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RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 4:50:57 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Why would you use an example the ramblings of Scalia? He goes on and on about the structure of government mandated in the Constitution and the division of power it creates. He holds this division as a guarantor of our democracy that separates us from other pretenders to true democracy.

Then he rants against the 17th that in itself allows for division of power in states with single party majorities. In my state of Missouri without the direct election of Senators by the people the majority of the population, in big cities, would have no representatives in the Senate. Rural Republicans representing the minority of population would appoint Republican Senators ignoring the majority's wishes.

Not good in my opinion...let the people speak.

Butch

When the minority is thus silenced, whats left is mob rule. Or two wolves and a sheep using the democratic process to decide whats for dinner


Wow, since you hate our country, why not move to North Korea? Then you wouldn't have the problem of a government designed to work for the majority of people.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 6:07:24 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Why would you use an example the ramblings of Scalia? He goes on and on about the structure of government mandated in the Constitution and the division of power it creates. He holds this division as a guarantor of our democracy that separates us from other pretenders to true democracy.

Then he rants against the 17th that in itself allows for division of power in states with single party majorities. In my state of Missouri without the direct election of Senators by the people the majority of the population, in big cities, would have no representatives in the Senate. Rural Republicans representing the minority of population would appoint Republican Senators ignoring the majority's wishes.

Not good in my opinion...let the people speak.

Butch

When the minority is thus silenced, whats left is mob rule. Or two wolves and a sheep using the democratic process to decide whats for dinner


Wow, since you hate our country, why not move to North Korea? Then you wouldn't have the problem of a government designed to work for the majority of people.


Quit projecting on me.

And I have very clearly illustrated the problem with pure democracy already, a problem which the founders sought to ameliorate with the form of government they devised



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(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 7:21:48 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		No in Missouri we have one from each party

Rual Missouri controls the legislature and the house reps...is that fair enough for you?

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RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 7:24:24 PM   
lovmuffin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It's Thursday so let's repeal the 2nd amendment.
There's a measles outbreak so let's repeal the 2nd amendment.



"The day ends with a y so lets hijack another thread for our mindless far left obfuscation crap"


Whoms idea should we try first ?


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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 7:27:27 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

It's Thursday so let's repeal the 2nd amendment.
There's a measles outbreak so let's repeal the 2nd amendment.



"The day ends with a y so lets hijack another thread for our mindless far left obfuscation crap"


Whoms idea should we try first ?


lol


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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 7:55:39 PM   
GotSteel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
And I have very clearly illustrated the problem with pure democracy already, a problem which the founders sought to ameliorate with the form of government they devised

We don't have a pure democracy, no one's suggesting that we get a pure democracy. Its a red herring in this conversation, really just you ranting consense.

You're suggesting that we break the form of government we do have, I'm suggesting that we might be happier if you left America to the real Americans. And also making a point that governments which are made to work for some fringe minority instead of the majority have a notable tendency to work quite poorly for the majority of citizens.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 8:11:05 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		Scalia is a bit of an idiot, frankly. The reason the USA is free is:

(1) The Atlantic Ocean to the East.

(2) The Pacific Ocean to the West

(3) Canada to the North

(4) Mexico to the South

--------

With such benign geography, Russia might be the leading free nation of the world.

---------

I would also go the other way from Scalia, b/c I think we need better government, not weaker government. If I was to monkey with Congress I would: Double the number of House Reprentatives and I would grant (1) extra senator to the ten most populous states and give Washington DC representation in Congress (house members and senators.)

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 5/14/2015 8:17:49 PM >

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 8:17:37 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Scalia is a bit of an idiot, frankly. The reason the USA is free is:

(1) The Atlantic Ocean to the East.

(2) The Pacific Ocean to the West

(3) Canada to the North

(4) Mexico to the South

--------

With such benign geography, Russia might be the leading free nation of the world.

By free you must mean not dominated by another country.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 8:21:16 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		Joe

I use the 17th and 2nd 'deal' to get your attention at how important the 17th amendment actually is to America. Since some like to use 'Capitalism' as our form of currency, there is a cost to removing the 17th amendment. That cost is the removal of the 2nd amendment. If you want it badly enough, you'll agree to remove the 2nd.....

They are not related, there is no connection, you are not in a position to make such a deal and no sane person would consider it. But then anything to get rid of the 2nd amendment.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 5/14/2015 8:28:40 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 8:27:33 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Scalia is a bit of an idiot, frankly. The reason the USA is free is:

(1) The Atlantic Ocean to the East.

