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Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers were... - 5/21/2015 3:45:28 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Time to be honest and take more heat being accused as a racists with my personal opinion...Well I think it is an important disccusion and in the minds of many whites.... right or wrong I think it needs to be talked about...what do you think.

Some activists have been suggesting that the Waco biker incident in Texas would be handled differently if the bikers were black with gang colors. This way of thinking, in my opinion, is one of the reasons blacks in general are a big part of their own problem.

First they complained that the bikers were not identified as white.. Will it seems there are blacks and whites in the gangs.

Please set me straight but were there not nine bikers killed at least four by police…and 170 arrested on the spot and charged with felony engaging in organized criminal activity with bonds set at $1 million… how does this compare to the riots in Ferguson and Baltimore?

Were rioters killed in Ferguson?
Were rioters arrested on the spot and charged with felonies in Ferguson? Not at the time of the riots anyway… later yes a very few.
Did bikers break into business and loot them?
Did bikers burn businesses down?
Did bikes throw stones, bricks, cinder blocks, and Molotov cocktails at police?
Did bikers threaten to rape the police officers children?
Did bikers spit in the officers faces and call them vile names?
Did bikers shoot police?

I have zero sympathy for the assholes but It seems to me that the bikers were cracked down on much harder than blacks so what the hell do blacks have to complain about in comparison?

It is the “I have no fault and it is always the police fault first and white man second” attitude that holds blacks back and pisses off well meaning whites and people of other races. This attitude cements negatives feelings of blacks in their minds.

I think many will agree there are valid problems in the black community and yes still prejudice but when every discussion starts with the white man this and the white man that people of good faith that want to help are driven away.

I agree there needs to be change in policing … I agree there is still prejudice… I am glad to see some of the changes that have already taken place because of the riots…but what I don’t see is an acceptance of some responsibility in the violence and crime infesting their neighborhoods and spreading onto surrounding communities. That is no ones fault but their own…not the white man.

If you blame your problems on prejudice where it does not exist it makes if harder to find, see, and rectify the real prejudice that does. It is a fact… most whites do not see prejudice and it is up to blacks to point it out and convince them it is real… this kind of silliness over bikers will not do that.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/21/2015 4:23:10 PM >

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/21/2015 3:54:03 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		Of course it would have been different. Black lives matter. Unless killed by other blacks.

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/21/2015 3:56:03 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yes Aylee this is the real tragedy and they cannot see it through their own prejudices.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/21/2015 4:36:59 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Are you two serious or just playing the race game.

Nine dead and eighteen injured, cops shot at, of course the police had to bloody well take firm action.






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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/21/2015 5:58:43 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I agree they did... as they should... but there certainly was nothing handled and or portrayed any less severely simply because most were white... as insinuated...and the race game is exactly what they are portraying...not me...this is the point of this thread.

When the two police were shot in Ferguson... did they shoot back?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 5/21/2015 6:03:11 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/21/2015 6:55:39 PM   
JVoV


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Status: offline 		The Waco incident is strictly organized crime, not any sort of public protest, with criminal elements (organized or otherwise) taking advantage of the scene.

I don't see any possible comparison to Ferguson, or how police handled the situation.

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/21/2015 7:49:14 PM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

The Waco incident is strictly organized crime, not any sort of public protest, with criminal elements (organized or otherwise) taking advantage of the scene.

I don't see any possible comparison to Ferguson, or how police handled the situation.


I was going with the aftermath.

Protests? Paid protesters? Media coverage? Pictures of the poor little darlings when they were 14? Parents blaming the police because they are just little angels? Social media outrage? Students claiming trauma in law finals? Blog entries about how all of us non-bikers commit micro-aggressions against bikers? Blog entries about how all of us non-bikers need to just shut up and let bikers talk? A national conversation?

Have we seen ANY of this?

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/21/2015 7:50:58 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

The Waco incident is strictly organized crime, not any sort of public protest, with criminal elements (organized or otherwise) taking advantage of the scene.

