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a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 5:21:34 AM   
slavejlb


Posts: 446
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		Girl has by her Master giving a question to ponder,
what is the differance between being a Master and being someone who owns another mind, body, heart.
take care and be safe
slave jlb
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 5:27:14 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejlb
what is the differance between being a Master and being someone who owns another mind, body, heart.


They should be the same, however many only wear the lable, rather than taking up the responcibility of ownership or even putting in the 'work' needed to own more than just the body.


_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to slavejlb)
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RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 6:03:15 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		In the words of the Bard lass, "A rose by another name is still a rose". The nomenclature used may be dictated by local custom or by a lifestyle protocol (e.g. Gor) or even by a personal choice. 

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to RavenMuse)
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RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 6:05:43 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		That is the DEFINITION of "master."

quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejlb

what is the differance between being a Master and being someone who owns another mind, body, heart.

(in reply to slavejlb)
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RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 7:37:02 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		However he does it is right how everyone else does it is stupid and fucked up.  Just a guess but I bet that is how he sees it.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 7:49:43 AM   
Midearthtrainer


Posts: 67
Joined: 10/10/2004
Status: offline 		They should be the same, however many only wear the lable, rather than taking up the responcibility of ownership or even putting in the 'work' needed to own more than just the body.

This is true.  Ownership is work.  It has to be a constant work-in-progress

Without owning/ being someone who owns another mind, body, heart.(I use body, mind and soul); How can someone claim to have mastery over that individual? It is not the physical bondage that will keep a slave. Rather, it is the dedication of body, mind and soul/heart that will allow the realtionship to endure/last.

Where the mind leads, the body follows.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)
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RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 7:59:54 AM   
LaMalinche


Posts: 2077
Joined: 10/20/2005
Status: offline 		*rolls eyes*

I am just wondering why he was so insecure that he could not ask himself?  Or look it up at Dictionary.com? 

And I totally agree with CrappyDom.



_____________________________

Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...

(in reply to CrappyDom)
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RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 8:10:55 AM   
LaMalinche


Posts: 2077
Joined: 10/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Midearthtrainer

They should be the same, however many only wear the lable, rather than taking up the responcibility of ownership or even putting in the 'work' needed to own more than just the body.

This is true.  Ownership is work.  It has to be a constant work-in-progress

Without owning/ being someone who owns another mind, body, heart.(I use body, mind and soul); How can someone claim to have mastery over that individual? It is not the physical bondage that will keep a slave. Rather, it is the dedication of body, mind and soul/heart that will allow the realtionship to endure/last.

Where the mind leads, the body follows.


Ummm. . . because 'master' of something/one only implies ownership of the concrete. . . the mind and soul are in the abstract.  Umm. . . think physical versus metaphysical. . . or material versus spiritual. 

Mastery requires only control of the body. . . not of the mind and soul/heart.  While those are nice romantic ideas, they just are not requirements to fulfill the definition of 'master' - in this sense of ownership.  As in the way the word is being used and the implied definition. 

Edited to add. . .

Yes it is physical bondage that will keep a slave. . . well, combined with law. . . read up on slavery in history. . . it was always physical bondage plus the law written by the victors.  The romantic idealism forced upon us by popular culture is soooooo permeating as to be nausiating.







< Message edited by LaMalinche -- 7/16/2006 8:14:45 AM >

_____________________________

Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...

(in reply to Midearthtrainer)
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RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 8:14:07 AM   
LadyHugs


Posts: 2299
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Dear slavejlb, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
Master is very flexible in it's use and or description, in my mind's eye.
 
However, the real "Mastery" is beyond ownership to where the hold is more than a command of obedience, discipline and or protocol.  But, it is the desire to stay, desire to suffer, such as pain in boundaries of S&M, bondage or whatever has been negotiated and agreed upon. To serve because you wish to and that creates your own 'joy' and 'pleasure'/'satisfaction' as well as you want to be there--not 'have to be there.'
 
In using animals as an example of difference between ownership and Mastery; Anybody can own an animal.  Not everybody can master them.  For example the hunting breeds, to which chase the prey as that is their natural instincts for centuries.  However, a Master can have these dogs to the point of their training, to recall to his voice, his horn, his whip at any given moment in the heat of the chase.  Listening to the Master and not their bred instincts to chase the prey.  Certainly the hounds may be extremely driven, hungry and ready to kill the prey but, by their "Master's" wishes they obey him/her and not their nature.  Anybody can own a physical thing--Mastery in my mind's eye is beyond mere possession of a physical thing, be it hound or human.  It is the ability to have a creature, hound or human to gladly be there, ready to serve as well as to be loved, admired and praised.
 