(2) The Pacific Ocean to the West

(3) Canada to the North

(4) Mexico to the South

--------

With such benign geography, Russia might be the leading free nation of the world.

---------

I would also go the other way from Scalia, b/c I think we need better government, not weaker government. If I was to monkey with Congress I would: Double the number of House Reprentatives and I would grant (1) extra senator to the ten most populous states and give Washington DC representation in Congress (house members and senators.)


By idiot you mean not agreeing with "me" and my very small group of kool aide drinking buddies who meet in my garage once a month and talk down the "Man". Right?


< Message edited by HunterCA -- 5/14/2015 8:28:51 PM >

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 8:34:42 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Scalia is a bit of an idiot, frankly. The reason the USA is free is:

(1) The Atlantic Ocean to the East.

(2) The Pacific Ocean to the West

(3) Canada to the North

(4) Mexico to the South

--------

With such benign geography, Russia might be the leading free nation of the world.

---------

I would also go the other way from Scalia, b/c I think we need better government, not weaker government. If I was to monkey with Congress I would: Double the number of House Reprentatives and I would grant (1) extra senator to the ten most populous states and give Washington DC representation in Congress (house members and senators.)


By idiot you mean not agreeing with "me" and my very small group of kool aide drinking buddies who meet in my garage once a month and talk down the "Man". Right?




I mean, you'd be right in there, Cloudboy, with the rest. Obviously Thomas is the stud.

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/ruth-bader-ginsburg-asks-someone-to-wake-her-when-scalia-stops-talking


(in reply to HunterCA)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 8:43:21 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Why would you use an example the ramblings of Scalia? He goes on and on about the structure of government mandated in the Constitution and the division of power it creates. He holds this division as a guarantor of our democracy that separates us from other pretenders to true democracy.

Then he rants against the 17th that in itself allows for division of power in states with single party majorities. In my state of Missouri without the direct election of Senators by the people the majority of the population, in big cities, would have no representatives in the Senate. Rural Republicans representing the minority of population would appoint Republican Senators ignoring the majority's wishes.

Not good in my opinion...let the people speak.

Butch

When the minority is thus silenced, whats left is mob rule. Or two wolves and a sheep using the democratic process to decide whats for dinner


Wow, since you hate our country, why not move to North Korea? Then you wouldn't have the problem of a government designed to work for the majority of people.


Quit projecting on me.

And I have very clearly illustrated the problem with pure democracy already, a problem which the founders sought to ameliorate with the form of government they devised




For contextual clarity.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/14/2015 9:10:01 PM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
For contextual clarity.




Wow is your head so full of consense that you think you've got some sort of a valid point...

Even your attempt at "contextual clarity" is compromised by editing out one of my responses.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/15/2015 7:54:47 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
For contextual clarity.




Wow is your head so full of consense that you think you've got some sort of a valid point...

Even your attempt at "contextual clarity" is compromised by editing out one of my responses.



Youre higher than NASA's Voyager space craft

Nothing was edited, you fool

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/15/2015 8:05:45 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
FR

To clarify my argument, and reduce the noise-to-signal ratio of the trolls here:

Using the popular vote to choose a senator is still representative democracy, yes. Though it is closer to pure democracy than to have state representatives appoint senators

A point well illustrated by the above arguments suggesting that choosing candidates via the popular vote gives more power to the majority over the minority

Power to the majority being somewhat akin to mob rule in practice

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/15/2015 8:25:50 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		and minority rule is despotism, and dictatorship.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/15/2015 8:38:36 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

and minority rule is despotism, and dictatorship.


If anyone here were arguing in favor of minority rule, you might almost have a point there

Minority representation is the key issue here





< Message edited by Sanity -- 5/15/2015 8:40:33 AM >

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Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/15/2015 8:51:22 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		minorities are represented. The democratic minority is represented in the house and senate of America, even as we speak.

Of course, we are being run by mob rule of the rabid right at present.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/15/2015 9:25:24 AM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


When the minority is thus silenced, whats left is mob rule. Or two wolves and a sheep using the democratic process to decide whats for dinner


Are you making an argument for affirmative action here?

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Should the 17th Amendment be Repealed? - 5/15/2015 9:26:53 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity
Youre higher than NASA's Voyager space craft

Nothing was edited, you fool


Except post 26

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 40
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