Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission

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kyang777 -> Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/11/2015 7:33:11 PM)
Dear Mistresses: I am reading Elise Sutton's online book, she said that there are several subtle and powerful psychological ways to get into submissive man's heads, including making man to shave pubic hair, body hair, but the dominate woman will keep all the hairs, she said that over the time, with other things like corporal discipline, queening and strapon, the man will be transformed little by little. What do you think? Will it works? Any thoughts?

Gauge -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/11/2015 7:48:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyang777 Dear Mistresses: I am reading Elise Sutton's online book, she said that there are several subtle and powerful psychological ways to get into submissive man's heads, including making man to shave pubic hair, body hair, but the dominate woman will keep all the hairs, she said that over the time, with other things like corporal discipline, queening and strapon, the man will be transformed little by little. What do you think? Will it works? Any thoughts? Transformed into what? A submissive?

kyang777 -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/11/2015 7:51:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge quote: ORIGINAL: kyang777 Dear Mistresses: I am reading Elise Sutton's online book, she said that there are several subtle and powerful psychological ways to get into submissive man's heads, including making man to shave pubic hair, body hair, but the dominate woman will keep all the hairs, she said that over the time, with other things like corporal discipline, queening and strapon, the man will be transformed little by little. What do you think? Will it works? Any thoughts? Transformed into what? A submissive? Yes, more submissive.

Gauge -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/11/2015 8:00:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyang777 Yes, more submissive. I do things to inspire submission, not to try to tinker in her head in the hopes that I come up with something that will transform her. I bring it out in her, in everything I do, oddly, very little of what I do to her sexually makes her more submissive. What I do to her sexually is when she gets to show me her submission. You may have markedly different results.

Bhruic -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/11/2015 10:06:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyang777 Dear Mistresses: I am reading Elise Sutton's online book, she said that there are several subtle and powerful psychological ways to get into submissive man's heads, including making man to shave pubic hair, body hair, but the dominate woman will keep all the hairs, she said that over the time, with other things like corporal discipline, queening and strapon, the man will be transformed little by little. What do you think? Will it works? Any thoughts? I think, for a man especially, having their body shaved makes them feel more exposed and vulnerable, and so I can see it adding to the feeling of submission, for a man who already wants to submit anyway.

NookieNotes -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/12/2015 2:46:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyang777 I am reading Elise Sutton's online book, she said that there are several subtle and powerful psychological ways to get into submissive man's heads, including making man to shave pubic hair, body hair, but the dominate woman will keep all the hairs, she said that over the time, with other things like corporal discipline, queening and strapon, the man will be transformed little by little. What do you think? Will it works? Any thoughts? Will it work? Maybe. But... 1. Why would I want to transform a man? I prefer men to come to me, eager and willing with the possibility of service, then help them do so in the best way possible. 2. I HATE HATE HATE shaved men. Ewww. It creeps me out. I like natural body hair on men. It's sexy. 3. I think it's particularly silly when men read things like this, then begin to think that they need to transform themselves, become the perfect "book" submissive, when it takes them further and further from submissive, and into kinky fantasy land. quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge I do things to inspire submission, not to try to tinker in her head in the hopes that I come up with something that will transform her. I bring it out in her, in everything I do, oddly, very little of what I do to her sexually makes her more submissive. What I do to her sexually is when she gets to show me her submission. Yes, this is my preferred method. To me, submission is a part of who you are. Humiliation, like shaving full body, is a different thing altogether, and is part of the play that goes along with a good D/s relationship. It should not, however, be confused with submission. smiles

Aibo -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/12/2015 3:01:42 AM)
Many years ago when I came home to the house I shared with my first girlfriend I got a small shock since she had shaved her head. Yes I got seriously surprised, since we weren't that deep into SM. We had a 'bedroom-sib' kind of relationship. So that was quite a leap on her part. Quite some years later, my slave girl also went to shave hear head and without consulting me, so she got what she deserved from that. :P Anyhow, that about female submissives, but I have also noted at SM meetups at various kinds that male subs also quite often got a shaved head. So yes there's something to this, and that something is objectification.

NookieNotes -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/12/2015 5:47:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aibo Many years ago when I came home to the house I shared with my first girlfriend I got a small shock since she had shaved her head. Yes I got seriously surprised, since we weren't that deep into SM. We had a 'bedroom-sib' kind of relationship. So that was quite a leap on her part. Quite some years later, my slave girl also went to shave hear head and without consulting me, so she got what she deserved from that. :P Anyhow, that about female submissives, but I have also noted at SM meetups at various kinds that male subs also quite often got a shaved head. So yes there's something to this, and that something is objectification. But in the cases you are referring to, they are objectifying themselves. I find that presumptuous and creepy, and would NOT want it in a sub. I can find my own forms of objectification that I enjoy.

