How would you differentiate "domination" from "fetishes"?

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How would you differentiate "domination" from... - 5/27/2015 1:28:36 PM

crumpets

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Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
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In a recent general-forum thread which started as a noob question about pay web sites (subsequently locked, because it went the way of all findomme-related threads), the very interesting perspective below was stated as the last post before the lockup (emphasis below mine):

quote:

Extricate domination from fetishes, because while they are linked or lumped together, they are two separate things and you can have one without the other.

It isn't just the majority of male fetishes which aren't arousing to many women, it's their compulsively self-absorbed fetishy behavior which can be an even greater turn off.

Indulging a fetish is not an act of domination. Those who do cater to men's fetishes are providing a service, whether this amounts to financial gain or material benefit to them, and she could be a vanilla sex worker, a BDSM provider who is a switch or a sub and not even a Domme.

Acts of domination are what is sexually stimulating to a Dominant woman. If she is a sadistic Top, then it's the sadomasochism which excites her, but not all Dommes are sadistic Tops.

This is a very interesting and enlightening perspective that I'd like to know more about.
There is a LOT to potentially learn from this discussion.
Do you feel similarly?

Post #: 1

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 5/27/2015 1:31:01 PM

sweetieDA

Posts: 129
Joined: 4/3/2015
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Domination IS a fetish.

(in reply to crumpets)

Post #: 2

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 5/27/2015 2:06:39 PM

MAINEiacMISTRESS

Posts: 1180
Joined: 9/12/2012
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Domination and fetishism are not the same thing. Domination exists in the vanilla world as well (for instance when one spouse makes the rules and decisions in the household, and the other spouse takes on the obedient role). While Domination (and submission) can be PART of the fetish activity, Fetish by definition is the experiencing of some form of arousal for an OBJECT, such as clothing, rope, feet, nylons, diapers, fur, cages, rubber, leather...and the use of them.

Some people do fetish activities that never involve Domination/submission, and some people do D/s with no involvement of a fetish. EACH RELATIONSHIP AND/OR INTERACTION IS DIFFERENT, there are no set rules. Play and live as you like.

(in reply to sweetieDA)

Post #: 3

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 5/27/2015 2:31:46 PM

anaturalsubmiss

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Joined: 12/26/2012
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for men it's the same but for women it's different

(in reply to MAINEiacMISTRESS)

Post #: 4

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 5/27/2015 4:47:45 PM

aphrodite5

Posts: 71
Joined: 8/5/2007
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I see two distinct types of domination/submission.

One requires the distinction from fetishism -- it is a way of maintaining a relationship. Said relationship may or may not include sex. When it does, domination/submission may or may not be part of said sex. The primary purpose of this type is to make day-to-day life run more smoothly. One person makes decisions/has authority, the other performs in a supporting/obedient role.

The other type absolutely falls in with fetishism. A person can have a fetish for domination or submission. It makes them hot, gets the motor running, maybe they even can't have satisfying sex without it. Please note, I am speaking of a fetish for control. This may or may not include other fetishes, such as sadomasochism, rubber, or bondage.

This being the case, I don't think "extricating domination from fetishes" is entirely correct. I think it is a subject that requires more introspection and discussion than most people give it. Maybe when you say "domination," you mean "that thing that gets my juices flowing," but when I say it I mean "that thing that means you'll defer to me for decision making." We both know we aren't talking about whips and chains, but we won't be on the same page until we clarify.

This is why one of my first questions to a potential partner is "What does that mean to you?"

(in reply to anaturalsubmiss)

Post #: 5

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 5/28/2015 12:21:10 AM

sweetieDA

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Joined: 4/3/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MAINEiacMISTRESS
Domination and fetishism are not the same thing. Domination exists in the vanilla world as well (for instance when one spouse makes the rules and decisions in the household, and the other spouse takes on the obedient role). While Domination (and submission) can be PART of the fetish activity, Fetish by definition is the experiencing of some form of arousal for an OBJECT, such as clothing, rope, feet, nylons, diapers, fur, cages, rubber, leather...and the use of them.

Most kinksters use the word 'fetish' to describe not just objects but activities - for example, face sitting, bondage, etc. So if D/s is done for sexual gratification then it is a fetish (and indeed, it is listed as a paraphilia - a desire for abnormal sexual gratification) and in fact many Doms and subs gain great sexual pleasure from acts of control and submission. Where it is not done for sexual gratification (for example, a boss dominating his subordinates) then we would not refer to such person as a Dominant, as it is outside of the remit of BDSM.

