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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
They are speaking from personal experience and you say that that experience is wrong, by insisting that there are other way it can be made up.

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

There are MANY ways to make it up to your master without punishment.

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

You are taking issue with it, on their behalf. I'm not sure even they are as out-of-joint as you are. They give no indication of it.

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ORIGINAL: DerangedUnit

He figured out I dont respond to negative reinforcement. I never change my behaviour unless I want to, hitting me makes me hit back, ignoring me makes me ignore them, put something up my ass I put something up theres... so when I do something he doesn't like he holds me and hugs me and says hes sorry that he failed me and its all his fault and he loves me anyways.... so I do the same. I dont do things he doesn't like anymore because I dont want him taking the blame for my actions, it just makes me feel like im being frivolous, like I lost control if I do something to purposely hurt someone. He doesnt ask for things he thinks counter to me and goes out of his way to change his routine to make me happy so I do the same for him.

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Another reason for deliberate disobedient is because I feel he's not doing his job providing the mastery, leadership and consistency I need.

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

There are MANY ways to make it up to your master without punishment.

If you don't feel that telling somebody that they can do things different with their partner speaks to their specific relationships (instead of a general statement of: "there's many ways a s-type can make it up to their D-type") I honestly don't know what to tell ya, other than that we obviously disagree on what language speaks to what.

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

You are taking issue with it, on their behalf. I'm not sure even they are as out-of-joint as you are. They give no indication of it.

I'm not out-of-joint or taking issue with anything.

I simple disagree with you (I think I stated that several times now).

I'm sure you can you conceive of a person being able to disagree with you without it causing them to be out-of-joint, so there's really no need to try to drag the emotional state you're for whatever reason projecting on me into a discussion where it has no relevance.

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

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Another reason for deliberate disobedient is because I feel he's not doing his job providing the mastery, leadership and consistency I need.

"I feel". "I need". You assume the right to punish your "master" should he fail to give you what you need. You punish him by being disobedient.

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ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

I have a hard time understanding why you would bother disagreeing with me, since my conversation was not with you, nor was your point relevant to the original conversation.

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Nope, it's not a punishment.

It's simple the natural result of the terms of my interaction with him: namely that I don't submit out of my own volition, but rather because he creates a state in me in which I cannot choose to not submit.

Submitting to him when he is not actively provoking that submission would be dishonest, and akin to lying to him, because it would withhold from him the information he needs to determine what's really going on inside my head.

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Like I said: I don't have the desire to serve most subs have, so I don't pretend to be submissive, nor do I play one on tv. If disobedience is my natural response to the situation at hand, that's exactly what you're going to get, and I am not going to exercise self-control to hold myself to act as one supposes a submissive should.

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ORIGINAL: daniel1973

My master wouldn't be happy with you, I can tell you that, but trying to force you to conform to his standards wouldn't get him very far either, I guess.

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Submitting to him when he is not actively provoking that submission would be dishonest,

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

Dominant men do not actively provoke submission.

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ORIGINAL: keybler76

ive been a sub for sometime but only tinkering not taking anything seriously , can anyone tell me their ideas of how to really behave for your dom

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ORIGINAL: peppermint

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ORIGINAL: keybler76

ive been a sub for sometime but only tinkering not taking anything seriously , can anyone tell me their ideas of how to really behave for your dom

Wow this whole thread seems to have gotten off topic. The OP simply wanted to know if there were certain behaviors that were submissive. She didn't say anything about a punishment/reward relationship.

My advice is to be yourself. Don't try to play the role of some sort of ideal you have in your mind. Either you and your dominant are compatible or not. Either you have similar views or not. However, pretending to be someone you are not because you "think" that behavior makes you appear more submissive will only bite you in the ass eventually. No one can play a role 24/7. It's inevitable that you will show who and what you really are at some time. If you are the person the dominant you are seeing is seeking, then all is good. If you are not then it's best to part ways rather than play some sort of make believe role just so can pretend to be in a D/s relationship.

Edited because my spelling sucks at times

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ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar
It's somewhat akin to the difference between training a dog (where you use the dog's natural instinct to please you as pack leader to get it to comply) and training a cat (where the cat doesn't really care about pleasing you, but you can use the fact that you're stronger, smarter, more capable at predicting cause and effect, and able to control the cat's environment to 'trick' the cat into doing what you want). If you're a skilled trainer, the result between a trained cat and a trained dog might look very similar. But the methods of getting there are very different.
In the end though, most people who enjoy training animals prefer dogs over cats.

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ORIGINAL: daniel1973

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ORIGINAL: Arturas

Dominant men do not actively provoke submission.

Not true. Of course the idea is not that my master has to constantly clean up after me and provoking him to punish me would be a reason to doubt whether we really belong to each other.
The fact remains that when I didn't perform that well earlier today and when Master reminded me of the fact that there is a cane that can do very interesting things - at my expense but with very good results - trying harder was the natural choice for me.

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ORIGINAL: Kaliko

FR

Hmm. Some of you must have outstanding self-discipline because even though I want to to please him all the time and I want to be obedient all the time, it just doesn't happen all the time. I fall on both sides of the fence, I think. Sure, I do a lot of what I do because I love to serve him. That's probably more satisfying to me than to him, honestly. That's the "easy" stuff. Hard work, maybe. Tiring, maybe I want to be doing something else right at that time, but it's not a difficult struggle for me to decide to do it. But other times? Those can be struggles and the decision-maker for me is often "Oh, he will be pissed if I _______." It's not because I'm such a good person and I've seen the virtues of his demands. (Yet, anyway.) And it's certainly not because I have such self-control that as soon as he says "Stop doing that", I'm able to actually stop. It's because I don't want to piss him off. Which also means, I don't want to be punished - even though by "punish" I mean dealing with the consequences of having ticked him off. I know us well enough to know that usually, if I practice the behavior even if I'm not totally on board with it, that eventually I will be. I suppose that's being trained, in a way, and I'm more than okay with that. I need training, I guess, because not everything is as simple as "I do what he tells me to do." I like to think it is, but I've been humbled enough times by now to realize that no, I'm not as obedient as I wish I could claim to be. Which is really fine. Progress, by slow degrees. :) Growth. Etc. Frankly, even just admitting I ain't all that (submissive-wise) is something I might not have been able to do a few years ago.

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ORIGINAL: Kaliko

I need training, I guess, because not everything is as simple as "I do what he tells me to do." I like to think it is, but I've been humbled enough times by now to realize that no, I'm not as obedient as I wish I could claim to be.