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs

(in reply to slavejlb)
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RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 8:20:06 AM   
Caretakr


Posts: 1221
Joined: 6/24/2006
Status: offline 		 
Shrugs, Mastery, as an abstract, only means one has the skills to control something in an effective manner. It's more of a dynamic than an honorific. You can't master anything if you don't practice it.

(in reply to LadyHugs)
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RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 8:44:59 AM   
LaMalinche


Posts: 2077
Joined: 10/20/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr


Shrugs, Mastery, as an abstract, only means one has the skills to control something in an effective manner. It's more of a dynamic than an honorific. You can't master anything if you don't practice it.


Here are the most common definitions for Master:

  1. One that has control over another or others.


  2. The owner or keeper of an animal: The dog ran toward its master.
    The owner of a slave.

  • One who has control over or ownership of something: the master of a large tea plantation.
  • The captain of a merchant ship. Also called master mariner.
  • An employer.
  • The man who serves as the head of a household.
  • One who defeats another; a victor.


  • One whose teachings or doctrines are accepted by followers.
    Master Christianity. Jesus.
  • A male teacher, schoolmaster, or tutor.
  • One who holds a master's degree.


  • An artist or performer of great and exemplary skill.
    An old master.
  • A worker qualified to teach apprentices and carry on the craft independently.
  • An expert: a master of three languages.
  • Abbr. M.

    Used formerly as a title for a man holding a naval office ranking next below a lieutenant on a warship.
    Used as a title for a man who serves as the head or presiding officer of certain societies, clubs, orders, or institutions.
    Chiefly British. Used as a title for any of various male law court officers.
    Master Used as a title for any of various male officers having specified duties concerning the management of the British royal household.
    Master Used as a courtesy title before the given or full name of a boy not considered old enough to be addressed as Mister.
    Archaic. Used as a form of address for a man; mister.
  • Master A man who owns a pack of hounds or is the chief officer of a hunt.
  • An original, such as an original document or audio recording, from which copies can be made.

    adj.
    1. Of, relating to, or characteristic of a master.
    2. Principal or predominant: a master plot.
    3. Controlling all other parts of a mechanism: a master switch.
    4. Highly skilled or proficient: a master thief.
    5. Being an original from which copies are made.





    _____________________________

    Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...

    (in reply to Caretakr)
    • Profile   Post #: 11
    RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 10:43:13 AM   
    Estring


    Posts: 3314
    Joined: 1/1/2004
    Status: offline     		Many just decide they are a Master. In reality, I don't think it means anything.

    _____________________________

    Boycott Whales!

    (in reply to slavejlb)
    Profile   Post #: 12
    RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 1:58:25 PM   
    Tristero


    Posts: 3
    Joined: 3/29/2005
    Status: offline     		Your master has given you an abstract, subjective, and nearly meaningless question to ponder. Of course, that's not necessarily a bad thing. :-)

    Concepts like "ownership" and "mind, body, and heart" are pretty damn subjective. You're not going to find any broad agreement among people on their meaning, in the D/s community or outside. You can look up definitions in the dictionary, and that might be a start, but you're not going to find any real answers in a dictionary, either.

    If he is a reasonable and wise person, he's giving you the chore of thinking through what concepts like "mastery" and "ownership" and "mind, body, and heart" mean to you -- and mean to him. A lot of good can come out of pondering those concepts and using them as the basis for a discussion between you and your Dom. He almost certainly has his own answer in mind -- perhaps one that he has communicated to you in the past, and he's testing to see if you have been paying attention.

    Bottom line: there's no perfect answer. You might get the most benefit from approaching the question as the beginning of an exploration.



    (in reply to slavejlb)
    Profile   Post #: 13
    RE: a question for the Master here - 7/16/2006 2:13:01 PM   
    IronBear


    Posts: 9008
    Joined: 6/19/2005
    From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
    Status: offline     		I like the question though. I own a girl it will be ownership of her mind body and soul in a literal sence.. 

    _____________________________

    Iron Bear

    Master of Bruin Cottage

    http://www.bruincottage.org

    Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

    D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

    (in reply to Tristero)
    Profile   Post #: 14
    RE: a question for the Master here - 7/17/2006 3:32:36 AM   
    Focus50


    Posts: 3962
    Joined: 12/28/2004
    From: Newcastle, Australia
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: slavejlb

    Girl has by her Master giving a question to ponder,
    what is the differance between being a Master and being someone who owns another mind, body, heart.

    The latter does not necessarily have a formal dynamic of ownership.  IE, can be just 2 vanillas in love where the "ownership" is more a mutual commitment and enslavement of the heart.
     