Having said this, I actually do think that some so-called Dommes are not Dommes in the kinky sense, they simply use the D/s paradigm for the benefits of free labour and no-one making demands on them. They gain gratification from it but not sexual gratification, which is why they are so quick to distance themselves from D/s as a 'fetish'. However they are exploiting and utilising the sexual fetishes of others such as service and submission.

If Domination exists in the vanilla world and if these Dommes prefer non-sexual D/s why do they join the BDSM community at all? Why associate with kinksters and fetishists and other people who are doing it for sexual gratification? Why not simply find 'vanilla' submissives to dominate in a non-sexual manner? The simple answer is that, in the vanilla world, for those who are not aroused by submission, it would be very difficult to find men and women who were willing to submit without any sort of payment but in the BDSM community there are many desperate submissives (often men) who can be manipulated into providing acts of service without any reciprocation. This does not mean that such acts are not sexual (they are for the submissive, who will be aroused during the acts and often go home and masturbate) it simply means that one group of people are exploiting the sexuality of another group of people and then wrapping it up as non-fetishistic to justify their lack of a sexual response.

Every time I see a Domme hammering on about service or D/s as not being a fetish, I know that there's a woman who just wants her decking laid for free. If it's not a fetish, they shouldn't be in BDSM at all, imo.

(in reply to MAINEiacMISTRESS)

Post #: 6

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 5/28/2015 12:54:21 AM

dreamlady

Posts: 737
Joined: 9/13/2007
From: Western MD
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Doncha just love it when post content gets lifted from another thread and divorced from the context from which it was originally intended?

OP, "experiences with dommes who require you to join a BDSM site" http://www.collarchat.com/m_4809058/mpage_1/tm.htm is no longer postable on the General BDSM Discussion board, but has not been Access Denied.

Ergo,

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
---

quote:

ORIGINAL: xrampage101

Let's be honest on here; female domination over a male is really a male fantasy. This also includes male fetishes as well. Most women aren't sexually stimulated by all this. Instead, they are more motivated by the financial gain and gifts they receive in return.

Here, I will have to disagree on so many levels.

Extricate domination from fetishes, because while they are linked or lumped together, they are two separate things and you can have one without the other.
It isn't just the majority of male fetishes which aren't arousing to many women, it's their compulsively self-absorbed fetishy behavior which can be an even greater turn off.

Indulging a fetish is not an act of domination. Those who do cater to men's fetishes are providing a service, whether this amounts to financial gain or material benefit to them, and she could be a vanilla sex worker, a BDSM provider who is a switch or a sub and not even a Domme.

Acts of domination are what is sexually stimulating to a Dominant woman. If she is a sadistic Top, then it's the sadomasochism which excites her, but not all Dommes are sadistic Tops.

When you paint "most women" with such a wide brush and with myopic tunnel vision, you should be better informed about the subjects of which you speak.

In the above reply, 'extricate' means to take apart as in untangle, or to set aside as independent from, Domination/submission as a comprehensive whole, not simply sexual D/s.

DreamLady

(in reply to crumpets)

Post #: 7

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 5/28/2015 7:42:22 AM

NookieNotes

Posts: 1720
Joined: 11/10/2013
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I am a dominant woman. This is a part of my daily life, my relationships, my actions.

I also enjoy certain fetishes.

I can dominate without those fetishes. I can dominate with them. I can dominate when indulging my Pet in something he really desires.

Hell, I dominate most times. That's who I am.

But, fetishes are not a part of it (they are icing on the cake), and I only SOMETIMES get a sexual thrill from the domination itself. Sometimes it is a professional thing. Sometimes it's a mentoring thing. Sometimes it's a sexual thing.

I believe that anyone who thinks that domination is so simple a concept as to be only one thing to all people has no experience with it. I feel the same way about submission.

For those who say domination IS a fetish, that's cool... But it is not ALL fetishes, and other fetishes (especially when demanded) may still be a turn-off.

_____________________________

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(in reply to dreamlady)

Post #: 8

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 5/28/2015 8:40:48 AM

ResidentSadist

Posts: 12580
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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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I don't know what more there is to extrapolate" "You can have one without the other" they are as easily free from each other as they are combined.

From I like to be spanked because it's sexy to I like to be spanked because I am being dominated. Seems that covers the gamut.

_____________________________

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I give good thread.

