Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (Full Version)

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Svale -> Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 8:32:18 AM)




Portugal decriminalised drugs 14 years ago – and now hardly anyone dies from overdosing

Portugal decriminalised the use of all drugs in 2001. Weed, cocaine, heroin, you name it — Portugal decided to treat possession and use of small quantities of these drugs as a public health issue, not a criminal one. The drugs were still illegal, of course. But now getting caught with them meant a small fine and maybe a referral to a treatment program — not jail time and a criminal record.

Among Portuguese adults, there are 3 drug overdose deaths for every 1,000,000 citizens. Comparable numbers in other countries range from 10.2 per million in the Netherlands to 44.6 per million in the UK, all the way up to 126.8 per million in Estonia. The EU average is 17.3 per million.


Perhaps more significantly, the report notes that the use of "legal highs" – like so-called "synthetic" marijuana, "bath salts" and the like – is lower in Portugal than in any of the other countries for which reliable data exists.

"it's very difficult to identify a causal link between decriminalisation by itself and the positive tendencies we have seen."

Still, it's very clear that decriminalisation hasn't had the severe consequences that its opponents predicted. As the Transform Drug Policy Institute says in its analysis of Portugal's drug laws, "The reality is that Portugal’s drug situation has improved significantly in several key areas. Most notably, HIV infections and drug-related deaths have decreased, while the dramatic rise in use feared by some has failed to materialise."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/portugal-decriminalised-drugs-14-years-ago--and-now-hardly-anyone-dies-from-overdosing-10301780.html



An example to follow??? Certainly it is interesting, and the whole problem of criminals cartels in parts of the world might vanish or get less with such a change.

What do you think?







kdsub -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 8:46:28 AM)

I believe any benefit stated is not the result of decriminalizing drugs but in the support of addicts in treatment and reduction of disease from legally available drug paraphernalia. I am certainly for this same support here.

As for your statistics HERE is another take on them.

Butch



HunterCA -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 10:28:50 AM)

I wonder what the affect on welfare is? The cost to society to support and rehabilitate addicts. I wonder if it's cheaper or more expensive than prosecuting them.



Aylee -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 11:19:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I wonder what the affect on welfare is? The cost to society to support and rehabilitate addicts. I wonder if it's cheaper or more expensive than prosecuting them.


My gut feeling says that it is cheaper than prosecuting them.



hot4bondage -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 11:19:46 AM)

Your link goes to an article written by William J. Bennett, former drug czar. His recent book, Going to Pot, is debunked here:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2015/02/05/bill-bennetts-confused-and-confusing-defense-of-pot-prohibition/



HunterCA -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 11:28:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I wonder what the affect on welfare is? The cost to society to support and rehabilitate addicts. I wonder if it's cheaper or more expensive than prosecuting them.


My gut feeling says that it is cheaper than prosecuting them.


There are, in my knowledge, three ways for a society to deal with drugs. The way we do now; the way Chairman Mao did, no rights, police as judge jury and executioner, kicking down doors with no restraint, and legalizing it. I'd really rather do the smart thing, if I knew what that was.



Aylee -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 11:54:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

I wonder what the affect on welfare is? The cost to society to support and rehabilitate addicts. I wonder if it's cheaper or more expensive than prosecuting them.


My gut feeling says that it is cheaper than prosecuting them.


There are, in my knowledge, three ways for a society to deal with drugs. The way we do now; the way Chairman Mao did, no rights, police as judge jury and executioner, kicking down doors with no restraint, and legalizing it. I'd really rather do the smart thing, if I knew what that was.


I suppose one must first decide what the desired outcome is.



kdsub -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 1:33:44 PM)

Not debunked... just a difference of opinion... As I've stated it is not the decriminalization of drugs that has made a difference but the treatment, at least in my opinion. Unless one is exclusive of the other it is all just opinion. I would love to see penalties of even minor suppliers and distributors made more severe and completely remove all penalties from addicts and mandate their free treatment. I would bet it would work even better than the European models....AND... be a hell of a lot cheaper then incarceration...and rather than just maintain relative levels of use drastically reduce it.

But... i will agree anything is better than what we are doing now.

Butch



Kirata -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 1:42:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I would love to see penalties of even minor suppliers and distributors made more severe and completely remove all penalties from addicts and mandate their free treatment.

Let me see if I'm getting this right. You don't want to punish users, but you do basically want to outlaw drugs?

K.






bounty44 -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 1:58:11 PM)

i didn't go to the article and perhaps the answer to my question is there---does it say what the death rate in Portugal was before the de-criminalization?



kdsub -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 5:41:42 PM)

Kirata I want to come down hard on suppliers but at the same time treat those addicted. Users would be fined heavily for drug use but fines would be based on the ability to pay... but all would get mandated free treatment. Few, except for the mentally ill and suicidal, want to be addicted but many do not have the support or resources to break their addiction...and they would if they could.