I don't see any possible comparison to Ferguson, or how police handled the situation.


I was going with the aftermath.

Protests? Paid protesters? Media coverage? Pictures of the poor little darlings when they were 14? Parents blaming the police because they are just little angels? Social media outrage? Students claiming trauma in law finals? Blog entries about how all of us non-bikers commit micro-aggressions against bikers? Blog entries about how all of us non-bikers need to just shut up and let bikers talk? A national conversation?

Have we seen ANY of this?


How did the Baltimore mayor say it, give them room to destroy

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/21/2015 7:56:04 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

The Waco incident is strictly organized crime, not any sort of public protest, with criminal elements (organized or otherwise) taking advantage of the scene.

I don't see any possible comparison to Ferguson, or how police handled the situation.


I was going with the aftermath.

Protests? Paid protesters? Media coverage? Pictures of the poor little darlings when they were 14? Parents blaming the police because they are just little angels? Social media outrage? Students claiming trauma in law finals? Blog entries about how all of us non-bikers commit micro-aggressions against bikers? Blog entries about how all of us non-bikers need to just shut up and let bikers talk? A national conversation?

Have we seen ANY of this?


How did the Baltimore mayor say it, give them room to destroy


I have always thought that bikers were more the type to just TAKE what they wanted to destroy and not pussyfoot around with blaming others for the reason. I could be wrong.

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/21/2015 11:55:52 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		Then again maybe the biggest mobster organization of them all is trying to cash in on an unfortunate situation to bolster their own agendas:


quote:



Despite the characterization by police that the afternoon gathering at a Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco, Texas that led to Sunday’s bloody shooting incident was a gathering of criminal biker gangs with violent intent, the meeting appears to have been a legitimate, organized gathering of motorcycle riders meeting to discuss political issues.

snip

A look at the group’s events calendar shows that the Twin Peaks meeting was listed on the Calendar as a “Region 1 Texas COC&I Meeting”; one of a number of meeting that happen in every part of Texas on a regular basis.

snip

Looking beyond the group’s website, eyewitness reports are beginning to paint a very different picture than that the official version from the Waco police.

Halfway through this WacoTrib.com story comes an account from someone who was at event that claims the biker’s political event was interrupted by uninvited bikers from the Cossacks gang.:

Steve Cochran, a national bikers’ rights advocate from Waco who witnessed the melee, blamed the incident entirely on the Cossacks. Cochran, who is a founder of the Waco chapter of the Sons of the South, is an official with the U.S. Defenders Task Force, a legislative group affiliated with the Texas Confederacy of Clubs and Independents.

He arrived at Twin Peaks on Sunday to set up a sound system for the COC&I meeting, only to find that the violence already had started.

Bandidos members were to be part of the meeting, which was to focus on legislative issues common to all bikers, Cochran said. He said police gave no indication to him or other COC&I members that their lives might be in danger.

“These meetings have gone on for 20 years, and we’ve gone all these years without a single incident until Sunday,” he said.

http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2015/05/21/criminal-meeting-of-bikers-in-waco-was-actually-organized-political-gathering/






Its very unfortunate that those who people look to, to lead, would use scum of the earth tactics to further their own agendas.

Is it any wonder we have nations of people who wrongfully characterize literally everything to their own political spin?

The real question, how do we put the brakes on this sort of thing when even language in and of itself has been undermined by political subterfuge?










< Message edited by Real0ne -- 5/22/2015 12:21:25 AM >

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Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/22/2015 12:18:22 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Time to be honest and take more heat being accused as a racists with my personal opinion...



well... if you have racist opinions that may happen...

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/22/2015 12:28:50 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline 		isnt racism just one variant cog in the wheel of mobism?

isnt 'mobism' bred into us as 'right' since the beginning of time?

form a mob then push and shove to get everyone else to conform?

Its democracy in action is it not?





