RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (Full Version)

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Sanity -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 10:58:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

You played the "mom" card or the "woman" card and then used ridicule. It's a reference to common ways leftists use to shut down discussion, such as by playing the "race" card. If you look nobody said that you played the "race" card.


And then typically (when called on it) they play the "dense" card

Too thick to have any clue about what it is that you are trying so patiently to explain



Lucylastic -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 11:02:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

You played the "mom" card or the "woman" card and then used ridicule. It's a reference to common ways leftists use to shut down discussion, such as by playing the "race" card. If you look nobody said that you played the "race" card.


And then typically (when called on it) they play the "dense" card

Too thick to have any clue about what it is that you are trying so patiently to explain




oh joy....have fun with the trolling boys....
ciao....Ive got better things to do do than be discussed by amateurs.



KenDckey -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 11:02:27 AM)

I read the article. I was a single parent of 2. And I think this person is an idiot.



Lucylastic -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 11:03:25 AM)

way to go Ken!!!:)



KenDckey -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 11:04:31 AM)

Thanks Lucy LOL



PeonForHer -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 11:04:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

He concludes:

"Alas, the problem is that this sort of thinking is a dominating force on American campuses."

Come on. The man's a cuckoo clock.


And Saul Alinsky always said, never argue your opponents point. Always just ridicule him instead.


If you and the author want to provide evidence that this notion is, in fact, an example of a 'dominating force on American campuses', Hunter, I'd be delighted to see it.



HunterCA -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 11:16:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA
Really? Playing the "mom" card rather than the "race" card.

quote:

If you look nobody said that you played the "race" card.

And I didnt say you did, I asked why I would.
btw..being a mom and a woman ISNT playing "cards" its what I am, physically emotionally and mentally. inside and outside.
I cant help it...just as you cant help being what you are.




Oh Lucy, here is what you said. If you meant below what you say you meant above, you would not have added the niner niner "it's certainly not an experience you have or will ever have...I don't expect you to see....

as a woman, and a mother....yes....Ive been there, done that....
its certainly not an experience you have or will ever have....
I dont expect you....to see it any other way, than you have already stated.


(in reply to HunterCA)



HunterCA -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 11:20:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

He concludes:

"Alas, the problem is that this sort of thinking is a dominating force on American campuses."

Come on. The man's a cuckoo clock.


And Saul Alinsky always said, never argue your opponents point. Always just ridicule him instead.


If you and the author want to provide evidence that this notion is, in fact, an example of a 'dominating force on American campuses', Hunter, I'd be delighted to see it.


Ah, and that is one of the points. In the last couple of weeks there have been links aplenty in other threads, education thread, perpetual complainers thread, and others, demonstrating a prevalence. Apparently you've not noticed them, or it's not clicking now, that those links have already been provided.



HunterCA -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 11:22:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I read the article. I was a single parent of 2. And I think this person is an idiot.


Okay, so in what way is the person an idiot and if you do establish that, how is that idiocy demonstrated in this article? After all, reading your post you don't actually discuss the article and this is a discussion thread.



Sanity -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 11:23:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

oh joy....have fun with the trolling boys....
ciao....Ive got better things to do do than be discussed by amateurs.



I call that one the "double down" [:D]



HunterCA -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 11:26:59 AM)

I'd already thanked her for leaving. I was polite. Now she says she has better things to do than be discussed by amatures. I suppose those better things, then, are to go and be discussed by professionals.



Aylee -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 11:32:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I read the article. I was a single parent of 2. And I think this person is an idiot.


Kathleen McCartney or John Podhoretz?

Because, “Motherhood is a cultural invention. It reflects a belief adopted by society that is passed down from one generation to the next.”

Sounds rather nutty to me.

Also from the original piece, "Our cultural construction of motherhood is rooted in a particularly strong American bias toward personal responsibility, reflected across our social policies."

Personal responsibility, the HORROR!!!!!



KenDckey -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 12:32:05 PM)

Not the guy that wrote this particular article, the concept of just dumpping our kids in child care arthor is the idiot in my opinion. I agree with personal responsibility.



PeonForHer -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 12:52:18 PM)

quote:



Ah, and that is one of the points. In the last couple of weeks there have been links aplenty in other threads, education thread, perpetual complainers thread, and others, demonstrating a prevalence. Apparently you've not noticed them, or it's not clicking now, that those links have already been provided.


Nup, I haven't seen this evidence. I must be stupid. [:)] Where would I find the evidence that shows that the belief that 'motherhood is a social construct' is a 'dominating force in colleges', as the article's author states?




HunterCA -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 1:00:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:



Ah, and that is one of the points. In the last couple of weeks there have been links aplenty in other threads, education thread, perpetual complainers thread, and others, demonstrating a prevalence. Apparently you've not noticed them, or it's not clicking now, that those links have already been provided.


Nup, I haven't seen this evidence. I must be stupid. [:)] Where would I find the evidence that shows that the belief that 'motherhood is a social construct' is a 'dominating force in colleges', as the article's author states?




Nobody said you were stupid.



