quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

FR

Didn't the same lobbyists write the ACA which NONE of the R's supported?

Yanno the one Pelosi didn't read?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: LipstickLeuger

I see crap like this at work. Something happens, and the family can't let go so they keep them alive with a feeding tube, a cath, and other various other sundries. The person never regains conciousness or never even does anything but stare at a wall. Even with a feeding tube, they slowly waste away. Us Therapists can't work miracles. The person suffers from atrophy of muscles tissues, shrinking tendons, contractures, infection after infection, systemic organ failure and the probability of more tubes and interventions, and no matter how good the care is, some pressure sores or bed sores if they are not turned every two hours or placed on a special mattress, and even then she would be at high risk for skin breakdown. Is this life?

Jeb Bush was a cruel, cruel man, as were her parents, for doing this to this girl. Yeah, I am passing judgement, because there is not anything like holding a gravely ill or dying persons hand and have them beg you to not make them 'like that Terry women'.

Agreed. It was a sick, disgusting thing to do. The worst example of government overreach I have ever seen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: LipstickLeuger

I see crap like this at work. Something happens, and the family can't let go so they keep them alive with a feeding tube, a cath, and other various other sundries. The person never regains conciousness or never even does anything but stare at a wall. Even with a feeding tube, they slowly waste away. Us Therapists can't work miracles. The person suffers from atrophy of muscles tissues, shrinking tendons, contractures, infection after infection, systemic organ failure and the probability of more tubes and interventions, and no matter how good the care is, some pressure sores or bed sores if they are not turned every two hours or placed on a special mattress, and even then she would be at high risk for skin breakdown. Is this life?

Jeb Bush was a cruel, cruel man, as were her parents, for doing this to this girl. Yeah, I am passing judgement, because there is not anything like holding a gravely ill or dying persons hand and have them beg you to not make them 'like that Terry women'.

Agreed. It was a sick, disgusting thing to do. The worst example of government overreach I have ever seen.

I'd like to know how you know that? As you weren't there and, assuming, not family. I read a wiki account of it and some of it is coming back to me. As I recall, which seems to be backed up by wiki buts it's not clear, back then the nearest next of kin had to patition the court to remove a feeding tube and stop treatment. It appears Schivao's husband spent years and lots of money trying to revive her to no avail. Then he petitioned the court to allow her to go to rest. Her parents intervened at court and a seven year battle ensued in court. By the time it became political, what was a politician who had no familiarity with the case to do. Pick between life or death. It was a poor system. One that doesn't exist now, at least in California. Now it's between the next of kin and the doctor only here. Had I been sitting in a political office and this sort of thing came to me with no foreknowledge or information, what would I have picked? It's a pretty shitty thing to say the choice that politician picked, life, was a terrible decision. It's clearly a uninformed biased thing to say that the decision was a bad decision. Especially if you weren't there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: LipstickLeuger

I see crap like this at work. Something happens, and the family can't let go so they keep them alive with a feeding tube, a cath, and other various other sundries. The person never regains conciousness or never even does anything but stare at a wall. Even with a feeding tube, they slowly waste away. Us Therapists can't work miracles. The person suffers from atrophy of muscles tissues, shrinking tendons, contractures, infection after infection, systemic organ failure and the probability of more tubes and interventions, and no matter how good the care is, some pressure sores or bed sores if they are not turned every two hours or placed on a special mattress, and even then she would be at high risk for skin breakdown. Is this life?

Jeb Bush was a cruel, cruel man, as were her parents, for doing this to this girl. Yeah, I am passing judgement, because there is not anything like holding a gravely ill or dying persons hand and have them beg you to not make them 'like that Terry women'.

Agreed. It was a sick, disgusting thing to do. The worst example of government overreach I have ever seen.

I'd like to know how you know that? As you weren't there and, assuming, not family. I read a wiki account of it and some of it is coming back to me. As I recall, which seems to be backed up by wiki buts it's not clear, back then the nearest next of kin had to patition the court to remove a feeding tube and stop treatment. It appears Schivao's husband spent years and lots of money trying to revive her to no avail. Then he petitioned the court to allow her to go to rest. Her parents intervened at court and a seven year battle ensued in court. By the time it became political, what was a politician who had no familiarity with the case to do. Pick between life or death. It was a poor system. One that doesn't exist now, at least in California. Now it's between the next of kin and the doctor only here. Had I been sitting in a political office and this sort of thing came to me with no foreknowledge or information, what would I have picked? It's a pretty shitty thing to say the choice that politician picked, life, was a terrible decision. It's clearly a uninformed biased thing to say that the decision was a bad decision. Especially if you weren't there.