    And the former does not necessarily require love to be a defining component of that particular M/s relationship - it becomes more about the service.  This seems to be more popular with "masters" who enjoy the fruits of service without apparently any responsibility for the slave's well-being.  Therefore, "master" is empowered to play at will with anyone he likes (and will have him).
     
    With *my* M/s relationships, I agree with RavenMuse, they should be (and need to be) the same - or I'm not interested.
     
    Focus.

    (in reply to slavejlb)
    Profile   Post #: 15
    RE: a question for the Master here - 7/18/2006 2:46:45 PM   
    slavejlb


    Posts: 446
    Joined: 5/19/2006
    Status: offline     		Greeting and thank you all who responded to my question, i recive many good respondace, and more to ponder.
    take care and be safe
    and by the Iron bear it suck you live in Austraila. i have come to enjoy many of your respondace weather it be my question or another
    love slave jlb

    (in reply to Focus50)
    Profile   Post #: 16
    RE: a question for the Master here - 7/19/2006 1:03:05 AM   
    FrankAr


    Posts: 817
    Joined: 10/1/2005
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: slavejlb

    Girl has by her Master giving a question to ponder,
    what is the differance between being a Master and being someone who owns another mind, body, heart.
    take care and be safe
    slave jlb


    Greetings jib,

    I see this as a lazy slave that wants to know something that her Master has given her as a topic to discuss.  The topic in question, I have no question of.  Like IronBear has said, it is a good question.  I think the question is to see what a slave has in her mind what a Master would be of. 

    Now this is where I am a little lost.  In my eyes, I would ask the slave this question, and see what her response would be after 2 days.  If she came upon the net and then put it out there as a topic, anything that she would say to me, I would take no heed to, for it is the opinions that she has read and not HER thoughts.  It might be in her words, but not her thoughts, just a wide gasp of other thoughts and collect them into one.

    However if you came up for the topic after you had written your reply to your Master, and you wanted other opinions to expand your knowledge, then so be it.  That would have been good. 

    This topic is just like the ones of subs and slaves that post that their Master has asked to them find something about a culture...and poeple reply to them about the websites and all.  It just has that little twitch under the skin, in my eyes.

    Be well and take care.

    Master Frank Ar.

    (in reply to slavejlb)
    Profile   Post #: 17
    RE: a question for the Master here - 7/19/2006 9:24:32 AM   
    slavejlb


    Posts: 446
    Joined: 5/19/2006
    Status: offline     		Greetings Sir
    i was not being lazy, and i was seeking other ideas because at the time i did not have a good answer, nor was i secure enough in the answer i had. So i was seeking what others said, one either to fine other ideas and how others see themselfs, and or to confirm what i was thinking, also with the assitance of others here i was able to form a more viable and intelligent answer.
    hope this has help some in the reason i posted my question
    take care and be safe
    slave jlb

    (in reply to FrankAr)
    Profile   Post #: 18
    RE: a question for the Master here - 7/20/2006 1:53:52 PM   
    Hardspanker44


    Posts: 6
    Joined: 6/18/2006
    Status: offline     		A Master is first a master of themselves.  They are able to understand themselves within various contexts...and because of their own training and internal discipline can teach or initiate others into this specialized knowledge.

    No true Master wants to own another.  Afterall, you can come to me voluntarily..I will accept you.  But my code of discipline and Mastership also means I will take care, protect, and help you in any way possible in return.  If the time comes for you to go
    then do so in your heart and mind, take those jewels with you and explore the world and realize the dreams of your heart.

    We cannot truely own another....we can only own ourselves.

    (in reply to slavejlb)
    Profile   Post #: 19
    RE: a question for the Master here - 7/20/2006 2:19:41 PM   
    Cloudz


    Posts: 836
    Joined: 9/13/2005
    Status: offline
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: slavejlb

    Greetings Sir
    i was not being lazy, and i was seeking other ideas because at the time i did not have a good answer, nor was i secure enough in the answer i had. So i was seeking what others said, one either to fine other ideas and how others see themselfs, and or to confirm what i was thinking, also with the assitance of others here i was able to form a more viable and intelligent answer.
    hope this has help some in the reason i posted my question
    take care and be safe
    slave jlb


    I have to agree with FrankAR on this. If I posed such a topic to my submissive, I would expect him to research the topic (including READING the threads here) and come up with his own answer. I would not be pleased to find him asking others for their opinion
    ...as it would be his I sought. 



    _____________________________

    Enjoy the Journey,
    ~Cloudz

    "Life isn't about how to survive the storm, but how to dance in the rain."


    (in reply to slavejlb)
    Profile   Post #: 20
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