_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to eulero83)
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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/22/2015 6:35:18 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		Good Op-Ed

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/418741/one-group-definitely-doesnt-benefit-white-privilege-biker-gangs-charles-c-w-cooke

quote:

All in all, there is a pretty simple answer to the question, “Why didn’t Americans rack their brains upon hearing the news that a motorcycle gang had shot up another motorcycle gang?” That answer: Because that’s what motorcycle gangs do.




_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to Aylee)
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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/22/2015 8:07:47 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
Time to be honest and take more heat being accused as a racists with my personal opinion...Well I think it is an important disccusion and in the minds of many whites.... right or wrong I think it needs to be talked about...what do you think.
Some activists have been suggesting that the Waco biker incident in Texas would be handled differently if the bikers were black with gang colors. This way of thinking, in my opinion, is one of the reasons blacks in general are a big part of their own problem.
First they complained that the bikers were not identified as white.. Will it seems there are blacks and whites in the gangs.
Please set me straight but were there not nine bikers killed at least four by police…and 170 arrested on the spot and charged with felony engaging in organized criminal activity with bonds set at $1 million… how does this compare to the riots in Ferguson and Baltimore?


1. This wasn't a riot. Even if the biker gangs had come with the intent of violence, it's still not a riot. It's a gang war.
2. There have been accounts of bikers fleeing the scene as soon as the violence broke out, and accounts of bikers attempting to help non-biker citizens get to safety.
3. This wasn't about some group upset at the police and destroying property (Ferguson), or about some entitled kids looking to cause a scene (Baltimore).
4. Does there even have to be one reason here?!? Isn't it enough that the ones that are making a big deal over this not being treated the same way as the Baltimore and Ferguson riots are simply race-baiting?!?

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/22/2015 8:12:09 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Time to be honest and take more heat being accused as a racists with my personal opinion...



well... if you have racist opinions that may happen...

Are these racist opinions?

“Hustlers and people with little understanding want us to believe that today’s black problems are the continuing result of a legacy of slavery, poverty and racial discrimination. The fact is that most of the social pathology seen in poor black neighborhoods is entirely new in black history."

“Today’s black illegitimacy rate of nearly 75 percent is also entirely new. In 1940, black illegitimacy stood at 14 percent."

“Much of today’s pathology seen among many blacks is an outgrowth of the welfare state that has made self-destructive behavior less costly for the individual. Having children without the benefit of marriage is less burdensome if the mother receives housing subsidies, welfare payments and food stamps. Plus, the social stigma associated with unwed motherhood has vanished. Female-headed households, whether black or white, are a ticket for dependency and all of its associated problems."

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/22/2015 12:52:42 PM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Time to be honest and take more heat being accused as a racists with my personal opinion...



well... if you have racist opinions that may happen...

Are these racist opinions?

“Hustlers and people with little understanding want us to believe that today’s black problems are the continuing result of a legacy of slavery, poverty and racial discrimination. The fact is that most of the social pathology seen in poor black neighborhoods is entirely new in black history."

“Today’s black illegitimacy rate of nearly 75 percent is also entirely new. In 1940, black illegitimacy stood at 14 percent."

“Much of today’s pathology seen among many blacks is an outgrowth of the welfare state that has made self-destructive behavior less costly for the individual. Having children without the benefit of marriage is less burdensome if the mother receives housing subsidies, welfare payments and food stamps. Plus, the social stigma associated with unwed motherhood has vanished. Female-headed households, whether black or white, are a ticket for dependency and all of its associated problems."


actually yes... at least for the first two the third is just political and religious rant... they imply there is something different between white and black people that causes this degradation of the second group's life quality, that for some reasons this is not evidence for a lack of equal opportunities but that the colour of the skin has effects on some other aspects of a persona, and this is by definition racism. Maybe you and him are not even aware of being racist but you are.
By the way weren't jim crow's laws in place after the 1940? So the second opinion contradicts the first one.