MiaCastle -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/12/2015 8:11:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyang777 Dear Mistresses: I am reading Elise Sutton's online book, she said that there are several subtle and powerful psychological ways to get into submissive man's heads, including making man to shave pubic hair, body hair, but the dominate woman will keep all the hairs, she said that over the time, with other things like corporal discipline, queening and strapon, the man will be transformed little by little. What do you think? Will it works? Any thoughts? Why would I deny my own pleasure by shaving off what I want to pull? I don't put much worth in other dominant's teaching submissive's how it is best for a dominant to train them. The need for a submissive man to learn about dominant women in hopes of finding a dominant and in wanting to fulfill their desires, is often used by those that are making money off their needs. You may have one dominant woman speaking for most dominant women and what I know about dominant women is that you don't take it for granted that a dominant woman would be grateful for that. This seems that someone is putting dominant women and submissive men in a square room, sitting at a table with crayons and coloring books and telling them to stay in the room and color in the lines. Conforming to elementary life isn't a desire of mine and is exactly what I snubbed my nose at when I did things my way. I train my men and don't need anyone's assistance. I don't want prior programing I have to deprogram, in a man lost enough to believe that one woman could speak for another and would need instruction on how to be a dominant woman. Stop being tricked by smart women taking advantage of the needs submissive men may have seeking a dominant woman and spend more time finding a woman you like and respect and get it straight from the dominant woman. You can't read a fairy tale princess story and know a real life woman that could be your princess if you hadn't listened to that person telling you what all the princesses' want or should do to you. Mia

NookieNotes -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/12/2015 8:44:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MiaCastle quote: ORIGINAL: kyang777 Dear Mistresses: I am reading Elise Sutton's online book, she said that there are several subtle and powerful psychological ways to get into submissive man's heads, including making man to shave pubic hair, body hair, but the dominate woman will keep all the hairs, she said that over the time, with other things like corporal discipline, queening and strapon, the man will be transformed little by little. What do you think? Will it works? Any thoughts? Why would I deny my own pleasure by shaving off what I want to pull? I don't put much worth in other dominant's teaching submissive's how it is best for a dominant to train them. The need for a submissive man to learn about dominant women in hopes of finding a dominant and in wanting to fulfill their desires, is often used by those that are making money off their needs. You may have one dominant woman speaking for most dominant women and what I know about dominant women is that you don't take it for granted that a dominant woman would be grateful for that. This seems that someone is putting dominant women and submissive men in a square room, sitting at a table with crayons and coloring books and telling them to stay in the room and color in the lines. Conforming to elementary life isn't a desire of mine and is exactly what I snubbed my nose at when I did things my way. I train my men and don't need anyone's assistance. I don't want prior programing I have to deprogram, in a man lost enough to believe that one woman could speak for another and would need instruction on how to be a dominant woman. Stop being tricked by smart women taking advantage of the needs submissive men may have seeking a dominant woman and spend more time finding a woman you like and respect and get it straight from the dominant woman. You can't read a fairy tale princess story and know a real life woman that could be your princess if you hadn't listened to that person telling you what all the princesses' want or should do to you. Mia Well, I agree and disagree... Then again, I make money off kink, so take what I say with a grain of salt. But here goes: I think there is a lot to learn for submissive men and women and dominant men and women. I believe there are very few people teaching or mentoring. I provide that. For a fee, sometimes. For trade others, and for friends for free. Learning what submission means to you, and the different types of submissive roles is useful. Learning how to bow in a very particular way, not so much. Learning the many different FLR arrangements and how they might work is useful (especially to pick what appeals to you). Learning how to groom yourself to be attractive to ladies, nope. What we do as dominants and submissives is very personal. The specifics are up to the individuals. The reasons and drives are more learnable. In my admittedly profiting opinion. smiles

MiaCastle -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/12/2015 9:09:35 AM)
Nothing is 100% and everything could have an exception, a disclaimer or condition. I sometimes speak in absolutes thinking that people can figure things out for themselves and by an adult age, I think many have some things figured out. I base this on the teenagers and young adults I've known that knew everything. Let them fly, who am I to tether them? Life is about learning and living and I have a problem with helpless people that don't know how to find out what they want to know. So picking up a book is a smart idea, unless you find self help books are more about someone else helping themselves. The good books are far fewer than the bad ones in my opinion. If you see something you want, you need to learn how to get it. If there are skills to it, you may need an education, mentoring or being exposed to it. That is reasonable. Have you seen some of the books that tell men how to get a woman? I checked a few out wondering what men were being told to do and why I was seeing what I was seeing in life and online. These books are crazy! I've seen some femdom books just as crazy. I haven't read your books and don't know them, but I have read some of your post, so you may be an exception to the norm as I see it. Life is a good teacher if we get out there and live it. I trust that.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/12/2015 9:21:47 AM)
I'm a Top, not a dominant so keep that in mind. If someone told me they thought shaving off all their hair would transform them into a submissive; I'd hand them a pair of tweezers, instead of a razor, and tell them to pluck the hairs, individually one by one. That's just me though.