It became POLITICAL because the Republican legislature passed a law giving Jeb Bush the right to intervene in this poor woman's (and her family's) life. When the court's overturned this horrible law. Bush appealed it to the Florida Supreme Court.

Your characterization of the events is soooo misleading and inaccurate. You make it seem like this decision was just dumped on his lap. WHat's a poor Governor to do? Then in typical right-wing kool-aid fashion. When a Republican acts like a complete asshole, you blame the system. It's a poor system.


The "System" was to let her husband decide. Her parents appealed several times but were overruled. The "System" was working just fine. UNTIL the Republican legislature gave the Governor the power to reach into their lives. Oh, and once this idiocy was overturned, to appeal it!!!

The new "system". The one you call "poor" was created by Jeb Bush, and the rubber stampers in his legislature.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Why is the gop forced to pander to the most extreme elements to win their nomination? Must really suck.

We`re arguing about fast trade.......

They are stooping to the lowest....



 Jeb Bush Brags About Interfering In Schiavo Case At Conservative Conference

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: LipstickLeuger

I see crap like this at work. Something happens, and the family can't let go so they keep them alive with a feeding tube, a cath, and other various other sundries. The person never regains conciousness or never even does anything but stare at a wall. Even with a feeding tube, they slowly waste away. Us Therapists can't work miracles. The person suffers from atrophy of muscles tissues, shrinking tendons, contractures, infection after infection, systemic organ failure and the probability of more tubes and interventions, and no matter how good the care is, some pressure sores or bed sores if they are not turned every two hours or placed on a special mattress, and even then she would be at high risk for skin breakdown. Is this life?

Jeb Bush was a cruel, cruel man, as were her parents, for doing this to this girl. Yeah, I am passing judgement, because there is not anything like holding a gravely ill or dying persons hand and have them beg you to not make them 'like that Terry women'.

Agreed. It was a sick, disgusting thing to do. The worst example of government overreach I have ever seen.

I'd like to know how you know that? As you weren't there and, assuming, not family. I read a wiki account of it and some of it is coming back to me. As I recall, which seems to be backed up by wiki buts it's not clear, back then the nearest next of kin had to patition the court to remove a feeding tube and stop treatment. It appears Schivao's husband spent years and lots of money trying to revive her to no avail. Then he petitioned the court to allow her to go to rest. Her parents intervened at court and a seven year battle ensued in court. By the time it became political, what was a politician who had no familiarity with the case to do. Pick between life or death. It was a poor system. One that doesn't exist now, at least in California. Now it's between the next of kin and the doctor only here. Had I been sitting in a political office and this sort of thing came to me with no foreknowledge or information, what would I have picked? It's a pretty shitty thing to say the choice that politician picked, life, was a terrible decision. It's clearly a uninformed biased thing to say that the decision was a bad decision. Especially if you weren't there.

It became POLITICAL because the Republican legislature passed a law giving Jeb Bush the right to intervene in this poor woman's (and her family's) life. When the court's overturned this horrible law. Bush appealed it to the Florida Supreme Court.

Your characterization of the events is soooo misleading and inaccurate. You make it seem like this decision was just dumped on his lap. WHat's a poor Governor to do? Then in typical right-wing kool-aid fashion. When a Republican acts like a complete asshole, you blame the system. It's a poor system.


The "System" was to let her husband decide. Her parents appealed several times but were overruled. The "System" was working just fine. UNTIL the Republican legislature gave the Governor the power to reach into their lives. Oh, and once this idiocy was overturned, to appeal it!!!

The new "system". The one you call "poor" was created by Jeb Bush, and the rubber stampers in his legislature.

MJ, one of the things I've never accused you of before was being incoherent. You are an articulate dude. Obviously a product of school before the federal government took it over. But...this...is not coherent. Please take a breath, relax, and restate it with citations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: LipstickLeuger

I see crap like this at work. Something happens, and the family can't let go so they keep them alive with a feeding tube, a cath, and other various other sundries. The person never regains conciousness or never even does anything but stare at a wall. Even with a feeding tube, they slowly waste away. Us Therapists can't work miracles. The person suffers from atrophy of muscles tissues, shrinking tendons, contractures, infection after infection, systemic organ failure and the probability of more tubes and interventions, and no matter how good the care is, some pressure sores or bed sores if they are not turned every two hours or placed on a special mattress, and even then she would be at high risk for skin breakdown. Is this life?