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/22/2015 1:13:43 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Time to be honest and take more heat being accused as a racists with my personal opinion...



well... if you have racist opinions that may happen...

Are these racist opinions?

“Hustlers and people with little understanding want us to believe that today’s black problems are the continuing result of a legacy of slavery, poverty and racial discrimination. The fact is that most of the social pathology seen in poor black neighborhoods is entirely new in black history."

“Today’s black illegitimacy rate of nearly 75 percent is also entirely new. In 1940, black illegitimacy stood at 14 percent."

“Much of today’s pathology seen among many blacks is an outgrowth of the welfare state that has made self-destructive behavior less costly for the individual. Having children without the benefit of marriage is less burdensome if the mother receives housing subsidies, welfare payments and food stamps. Plus, the social stigma associated with unwed motherhood has vanished. Female-headed households, whether black or white, are a ticket for dependency and all of its associated problems."


actually yes... at least for the first two the third is just political and religious rant... they imply there is something different between white and black people that causes this degradation of the second group's life quality, that for some reasons this is not evidence for a lack of equal opportunities but that the colour of the skin has effects on some other aspects of a persona, and this is by definition racism. Maybe you and him are not even aware of being racist but you are.
By the way weren't jim crow's laws in place after the 1940? So the second opinion contradicts the first one.

Don't you think that someone can point out how welfare programs, constructed the way they are forcing one parent households, have played a major role in the destruction of the black family (and many white families as well which she pointed out) and documenting it without being racist? To say that anything other than slavery is the problem is racist is racist in and of itself.

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/22/2015 1:32:04 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		They were hanging black kids in trees and shooting them and racial profiling long before ex-slaves could get welfare.

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/22/2015 1:53:27 PM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Don't you think that someone can point out how welfare programs, constructed the way they are forcing one parent households, have played a major role in the destruction of the black family (and many white families as well which she pointed out) and documenting it without being racist? To say that anything other than slavery is the problem is racist is racist in and of itself.


He can point it out, this doesn't make it right, it's still an unproven opinion. You can documentate anything you want but when your conclusion is black people are different to white people than there is a racist bias, when the hypothesys is white and black people have no other difference than the melatonine in the skin so there must be other reasons than you probably can have a discussion without being labelled as racist. Other than slavery I think jim crow's laws may have not helped black people in ferguson and it's not ancient history.

By the way I said the third was just a political and religious rant that was not racist but probably reinforces his bias. I'm sure adding social stigma to those children born out of wedlock will help them get more opportunities to rase themself out of poverty without any external help

< Message edited by eulero83 -- 5/22/2015 1:55:12 PM >

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RE: Would the Waco incident be different if the bikers ... - 5/22/2015 2:19:49 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Don't you think that someone can point out how welfare programs, constructed the way they are forcing one parent households, have played a major role in the destruction of the black family (and many white families as well which she pointed out) and documenting it without being racist? To say that anything other than slavery is the problem is racist is racist in and of itself.


He can point it out, this doesn't make it right, it's still an unproven opinion. You can documentate anything you want but when your conclusion is black people are different to white people than there is a racist bias, when the hypothesys is white and black people have no other difference than the melatonine in the skin so there must be other reasons than you probably can have a discussion without being labelled as racist. Other than slavery I think jim crow's laws may have not helped black people in ferguson and it's not ancient history.

By the way I said the third was just a political and religious rant that was not racist but probably reinforces his bias. I'm sure adding social stigma to those children born out of wedlock will help them get more opportunities to rase themself out of poverty without any external help

Your post shows that you either didn't read my post or didn't understand it.
She didn't say that things like Balt are because Blacks are inherently different from blacks. She said it was because of the destruction of the black family, in large part do to government programs which were intended to help them. You also either didn't read or get her post because she provided more that just her opinion she provided facts to back it up. You have been indoctrinated into the idea that all white people are racist and don't see the reality of the situation. It hasn't even occurred to you that that indoctrination is in itself racist.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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