(in reply to crumpets)

Post #: 9

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 5/29/2015 3:10:57 PM

Nitewing0001

Posts: 12
Joined: 11/25/2014
Status: offline

Sexual fetishism is a sexual focus on a inanimate object or nongenital body part. Domination does not require fetishism and vice versa. People often combine the 2 simply because it is enjoyable. Much like getting an ice cream with sprinkles on top. One does not require the other but when you do, it taste so good :)

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

Post #: 10

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 5/29/2015 6:23:26 PM

LookieNoNookie

Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

In a recent general-forum thread which started as a noob question about pay web sites (subsequently locked, because it went the way of all findomme-related threads), the very interesting perspective below was stated as the last post before the lockup (emphasis below mine):

quote:

Extricate domination from fetishes, because while they are linked or lumped together, they are two separate things and you can have one without the other.

It isn't just the majority of male fetishes which aren't arousing to many women, it's their compulsively self-absorbed fetishy behavior which can be an even greater turn off.

Indulging a fetish is not an act of domination. Those who do cater to men's fetishes are providing a service, whether this amounts to financial gain or material benefit to them, and she could be a vanilla sex worker, a BDSM provider who is a switch or a sub and not even a Domme.

Acts of domination are what is sexually stimulating to a Dominant woman. If she is a sadistic Top, then it's the sadomasochism which excites her, but not all Dommes are sadistic Tops.

This is a very interesting and enlightening perspective that I'd like to know more about.
There is a LOT to potentially learn from this discussion.
Do you feel similarly?

Chics have the game.

Next?

(in reply to crumpets)

Post #: 11

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 5/29/2015 11:36:01 PM

dreamlady

Posts: 737
Joined: 9/13/2007
From: Western MD
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie

Chics have the game.

Next?

Spoken like a truly enlightened soul.

DreamLady

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 12

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 5/30/2015 5:43:49 AM

crumpets

Posts: 1614
Joined: 11/5/2014
From: South Bay (SF & Silicon Valley)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie
Chics have the game.

I wholeheartedly agree with your eloquent assessment!

(in reply to LookieNoNookie)

Post #: 13

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 6/20/2015 2:31:19 PM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline

To me, Domination means being in control of the other person. Sometimes that involves things that are kinky or sexual, but often it's just things like doing chores, being accountable to a schedule, seeking and following advice about non-kinky aspects of their life. If I react submissively toward someone, I want to do everything I can to make their life easier, from scrubbing the tub, to sitting through the automated prompts for returning an item or doing technical support. When I had a submissive, I controlled things like his diet/exercise, made a schedule he complied with, he did the housework, etc.

I don't have any objection to someone just bottoming rather than submitting to me. I don't even mind if they order me to top them just the way they want to be topped, in some circumstances. Doing that, then claiming to be "submitting," feels dishonest to me. I had some run-ins with a few fellows who wanted "forced feminization" when I was looking for a partner here in the past. They had super-detailed scripts they wanted me to follow to the letter, for humiliation (but only the way they wanted to be humiliated), wearing women's clothing, but only if it was what they wanted to wear, and so forth.

In bemused reaction, I did a "forced feminization" scene with my female playpartner at a public playparty. I had her wear jeans, t-shirt, sneakers, and a baseball cap. I wrestled her out of her clothes, while she giggled and struggled, and into an evening gown, thigh-high stockings, opera-length gloves, and heels. :D

(in reply to crumpets)

Post #: 14

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 6/22/2015 3:50:43 PM

seekingreality

Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

In a recent general-forum thread which started as a noob question about pay web sites (subsequently locked, because it went the way of all findomme-related threads), the very interesting perspective below was stated as the last post before the lockup (emphasis below mine):

quote:

Extricate domination from fetishes, because while they are linked or lumped together, they are two separate things and you can have one without the other.

It isn't just the majority of male fetishes which aren't arousing to many women, it's their compulsively self-absorbed fetishy behavior which can be an even greater turn off.

Indulging a fetish is not an act of domination. Those who do cater to men's fetishes are providing a service, whether this amounts to financial gain or material benefit to them, and she could be a vanilla sex worker, a BDSM provider who is a switch or a sub and not even a Domme.

Acts of domination are what is sexually stimulating to a Dominant woman. If she is a sadistic Top, then it's the sadomasochism which excites her, but not all Dommes are sadistic Tops.

This is a very interesting and enlightening perspective that I'd like to know more about.
There is a LOT to potentially learn from this discussion.
Do you feel similarly?

As a submissive, I think the question is whether you focus on what pleases the domme or what pleases you. Now obviously that isn't going to be black-and-white, because most submissives want to please but also be pleased. If you know yourself and your partner, then you don't really have to worry about classifying activities.