Jeb Bush was a cruel, cruel man, as were her parents, for doing this to this girl. Yeah, I am passing judgement, because there is not anything like holding a gravely ill or dying persons hand and have them beg you to not make them 'like that Terry women'.

Agreed. It was a sick, disgusting thing to do. The worst example of government overreach I have ever seen.

I'd like to know how you know that? As you weren't there and, assuming, not family. I read a wiki account of it and some of it is coming back to me. As I recall, which seems to be backed up by wiki buts it's not clear, back then the nearest next of kin had to patition the court to remove a feeding tube and stop treatment. It appears Schivao's husband spent years and lots of money trying to revive her to no avail. Then he petitioned the court to allow her to go to rest. Her parents intervened at court and a seven year battle ensued in court. By the time it became political, what was a politician who had no familiarity with the case to do. Pick between life or death. It was a poor system. One that doesn't exist now, at least in California. Now it's between the next of kin and the doctor only here. Had I been sitting in a political office and this sort of thing came to me with no foreknowledge or information, what would I have picked? It's a pretty shitty thing to say the choice that politician picked, life, was a terrible decision. It's clearly a uninformed biased thing to say that the decision was a bad decision. Especially if you weren't there.

It became POLITICAL because the Republican legislature passed a law giving Jeb Bush the right to intervene in this poor woman's (and her family's) life. When the court's overturned this horrible law. Bush appealed it to the Florida Supreme Court.

Your characterization of the events is soooo misleading and inaccurate. You make it seem like this decision was just dumped on his lap. WHat's a poor Governor to do? Then in typical right-wing kool-aid fashion. When a Republican acts like a complete asshole, you blame the system. It's a poor system.


The "System" was to let her husband decide. Her parents appealed several times but were overruled. The "System" was working just fine. UNTIL the Republican legislature gave the Governor the power to reach into their lives. Oh, and once this idiocy was overturned, to appeal it!!!

The new "system". The one you call "poor" was created by Jeb Bush, and the rubber stampers in his legislature.

MJ, one of the things I've never accused you of before was being incoherent. You are an articulate dude. Obviously a product of school before the federal government took it over. But...this...is not coherent. Please take a breath, relax, and restate it with citations.

It is all in the Wiki that you claimed to have read :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_involvement_in_the_Terri_Schiavo_case

Among 100's of other places :)

Just sayin'

quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Honestly, I saw government interference on behalf of the parents as an attack on the sanctity of marriage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

this really should go without saying, but since you constantly wear these hyper-partisan blinders i'll say it anyway:

is it possible that republicans do actually care about healthcare, but do so in a way that doesn't compromise their principles? you know, the ones that (ideally) advocate a free market, smaller government, fiscal soundness and individual freedom & choice as opposed to another step towards a nanny totalitarian state??

that you consistently ascribe base motivations and intentions to the people you disagree with should actually trouble you if you have a thoughtful and equitable conscience.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA
No MJ, your obviously hateful statement is not explained at all. Please explain your hate?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA
No MJ, your obviously hateful statement is not explained at all. Please explain your hate?

My "hate" as you call it, is for the act of a man that intervenes in the lives of citizens in his own state during a very emotional, and difficult time. I won't even attribute motives (even though they are obvious to most people). Regardless of motive, the act is cruel and disgusting. An absolute abuse of government power.

Equally, abusive (and disgusting for that matter) is for a state legislature to (on the fly BTW... based on this one case) draft a law, giving the Governor power to intervene on individual's lives in cases like this.

Honestly, it is not hate. (It is pure 100% disgust) :)

Read Michael Schiavo's account of the events:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/jeb-bush-terri-schiavo-114730.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Why is the gop forced to pander to the most extreme elements to win their nomination? Must really suck.

We`re arguing about fast trade.......

They are stooping to the lowest....



 Jeb Bush Brags About Interfering In Schiavo Case At Conservative Conference

As someone who has had to make such a choice, I hope that you will never have to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Why is the gop forced to pander to the most extreme elements to win their nomination? Must really suck.

