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RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/10/2015 8:36:55 PM   
kdsub


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I am talking aid in education ...there are many academically qualified men and women that cannot afford a college education. I believe we should help them to help themselves. It will change lives and families and produce tax income... It should more than pay for itself.

I also see nothing wrong with organisations, city, state, and federal governments requiring contractors to hire and train a certain number of economically challenged entry level workers in their areas. It is simply a part of doing business and included in the bids.

It is a good way to get people off government assistance and raise the standard of living... Otherwise teach them to support themselves... To me this is far better than the affirmative action we have today and no more expensive and it would certainly help only those that need it regardless of their race.

PS this would not be charity...but good economic sense.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/10/2015 8:37:40 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/10/2015 9:10:42 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I also see nothing wrong with organisations, city, state, and federal governments requiring contractors to hire and train a certain number of economically challenged entry level workers in their areas. It is simply a part of doing business and included in the bids.

I agree with your comments regarding helping those to help themselves, Butch, but I don't think this part would ever work out. You'd have to subsidize the employers somehow since they're only going to hire people based on the amount of work they have. Maybe you could do something like this for government contracts but not the private sector. You'd probably see employers hiring more people as sub-contractors in order to circumvent the regulations.



< Message edited by RottenJohnny -- 6/10/2015 9:14:37 PM >


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RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 7:14:27 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I am talking aid in education ...there are many academically qualified men and women that cannot afford a college education. I believe we should help them to help themselves. It will change lives and families and produce tax income... It should more than pay for itself.
I also see nothing wrong with organisations, city, state, and federal governments requiring contractors to hire and train a certain number of economically challenged entry level workers in their areas. It is simply a part of doing business and included in the bids.
It is a good way to get people off government assistance and raise the standard of living... Otherwise teach them to support themselves... To me this is far better than the affirmative action we have today and no more expensive and it would certainly help only those that need it regardless of their race.
PS this would not be charity...but good economic sense.
Butch


We already are helping the less economically blessed with education costs.

I disagree with the requirement for contractors to hire X number of economically challenged workers. Not only would the contractors have to hire people who don't have all the skills of the job, but they'd likely have to pay them Union wages on top of it.

I'd much rather see either a non-profit, or, perhaps even a government-run, trades training center that teaches every working age, able-bodied welfare recipient some sort of skill or trade. Participation in job training in exchange for welfare.


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RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 7:28:37 AM   
kdsub


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Johnny

Right now in St. Louis every city contract MUST have 25 % minority owned businesses as subcontractors or they do not get the bid. Even if these contractors are not qualified to do the work. All material must be purchased from minority owned businesses if feasible. If work can get done in these circumstances then removing this requirement and replacing it with a percentage of entry level workers and teaching them a trade will be doable.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/11/2015 7:29:55 AM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 7:36:08 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

We already are helping the less economically blessed with education costs


Good then lets help more by changing the requirements for racial diversity to economic standing along with educational achievement... who could complain then?

As for the rest of your post it is like paying a dime more for a hamburger at Micky D's so workers can make a living wage. I would be willing to have a portion of my tax money used through contractors to train a small portion of workers so they can support themselves and their families... AND PAY TAXES.

We can help the needy help themselves can't we? This money would be well spent and in the long run save us money.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/11/2015 7:38:45 AM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 8:50:55 AM   
JVoV


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Is the problem that there's a problem with minority access to the education, or that there's not enough minorities seeking that education?

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RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 9:05:17 AM   
kdsub


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We should not... or cannot... force anyone to take advantage of educational opportunities. I am a believer in the conservative view that each of us has a responsibility of supporting ourselves and taking advantage of what life has to offer. If a path is presented out of poverty and you or I do not take advantage of it we have no one to blame but ourselves.

I believe that if we want to support a program with the same goals of affirmative action then basing it on economic standing will be the most fair and accepted by all Americans. Now... if it is true that African Americans are the poorest group in American than they would benefit most by these new standards. But... rather than using race as a qualifier we will be using economics and this would remove the stigma of racial favoritism from the program.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/11/2015 9:09:21 AM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 9:18:26 AM   
JVoV


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Yeah, not what I was asking.

It seems like a Bachelor's degree in Air Traffic Control could be very limiting in its employment possibilities.

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RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 9:29:13 AM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Johnny

Right now in St. Louis every city contract MUST have 25 % minority owned businesses as subcontractors or they do not get the bid. Even if these contractors are not qualified to do the work. All material must be purchased from minority owned businesses if feasible. If work can get done in these circumstances then removing this requirement and replacing it with a percentage of entry level workers and teaching them a trade will be doable.

Butch



Yep, worked with that for years in California. Biggest scam you ever saw. Guys standing around doing nothing with million dollar contracts believing they had the right to it. It really didn't teach work eithics at all. I could tell you stories you wouldn't believe. It's just more of the same that made Baltimore.

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RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 9:30:54 AM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Yeah, not what I was asking.

It seems like a Bachelor's degree in Air Traffic Control could be very limiting in its employment possibilities.



Ya, but then they have schools to learn to be a pilot too. Far less chance to actually get a job being paid as a pilot. But, some people just like that industry and want to try.

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RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 9:50:17 AM   
JVoV


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Pilots can work in many private businesses, or start their own.

You don't see too many freelance air traffic controllers out there. Or much in the way of entrepreneural prospects really.

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RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 9:58:02 AM   
kdsub


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Joined: 8/16/2007
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But an average $122,000 salary is pretty attractive and perhaps worth a shot at obtaining it.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 11:44:16 AM   
HunterCA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Is the problem that there's a problem with minority access to the education, or that there's not enough minorities seeking that education?


Is there a culture of education in those communities? When I grew up there were books and magazines all over the house and everyone read. Ben Carson was poor and said he learned to find new worlds by reading. So at least in his household reading was part of the culture and he seemed to find the education he needed.