The casual user would be deterred by the heavy fines and the addicted would get the help they need and the supplier can go to hell.


Butch



JVoV -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 9:25:53 PM)

Legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it.

End the tax-free underground economy it creates. End the senseless prison sentences & violent crimes surrounding it.



Sanity -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 9:45:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it.

End the tax-free underground economy it creates. End the senseless prison sentences & violent crimes surrounding it.


Problem is taxes grow and grow and grow "for the good of society" or to save the addict from himself etc to the point that it becomes lucrative to dodge the taxes

Then youre back at square one

quote:

The New York City medical examiner's office Friday confirmed what demonstrators had been saying for weeks: A police officer's choke hold on a man being arrested for selling loose cigarettes killed him.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 10:23:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it.
End the tax-free underground economy it creates. End the senseless prison sentences & violent crimes surrounding it.


I agree. I would also support the legalizing of ALL currently illegal drugs.



JVoV -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 10:32:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it.

End the tax-free underground economy it creates. End the senseless prison sentences & violent crimes surrounding it.


Problem is taxes grow and grow and grow "for the good of society" or to save the addict from himself etc to the point that it becomes lucrative to dodge the taxes

Then youre back at square one

quote:

The New York City medical examiner's office Friday confirmed what demonstrators had been saying for weeks: A police officer's choke hold on a man being arrested for selling loose cigarettes killed him.



Right. NYC. And soon you can replace "loose cigarettes" with "cans of soda". But other than NYC and California, the country would be fine.



JVoV -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 10:34:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
Legalize it. Regulate it. Tax it.
End the tax-free underground economy it creates. End the senseless prison sentences & violent crimes surrounding it.


I agree. I would also support the legalizing of ALL currently illegal drugs.


I dunno that I'd go quite that far.

But I really don't like being hassled twice a year when I actually need the meth version of Sudafed.



tj444 -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 10:37:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Svale
An example to follow??? Certainly it is interesting, and the whole problem of criminals cartels in parts of the world might vanish or get less with such a change.

What do you think?

what i think is that if the US ever wanted to do the same thing (which is very highly doubtful), the US govt would screw it up just as they have screwed up their new national health care system.. it woul d cost 2 to 4 times as much as it should as the lobbyists, drug corps, rehab industry would see to that cuz they want to make as much money as possible.. While I think the concept has merit in a country that isnt as profit driven as the US is, in the US it would just be another way to screw people & profit from their misery..

This article gives an example of how things get screwed up here-
Relapse or be homeless
Mr. Baumblit got kickbacks on the Medicaid fees paid to the outpatient treatment programs that he forced all his tenants to attend, residents and former employees said. So he gave Mr. Bush a choice: If he wanted to stay, he would have to relapse and enroll in another program. Otherwise, his bed would be given away.

In the past two and a half years, Mr. Bush has gone through four programs, just to hold onto his upper bunk bed.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/nyregion/three-quarter-housing-a-choice-for-recovering-addicts-or-homelessness.html?_r=0



tj444 -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 10:47:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
But I really don't like being hassled twice a year when I actually need the meth version of Sudafed.

aint that the truth.. in the spring i never know how much i will need, it might be hardly any, or it might be a bad pollen year for me and i might need more than the govt allows every month.. so over winter, i go in every month and get my allowable meds and stock pile them... This spring wasnt too bad so now i have enough for next spring still left over.. In Canada its on the shelves and you dont have to go thru all the BS that allergy sufferers have to go thru here..



DesideriScuri -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/6/2015 11:36:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV
But I really don't like being hassled twice a year when I actually need the meth version of Sudafed.

aint that the truth.. in the spring i never know how much i will need, it might be hardly any, or it might be a bad pollen year for me and i might need more than the govt allows every month.. so over winter, i go in every month and get my allowable meds and stock pile them... This spring wasnt too bad so now i have enough for next spring still left over.. In Canada its on the shelves and you dont have to go thru all the BS that allergy sufferers have to go thru here..


Is the meth problem as large in Canada as it is in the US?

I got "carded" at a grocery store Friday when I bought some beer. The cashier said, "If you don't look over 40, I have to card you." It didn't give me an ego boost or anything, but it was a prelude to the guy next to me to tell us that he was carded the week before at Tractor Supply Company when he bought a can of Raid. None of us had any clue why that would require carding, but, there it was.

I'm lucky. I tend to not have issues that require decongestants as long as I'm vigilant with my loratidine (generic for Claritin; 1x/day antihistamine). Any time I do, I can made it through with nasal sprays and nasal irrigation.



JVoV -> RE: Decrminalizing drugs works it seems (6/7/2015 12:40:54 AM)

Wal-Mart was insisting on ID for canned air (to blow out electronics) or canned whipped cream last I knew.

Some dumbass in (pick a state) finds out you can get high on it, and we're all screwed.



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