Kaliko -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 1:12:03 PM)

I read your link. And then I read the original piece in The Boston Globe. It seems to make sense to me. To paraphrase the Boston Globe article, Americans are vehement about personal responsibility, which is why our social policies don't favor childcare help and family leave time for new (or not so new) parents. We've made it this way. If we were living in another time or place, shared childrearing responsibilities would be expected.

Am I missing something that I'm supposed to be offended by?



epiphiny43 -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 1:20:33 PM)

The OP linked writer needs some education. Current behavioral scientists are fully cognizant that ALL language is social constructs and are wary of using labels without due caution. Gravity, in fact, is a word that is a social construct. Being such does not mean the term doesn't have useful relations to whatever Reality underlies the models we deliberately create or the ones we implicitly assume from the words we are taught or the sensory experiences we interpret, most of which are Strongly influenced by the reactions and behaviors of others we observe during our personal socialization as a child, biggest of which is learning our culture's language. Only mono-lingual Westerners are as sure only one Reality exists. Those who speak different languages know there are subtle and less subtle differences in the reality communicated by each language.
The linked writer is also quite ignorant of the vast number of other species besides humans who have 'altricial' (helpless at birth, dependent on close attending caretakers for survival.) young at birth or hatching. "Motherhood" has been universal for human societies, HOW it's practiced varies with the cultural practices of each group and how the previous generation experienced child rearing. Western ignorance of the variations world wide in human societies is taken as proof we are all the same. BZZZT! Wrong.
The criticism of social programs that were designed to bring more of society to some basic level of income and living standard is miss placed and again, ignorant. The driving force pre-50s in general welfare floor rising was the union movement and the economic/employment boom during WWII. As the society returned to a post-war stability, a number of economic and political forces emasculated and mooted the move to living wages by worker cooperatives. The middle class is now vanishing as they bought the Kool-Aid of the wealthy preaching a 'rising tide lifts all boats'. What actually happened is concentration of wealth and the growing impoverishment of the working class returned to late 18th century curves. Ones Progressives then changed as urban poverty and massive social unrest threatened all stability. The first President Roosevelt being a prime mover in bringing rampant capitalism under reasonable regulation.



bounty44 -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 3:00:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:



Ah, and that is one of the points. In the last couple of weeks there have been links aplenty in other threads, education thread, perpetual complainers thread, and others, demonstrating a prevalence. Apparently you've not noticed them, or it's not clicking now, that those links have already been provided.


Nup, I haven't seen this evidence. I must be stupid. [:)] Where would I find the evidence that shows that the belief that 'motherhood is a social construct' is a 'dominating force in colleges', as the article's author states?




a couple of things---one is, its pretty clear to me the author is not specifically referring to "motherhood is a social construct" when he says "alas, this sort of thinking...," he is referring to the overarching post modernistic attribute of rejecting tradition, rejecting what is self-evident, and embracing the absurd.

the other is, i would say as ive said elsewhere in the forums, on the whole campuses are bastions of liberal thought, and "this sort of thinking..." goes with the territory.



PeonForHer -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 3:06:03 PM)

quote:

a couple of things---one is, its pretty clear to me the author is not specifically referring to "motherhood is a social construct" when he says "alas, this sort of thinking...," he is referring to the overarching post modernistic concept of rejecting tradition and of what is self-evident.

the other is, i would say as ive said elsewhere in the forums, on the whole campuses are bastions of liberal thought, and "this sort of thinking..." goes with the territory.


The author's portraying what he considers to be a *very* radical social theory. It's not my experience that most students buy into very radical social theories - including this one (as he casts it). This is why I'd like to see the evidence that they do. As it stands, the author's concluding remark just looks like a piece of throwaway prejudice and a stereotype.



PeonForHer -> RE: The latest Post Modern Target: Motherhood (5/16/2015 3:15:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

I read your link. And then I read the original piece in The Boston Globe. It seems to make sense to me. To paraphrase the Boston Globe article, Americans are vehement about personal responsibility, which is why our social policies don't favor childcare help and family leave time for new (or not so new) parents. We've made it this way. If we were living in another time or place, shared childrearing responsibilities would be expected.

Am I missing something that I'm supposed to be offended by?


Is this the piece:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2015/dgreenfield/boston-globe-celebrates-mothers-day-motherhood-is-a-cultural-invention/

... ?

It seems pretty damned unremarkable to me. She's trying to unearth reasons why, for instance ...

"... Our cultural construction of motherhood is rooted in a particularly strong American bias toward personal responsibility, reflected across our social policies. This is why, in the United States, my daughter’s three-month paid leave is considered generous. In Sweden, where new mothers are guaranteed 16 months paid leave, it would be laughable. The United States ranks last among 38 developed nations in paid parental leave benefits: we guarantee none." [My bolds].

There's a pretty prevalent tendency, in these 'nature v nurture' debates, for supporters of the 'nature' side to overstate the 'nurture' side of the debate. 'Straw-man' it, basically. Thus, the argument that 'motherhood is a social construct' is taken to imply that nothing biological is involved *at all*. No hormonal change, no 'baby-brain' in the mother (even radical feminist friends have reported that), no nurturing drive at all. Even if a university don were to be stupid enough to argue that (which would make you wonder how he or she got to be a university don in the first place), no one is going to buy it.



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