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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

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BamaD


A The west was not settled by slave holders.
B If slavery had stood in the original 13 states it would have moved west in the whole country.

Not exactly correct. I'll site just one Jim Bowie had a slave named Joe at the Alamo. Even though slavery was illegal in Mexico at the time. It also had endentured servants (another form of slavery) who probably had a role in the Texas war of independence. She was black and indentured herself - Emily West https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_D._West

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
A The west was not settled by slave holders.
B If slavery had stood in the original 13 states it would have moved west in the whole country.

A It depends on what you consider west. There was once a time when Mississippi was considered "the west."

B My point was that if it had just remained confined to those states and didn't spread any further, then there probably wouldn't have been a Civil War

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
A The west was not settled by slave holders.
B If slavery had stood in the original 13 states it would have moved west in the whole country.

A It depends on what you consider west. There was once a time when Mississippi was considered "the west."

B My point was that if it had just remained confined to those states and didn't spread any further, then there probably wouldn't have been a Civil War

And my point is that your point is fantasy. A more realistic if is that if Eli Whitney had made a harvester as well as the cotton gin there would have been no civil war.

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
A The west was not settled by slave holders.
B If slavery had stood in the original 13 states it would have moved west in the whole country.

A It depends on what you consider west. There was once a time when Mississippi was considered "the west."

B My point was that if it had just remained confined to those states and didn't spread any further, then there probably wouldn't have been a Civil War

And my point is that your point is fantasy. A more realistic if is that if Eli Whitney had made a harvester as well as the cotton gin there would have been no civil war.

The first harvester was invented in 1826 by Patrick Bell. It was called a reaper.

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
A The west was not settled by slave holders.
B If slavery had stood in the original 13 states it would have moved west in the whole country.

A It depends on what you consider west. There was once a time when Mississippi was considered "the west."

B My point was that if it had just remained confined to those states and didn't spread any further, then there probably wouldn't have been a Civil War

And my point is that your point is fantasy. A more realistic if is that if Eli Whitney had made a harvester as well as the cotton gin there would have been no civil war.

The first harvester was invented in 1826 by Patrick Bell. It was called a reaper.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
A The west was not settled by slave holders.
B If slavery had stood in the original 13 states it would have moved west in the whole country.

A It depends on what you consider west. There was once a time when Mississippi was considered "the west."

B My point was that if it had just remained confined to those states and didn't spread any further, then there probably wouldn't have been a Civil War

And my point is that your point is fantasy. A more realistic if is that if Eli Whitney had made a harvester as well as the cotton gin there would have been no civil war.

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
A The west was not settled by slave holders.
B If slavery had stood in the original 13 states it would have moved west in the whole country.

A It depends on what you consider west. There was once a time when Mississippi was considered "the west."

B My point was that if it had just remained confined to those states and didn't spread any further, then there probably wouldn't have been a Civil War

And my point is that your point is fantasy. A more realistic if is that if Eli Whitney had made a harvester as well as the cotton gin there would have been no civil war.

I prefer to call it a "hypothetical," not "fantasy."

The overall point was that the Civil War was about the expansion of slavery, not about slavery as it was at the time of the Constitutional Convention. That's what all the squabbling and attempts at compromise were about in the decades leading up to the Civil War. The Southern politicians kept insisting that new slave states be admitted to the Union, and it was that moral and political wrong which was the main instigator which led to the Civil War. If KY, TN, AL, MS, FL, LA, AR, MO, and TX (which, in case you didn't know, lie west of the original 13 states) were not admitted as slave states, if those states in the "west" were not settled by slave holders, then there would have been no Civil War.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
And that is a fantasy because there would be no rational reason to allow slavery in the original states but to not let it stand.

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If Whitney hadn't invented the cotton gin slavery would have died out.

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
And that is a fantasy because there would be no rational reason to allow slavery in the original states but to not let it stand.

They made compromises because forming the American Union was their top priority. They considered it vital that the States be unified under a single government. They tolerated slavery, but put a time limit on it, calling for the end of slave importation by 1808. They realized that slavery had become an integral part of the Colonial economy and gave allowances to that effect. But rather than working towards industrialization and economic diversification as the North was doing, the Southern States just kept getting in deeper and deeper, making their economy even more dependent on slavery than it ever was in Colonial times.

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If Whitney hadn't invented the cotton gin slavery would have died out.

Yes, that's the commonly accepted speculation. But even that didn't necessitate slavery. They could have paid wages and treated their workers fairly, giving them equal rights, freedom, and the choice to leave if they so desired. You can't blame all that on Whitney. All he did was invent the cotton gin, but what the politicians and wealthy classes chose to do is all on them. Maybe it's "fantasy" to expect anyone in power to do the right thing, but let's not kid ourselves as to what was going on at the time and how it led to the bloodiest war in American history.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
A more realistic if is that if Eli Whitney had made a harvester as well as the cotton gin there would have been no civil war.

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ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
A more realistic if is that if Eli Whitney had made a harvester as well as the cotton gin there would have been no civil war.

No way. The people of the southern states had slavery ingrained in their culture. They believed in a biblically supported view of white superiority. They were determined to keep the status quo. The introduction of a harvesting machine would not have changed that one bit.

The southern states were NOT going to be told to abolish slavery. PERIOD.

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And what would that Biblical support be, precisely?

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ORIGINAL: dcnovice

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And what would that Biblical support be, precisely?

These may help:

Supportive passages from the Hebrew Scriptures (a.k.a. Old Testament)

Passages from the Christian Scriptures (New Testament)

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ORIGINAL: MasterJaguar01

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
A more realistic if is that if Eli Whitney had made a harvester as well as the cotton gin there would have been no civil war.

No way. The people of the southern states had slavery ingrained in their culture. They believed in a biblically supported view of white superiority. They were determined to keep the status quo. The introduction of a harvesting machine would not have changed that one bit.

The southern states were NOT going to be told to abolish slavery. PERIOD.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
A The west was not settled by slave holders.
B If slavery had stood in the original 13 states it would have moved west in the whole country.

A It depends on what you consider west. There was once a time when Mississippi was considered "the west."

B My point was that if it had just remained confined to those states and didn't spread any further, then there probably wouldn't have been a Civil War

And my point is that your point is fantasy. A more realistic if is that if Eli Whitney had made a harvester as well as the cotton gin there would have been no civil war.

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ORIGINAL: Aylee

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
A The west was not settled by slave holders.
B If slavery had stood in the original 13 states it would have moved west in the whole country.

A It depends on what you consider west. There was once a time when Mississippi was considered "the west."

B My point was that if it had just remained confined to those states and didn't spread any further, then there probably wouldn't have been a Civil War

And my point is that your point is fantasy. A more realistic if is that if Eli Whitney had made a harvester as well as the cotton gin there would have been no civil war.

BTW, I just wanted to add that it was Kathryn Littlefield Greene that made the cotton gin usable and used her funds for Whitney's patent. Wimmins were not allowed at the time.