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RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 11:47:19 AM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am talking aid in education ...there are many academically qualified men and women that cannot afford a college education. I believe we should help them to help themselves. It will change lives and families and produce tax income... It should more than pay for itself.

I also see nothing wrong with organisations, city, state, and federal governments requiring contractors to hire and train a certain number of economically challenged entry level workers in their areas. It is simply a part of doing business and included in the bids.

It is a good way to get people off government assistance and raise the standard of living... Otherwise teach them to support themselves... To me this is far better than the affirmative action we have today and no more expensive and it would certainly help only those that need it regardless of their race.

PS this would not be charity...but good economic sense.

Butch



Because we dont have enough programs now?

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 12:14:36 PM   
HunterCA


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Joined: 6/21/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am talking aid in education ...there are many academically qualified men and women that cannot afford a college education. I believe we should help them to help themselves. It will change lives and families and produce tax income... It should more than pay for itself.

I also see nothing wrong with organisations, city, state, and federal governments requiring contractors to hire and train a certain number of economically challenged entry level workers in their areas. It is simply a part of doing business and included in the bids.

It is a good way to get people off government assistance and raise the standard of living... Otherwise teach them to support themselves... To me this is far better than the affirmative action we have today and no more expensive and it would certainly help only those that need it regardless of their race.

PS this would not be charity...but good economic sense.

Butch




Like this?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/06/10/teach_for_americas_professional_agitators_126918.html

The U.S. spends untold billions on this sort of shit. Without it the left political machine would wither and die on the vine. I also propose that if the teaching being done is politically correct that's its not teaching how to get a job but rather that they are owed a job. I could do with a lot less of that.

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 12:45:26 PM   
JVoV


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Joined: 3/9/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am talking aid in education ...there are many academically qualified men and women that cannot afford a college education. I believe we should help them to help themselves. It will change lives and families and produce tax income... It should more than pay for itself.

I also see nothing wrong with organisations, city, state, and federal governments requiring contractors to hire and train a certain number of economically challenged entry level workers in their areas. It is simply a part of doing business and included in the bids.

It is a good way to get people off government assistance and raise the standard of living... Otherwise teach them to support themselves... To me this is far better than the affirmative action we have today and no more expensive and it would certainly help only those that need it regardless of their race.

PS this would not be charity...but good economic sense.

Butch



Because we dont have enough programs now?


It may simply be a matter of making people aware of the programs. Any industry that is lacking on new recruits, or more culturally diverse recruits, should make an effort to get more. That could be as simple as sending speakers out to career days, or sending brochures and information about scholarship availability to guidance counselors.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 1:01:00 PM   
HunterCA


Posts: 2343
Joined: 6/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I am talking aid in education ...there are many academically qualified men and women that cannot afford a college education. I believe we should help them to help themselves. It will change lives and families and produce tax income... It should more than pay for itself.

I also see nothing wrong with organisations, city, state, and federal governments requiring contractors to hire and train a certain number of economically challenged entry level workers in their areas. It is simply a part of doing business and included in the bids.

It is a good way to get people off government assistance and raise the standard of living... Otherwise teach them to support themselves... To me this is far better than the affirmative action we have today and no more expensive and it would certainly help only those that need it regardless of their race.

PS this would not be charity...but good economic sense.

Butch



Because we dont have enough programs now?


It may simply be a matter of making people aware of the programs. Any industry that is lacking on new recruits, or more culturally diverse recruits, should make an effort to get more. That could be as simple as sending speakers out to career days, or sending brochures and information about scholarship availability to guidance counselors.


Excuse me. Why am I paying for all of that too besides paying for schools. Part of the debate Eric Holder would not have is that it's not a problem of education as much as it is, perhaps, a problem of not having a culture of education in various communities. One such community is the illigal immigrant community.

(in reply to JVoV)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 1:04:31 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
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Not add a program Sanity... replace the one we have with one that will not be so divisive. I believe it is the purpose of our government to improve and maintain the general welfare of its citizens... if it can be afforded. Improving the lot of our poor should be near the top of the list in my opinion.

The poor pay little in the way of taxes and the more that pay the less is needed from any one of us... otherwise share the burden. Imagine the health of our government and country if we could remove the welfare burden and have those people become productive and help support the government with their taxes.

Butch



< Message edited by kdsub -- 6/11/2015 1:05:42 PM >


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 1:05:57 PM   
mnottertail


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quote:



The U.S. spends untold billions on this sort of shit. Without it the left political machine would wither and die on the vine. I also propose that if the teaching being done is politically correct that's its not teaching how to get a job but rather that they are owed a job. I could do with a lot less of that.


Apparently (and we have a great deal of history to back this up) the rightwing shiteaters are porking out like a motherfucker, borrow and spend and blaming it on anyone but themselves, cuz they are ignorant shiteaters. If they didnt, they would wither and die in their slime and shitbreathing.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Biographically Ineligible - 6/11/2015 1:08:11 PM   
HunterCA


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Joined: 6/21/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Not add a program Sanity... replace the one we have with one that will not be so divisive. I believe it is the purpose of our government to improve and maintain the general welfare of its citizens... if it can be afforded. Improving the lot of our poor should be near the top of the list in my opinion.

The poor pay little in the way of taxes and the more that pay the less is needed from any one of us... otherwise share the burden. Imagine the health of our government and country if we could remove the welfare burden and have those people become productive and help support the government with their taxes.

Butch





I've said for years that I don't mind doing what is effective. The problem is that the left operates from emotion and doesn't care if a program is effective as long as they can say they did it for the children. Find me one leftist who'll say, "well that didn't work, perhaps we should try something else," and I'll vote for that person.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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