We`re arguing about fast trade.......

They are stooping to the lowest....



 Jeb Bush Brags About Interfering In Schiavo Case At Conservative Conference

As someone who has had to make such a choice, I hope that you will never have to.

I already have and still have a mom withering away with total dementia in a nursing home.

What I would not want is for some craven politian or other attention whore interfering with my personal family affairs.

And I ESPESIALLY WOULD NOT WANT ANYONE INTERFERING WITH MY PERSONAL FAMILY AFFAIRS as a PUBLIC POLITICAL STUNT.

And the way you rightist treated Terri`s husband and guardian.....omg...was just absolutely shameful. All on tape though...the innernetzdon`tyaknow....

Claiming he was "killing" her to collect some money or chastising him for having a girlfriend after Terri was brain dead for ten years, and worse, making him into a heartless villain.

The sick right was speculating on every possible ugly depraved scenario and carrying water for Mr Sciavo`s inlaws.

And the most disgust part, besides POS jeb!`s meddling ,was you righties pretending to care about Terri Schiavo or spouting some fecal matter about sanctity of life or god.

I hope you never have a tragedy the right wing decides to humps on, to get themselves off.

I hope your governor doesn`t invade your privacy and family peace to get elected or win points with the lunatic fringe.

If jeb! does get the nomination, there will be plenty of opportunities to explain how/why you rightists gained so much contempt for privacy, the 4th Amendment and the Bill of Rights. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Why is the gop forced to pander to the most extreme elements to win their nomination? Must really suck.

We`re arguing about fast trade.......

They are stooping to the lowest....



 Jeb Bush Brags About Interfering In Schiavo Case At Conservative Conference

As someone who has had to make such a choice, I hope that you will never have to.

I already have and still have a mom withering away with total dementia in a nursing home.

What I would not want is for some craven politian or other attention whore interfering with my personal family affairs.

And I ESPESIALLY WOULD NOT WANT ANYONE INTERFERING WITH MY PERSONAL FAMILY AFFAIRS as a PUBLIC POLITICAL STUNT.

And the way you rightist treated Terri`s husband and guardian.....omg...was just absolutely shameful. All on tape though...the innernetzdon`tyaknow....

Claiming he was "killing" her to collect some money or chastising him for having a girlfriend after Terri was brain dead for ten years, and worse, making him into a heartless villain.

The sick right was speculating on every possible ugly depraved scenario and carrying water for Mr Sciavo`s inlaws.

And the most disgust part, besides POS jeb!`s meddling ,was you righties pretending to care about Terri Schiavo or spouting some fecal matter about sanctity of life or god.

I hope you never have a tragedy the right wing decides to humps on, to get themselves off.

I hope your governor doesn`t invade your privacy and family peace to get elected or win points with the lunatic fringe.

If jeb! does get the nomination, there will be plenty of opportunities to explain how/why you rightists gained so much contempt for privacy, the 4th Amendment and the Bill of Rights. 

Wow. That was a lot of bile aimed at someone who only expressed hope that you would never have to make the decision about whether or not to take someone off life support. The usual response is something along the lines of, "Thanks, I hope so too." For next time.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59

Why is the gop forced to pander to the most extreme elements to win their nomination? Must really suck.

We`re arguing about fast trade.......

They are stooping to the lowest....



 Jeb Bush Brags About Interfering In Schiavo Case At Conservative Conference

As someone who has had to make such a choice, I hope that you will never have to.

I already have and still have a mom withering away with total dementia in a nursing home.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

quote:

ORIGINAL: HunterCA
No MJ, your obviously hateful statement is not explained at all. Please explain your hate?

My "hate" as you call it, is for the act of a man that intervenes in the lives of citizens in his own state during a very emotional, and difficult time. I won't even attribute motives (even though they are obvious to most people). Regardless of motive, the act is cruel and disgusting. An absolute abuse of government power.

Equally, abusive (and disgusting for that matter) is for a state legislature to (on the fly BTW... based on this one case) draft a law, giving the Governor power to intervene on individual's lives in cases like this.

Honestly, it is not hate. (It is pure 100% disgust) :)

Read Michael Schiavo's account of the events:

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/01/jeb-bush-terri-schiavo-114730.html

Ya, not being there, not having been involved, you're ascribing blame. A fascist and sad thing. I'd ascribe shame to you. But you seem to have no shame. So what ever dude.