MiaCastle -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/12/2015 9:32:16 AM)
I love it!

NookieNotes -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/12/2015 10:39:37 AM)
Oh, I don't take exception to what you say. Just to be clear. I have learned a lot from books and mentors in my past, so I pass that on. It's better for some than others. I know that I needed (and still do) the books I read (over 500 in sex, love and romance, including kink) to get all the POVs I then review and discard for my own personal view. smiles Thank you for the exception possibility. [:)] quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance I'm a Top, not a dominant so keep that in mind. If someone told me they thought shaving off all their hair would transform them into a submissive; I'd hand them a pair of tweezers, instead of a razor, and tell them to pluck the hairs, individually one by one. That's just me though. gigglesnorts

LipstickLeuger -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/12/2015 4:51:58 PM)
I am not into this type of humiliation play, so I would never agree to shave my head. I am kinda attached to my hair [:D] . If my Dom ordered that of me in order to 'transform' me into a better submissive, I would feel very unsafe and guarded with that Dom. It would make me wonder why they felt a need to 'transform' me, instead of teach/train me, and why they could not encourage me to give my power/submission to them in another way.

dreamlady -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/12/2015 8:59:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kyang777 Dear Mistresses: I am reading Elise Sutton's online book, she said that there are several subtle and powerful psychological ways to get into submissive man's heads, including making man to shave pubic hair, body hair, but the dominate woman will keep all the hairs, she said that over the time, with other things like corporal discipline, queening and strapon, the man will be transformed little by little. What do you think? Will it works? Any thoughts? Although the closest F/m dynamic I choose resembles an FLR, this is one of the reasons why I don't adhere to the "traditional" FLR model. Granted, I've only read excerpts of Elise Sutton's writings and have not studied her works mainly because the Female Supremacist thinking interwoven throughout was enough to turn me off. Many of these precepts were originally based upon having to transform your husband into a man who will be submissive to you and accept your authority and control, and then reinforcing his submission routinely through acts of humiliation or debasement, those of putting him in his place. If a man is naturally submissive and willing to please his wife, the kind of man who puts a woman on a pedestal, then he should be willing to be self-motivated to be a good husband and a good lover without having to be psychologically conditioned into becoming subordinate to his wife. The type of man who has to be "trained" into submission by a handler, is the type of man who will rebel against it or else passive-aggressively act out. Either that, or you will end up breaking a man's spirit in the process of breaking him in, the same as with breaking in a horse. An expert horse trainer - any animal trainer - would never do this, and a man's (or woman's) spirit should be no less honored than a tamed animal's, who naturally bonds by showing affection, loyalty and devotion to its Owner without any show of brute force or being subjected to acts of degradation. A man, like a dog, is also wired to be fiercely protective. I prefer a fully-maned, spirited horse to ride. [;)] DreamLady

NookieNotes -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/13/2015 3:15:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady The type of man who has to be "trained" into submission by a handler, is the type of man who will rebel against it or else passive-aggressively act out. Agreed. These are the types of men women talk about when they say that a man becomes unruly after he orgasms. I've even heard he gasp "acts like a man again." As if acting like a man is a bad thing. At least it's not if you chose the right man to begin with. In my view, anyway.

WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/13/2015 4:00:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady The type of man who has to be "trained" into submission by a handler, is the type of man who will rebel against it or else passive-aggressively act out. Agreed. These are the types of men women talk about when they say that a man becomes unruly after he orgasms. I've even heard he gasp "acts like a man again." As if acting like a man is a bad thing. At least it's not if you chose the right man to begin with. In my view, anyway. I don't think, in most cases, that these men are submissive. I think they are fetishists who have been pigeonholed into thinking they have to identify as submissive to satisfy their fetish.

NookieNotes -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/13/2015 7:12:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: dreamlady The type of man who has to be "trained" into submission by a handler, is the type of man who will rebel against it or else passive-aggressively act out. Agreed. These are the types of men women talk about when they say that a man becomes unruly after he orgasms. I've even heard he gasp "acts like a man again." As if acting like a man is a bad thing. At least it's not if you chose the right man to begin with. In my view, anyway. I don't think, in most cases, that these men are submissive. I think they are fetishists who have been pigeonholed into thinking they have to identify as submissive to satisfy their fetish. Yes. I agree. I'm not sure what that says about the women who take them on as submisssive, and who create these elaborate ploys to keep them in submission.

masmiss -> RE: Shaving body hair and the psychology of submission (5/14/2015 2:58:50 PM)
I've long been of the mind that "Elise Sutton" is a man who wrote books and online articles about male submission because it was sexually stimulating to him. OK, I know that doesn't answer your question or help you. I just had to let it out. [:)] We now return to our regularly scheduled program.

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