(in reply to crumpets)

Post #: 15

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 6/22/2015 6:29:57 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
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From: Apple County NY
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Domination here just means he can make any decision he wants to. He rarely tells me what to make for dinner but when he feels like it, that's what we have. Which meant a frozen lasagna and a salad last week when he saw one while we were in the grocery store.

There's nothing sexually exciting in being told to make that. Nor for him in telling me.

Sexual excitement comes from him playing with me, tying me up, etc.

_____________________________

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(in reply to seekingreality)

Post #: 16

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 6/22/2015 8:04:35 PM

TieMeInKnottss

Posts: 1944
Joined: 9/6/2012
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"Fetish" is one of those words that has been so overused and incorrectly applied that its true meaning is often missed...These words have become so commonplace that you almost tune them out. "I have a shoe fetish"....used by women everywhere who just really like shoes.. Most of us now hear that and equate it to "oh...she owns a lot of shoes" . Very few people hear that and think, as the word "fetish" truly is meant to denote "worship", "irrational commitment" or "sexually gratified"... We have become a society that has to always go over the top in our expression so we MISS the true meaning/depth of the statement when used correctly.. (Don't get me started on all the people who are "addicted")

Ok...so my rant is over and I am back on track! Basically, a "fetish" is (according to the dictionary) anything that you are "excessively or irrationally committed to" or "a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an ABNORMAL degree..." I LIKE to be dominated, I LOVE rough sex and I get EXCITED by being ordered around (which is why it is PROBABLY a damn good thing I never went into the military...First time I would have had some guy yell "You address me as SIR!!"..I would have been a horny mess!)... I can live life without these things (not a HAPPY life but...)

ANYTHING can be a "fetish", just easier to find "like-minded people" when your fetish is being dominated or tickled or spanking then it is to find people who are Emetophilias (sexually attracted to vomit)

(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 17

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 6/22/2015 11:57:32 PM

DaddySatyr

Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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I think there may be a bit of overlap, in this area.

For me, it is almost impossible to separate D/s (which is really what I practice) from a fetish because, for me, D/s is a fetish, based upon definition number three from here:

quote:

ORIGINAL: American Heritage Dictionary

3. Something, such as a material object or nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.

Since I am not even attracted to any lady that doesn't show me submission, at least the "submission" part of D/s is a necessity for me to achieve sexual gratification.

Even if I extend it to something "outside" of D/s, I am also polyamorous and as the famous Gloria Steinem quote goes; when she was asked why she'd never married: "I can't mate in captivity." applies to me, also and since it is a requirement in my even becoming involved in a relationship, we can extrapolate that it is a necessity for me to achieve the aforementioned gratification.

All of that said, there are plenty of people that can indulge in kinky sex/BDSM without any "contamination" by D/s, but for many of us, there's no other way.

Michael

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(in reply to TieMeInKnottss)

Post #: 18

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 6/27/2015 6:03:38 AM

Kana

Posts: 6676
Joined: 10/24/2006
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quote:

FETISH:
a course of action to which one has an excessive and irrational commitment.
"he had a fetish for writing more opinions each year than any other justice"
a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc.
"Victorian men developed fetishes focusing on feet, shoes, and boots"

Here's a thought. Just an alternative perspective. Fetishes drives the person whereas in domination the person drives the act.

Personally I see them as separate but frequently intertwined. People have leather fetish so they bring that into their D/S..or control...or masochism...or anal or whatthefuckever. Or the domination is a vehicle in which to live the fetish.
But they don't have to be tied at the hip.
I can dominate someone with zero fetishism involved (Why not? I do it all the time in real day to day life when I bend people to my will) and I can exercise fetishism without domination...but what fun would that be now, eh?

_____________________________

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(in reply to DaddySatyr)

Post #: 19

RE: How would you differentiate "domination" ... - 6/28/2015 2:17:52 PM

MissCK

Posts: 4
Joined: 6/28/2015
From: Milton Keynes, Bucks, Uk
Status: offline

Mmmm you can very easily have fetish without any domination but I would say that domination broken down into its many parts are different forms of fetish so whilst you can have fetish without domination I do not think you can have domination without fetish. Yes I can dominate someone without anything that I personally class as fetish being involved but if the person I am dominating needs a particular action, dress code, verbal tone etc to make the session satisfying for them then that is their fetish, the act of being dominated can in itself be someones fetish. I dont think you can fully separate the two however fetish is so diverse and so individual sometimes that they are impossible to quantify, you couldnt list them all if you tried, they are highly personal and do not more often than not involve any form of dominace

< Message edited by MissCK -- 6/28/2015 2:22:38 PM >

(in reply to Kana)

Post #: 20

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