasure worth even ONE life? Butch Whats really weird is how (mostly those on the left, certainly not Libertarians) are in the middle of a decades long war on "big tobacco" or peoples' rights to enjoy a little nicotine before they die... While at the same time we are hearing this cacophony of pro-legalizing drugs sentiment from many of them If you are really going to legalize heroine, why cant I have my twenty cent pack of cigarettes back

kdsub -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 11:31:49 AM)
I never thought of that Sanity but it is true... but you know me... I am consistent and against cigarettes as well...lol Butch

MrRodgers -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 12:52:39 PM)
Ok, execute them. But then there are as likely a few million, political, military and capitalist/fascists profiteering scum that should also be shot. Probably at least a few of which in the Indonesian govt., courts and police.

HunterCA -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 1:48:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers Ok, execute them. But then there are as likely a few million, political, military and capitalist/fascists profiteering scum that should also be shot. Probably at least a few of which in the Indonesian govt., courts and police. Okay, this has to stop. Let me help you. Stalin was a "Socialist". The called it international socialism so they could go and subvert governments in other countries. Hitler was a....come on now you know....National Socialist or a Facist. Fascism is left wing not right wing. I know you have an aversion to admitting your Facist roots. But, let's try and get it straight and stop making things up. The Free Market (capitalism being a socialist term and not correct), is not Facist. Leftist politics is fascist. Own it and be proud.

JVoV -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 1:53:46 PM)
First of all, travelling out of the safety of your home country to knowingly commit a crime leaves you at the mercy of the arresting country/locality. Not even our own Constitution follows us around the world. How a government chooses to penalize its criminals is completely out of our control. And that's how it should be, so that countries can decide for themselves what crimes are severe enough for incarceration and/or the death penalty. If anything, drug dealers should unite and boycott Indonesia. Their people & government would thank you.

Sanity -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 2:06:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV First of all, travelling out of the safety of your home country to knowingly commit a crime leaves you at the mercy of the arresting country/locality. Not even our own Constitution follows us around the world. How a government chooses to penalize its criminals is completely out of our control. And that's how it should be, so that countries can decide for themselves what crimes are severe enough for incarceration and/or the death penalty. If anything, drug dealers should unite and boycott Indonesia. Their people & government would thank you. The least the two drug running ring leaders could do, is accept their Darwin awards with grace They were in a Muslim country WTF did they think would happen if they got caught strapping over seventeen pounds of heroin to ther pet mules there

HunterCA -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 2:42:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JVoV First of all, travelling out of the safety of your home country to knowingly commit a crime leaves you at the mercy of the arresting country/locality. Not even our own Constitution follows us around the world. How a government chooses to penalize its criminals is completely out of our control. And that's how it should be, so that countries can decide for themselves what crimes are severe enough for incarceration and/or the death penalty. If anything, drug dealers should unite and boycott Indonesia. Their people & government would thank you. Lol, having unknowingly committed a crime and thrown in jail for it in Singapore, I will attest to what you've said.

slvemike4u -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 4:03:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Yea... then when you get high and kill a love one or innocent because of your "no one has the right to tell me" you may change your mind... Despite what you think the majority of addicts have no control and are often killers of innocent's and themselves. Plus the cost of rehabbing and medical care drives up insurance to those that already have problems paying it... AND lets not talk about the families destroyed dealing with addicted relatives. Your type of attitude is what makes demand for the drugs in the first place... you are weak and childish to take mind altering drugs in the first place... can't you make it in the real world...NORMAl... is your pleasure worth even ONE life? Butch Butch I always figured anyone using drugs as an excuse for having committed cold blooded murder was a guy giving the rest of us drug users a bad name. That ,as far as I was true held true for rape burglary mugging.....cookie stealing. After my brother died of leukemia(he was 34,I was the bone marrow donar)I tried to kill myself through rampant drug use,prior to this I used recreationaly, I never lost my moral compass due to drugs.....and I was screwed up. Never considered doing any act of which I was constitutionally incapable of doing . Now that was just me and my experience YMMV [:D]

slvemike4u -> RE: Two more pointless deaths in the War on Drugs (4/30/2015 4:06:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Yea... then when you get high and kill a love one or innocent because of your "no one has the right to tell me" you may change your mind... Despite what you think the majority of addicts have no control and are often killers of innocent's and themselves. Plus the cost of rehabbing and medical care drives up insurance to those that already have problems paying it... AND lets not talk about the families destroyed dealing with addicted relatives. Your type of attitude is what makes demand for the drugs in the first place... you are weak and childish to take mind altering drugs in the first place... can't you make it in the real world...NORMAl... is your pleasure worth even ONE life? Butch Whats really weird is how (mostly those on the left, certainly not Libertarians) are in the middle of a decades long war on "big tobacco" or peoples' rights to enjoy a little nicotine before they die... While at the same time we are hearing this cacophony of pro-legalizing drugs sentiment from many of them If you are really going to legalize heroine, why cant I have my twenty cent pack of cigarettes back Perhaps due to the cost of all of the end of life assistance you will need, But fuck that,for you cigarettes should be twenty cents and the supply should be unlimited [:D] Now won't you please come to Washington to see Hillary take her oath ?

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.0625