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EPA and WOTUS - 7/14/2015 9:29:22 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		https://www.uschamber.com/blog/wave-lawsuits-hits-epa-water-rule?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Wallpost&utm_campaign=Status

Why is so much legal firepower being deployed? Because WOTUS pulls nearly every waterbody in American under federal jurisdiction, making EPA "effectively in charge of zoning the entire country." I previously wrote about how overreaching the new definition is: "[A]djacent" waters now under federal regulatory authority "include wetlands, ponds, lakes, oxbows, impoundments, and similar water features" that are "in the 100-year floodplain and that are within 1,500 feet" (five football fields) of a navigable water. The entire body of water is "adjacent" even if only a portion of it falls within the 100-year floodplain or within 1,500 feet of a navigable water."

Dry Creek in Fresno County, CA is considered a navigable water. It runs when it rains. Do you know any others? Probably.
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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/15/2015 8:01:11 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that...


In any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for the organization itself. Examples in education would be teachers who work and sacrifice to teach children, vs. union representatives who work to protect any teacher including the most incompetent. The Iron Law states that in all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions.


In later versions he substitutes "school administrators" as the second type of person.

They want power.

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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/15/2015 9:30:14 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
They want power.

And they need money.

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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/15/2015 10:00:48 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
They want power.

And they need money.


If Congress wont give them what they want, that doesnt matter to them. They will figure out some way to take it

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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/15/2015 10:34:59 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I think that it is time for congress to revisit several enviornmental laws. CAA, CWA, etc

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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/15/2015 10:41:58 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Yeah cos pollution has been so well managed by businesses.
giving our grandkids debt is a terrible thing, but poisoning the planet is ok.
you cant eat or drink money.
but you can bottle water and sell it to the highest bidder.


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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/15/2015 10:46:32 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Yeah cos pollution has been so well managed by businesses.
giving our grandkids debt is a terrible thing, but poisoning the planet is ok.
you cant eat or drink money.
but you can bottle water and sell it to the highest bidder.



Pure straw man fallacy

Ken isnt advocating for businesses to poison the planet, your argument reeks of desperation.

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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/15/2015 10:57:02 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Well lets look at it this way. The California central valley gets the majority of its polution from SF. Yet it is the central valley that is penalized. Not saying that the central valley raisin and grape crops, etc aren't a contributor, but why hasn't SF had to pay oh yeah cause they have pretty clean air.

Why are dry creek beds, washes, irrigation ditches, stock ponds, etc covered under the CWA when they are being used for the intended purpose. 1/4 or even 1/8 of an inch of rain in AZ can cause the desert to have walls of water running which makes a greater majority of the state a flood plain, so if you have a pool, coy or goldfish pond in your back yard it is now regulated under the EPA's rules and you need a federal permit to obtain permission to use it.

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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/15/2015 10:58:19 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		It wasnt an argument merely an observation.
that you think its more..., have fun, have at it....
Project away

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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/15/2015 2:29:46 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Yeah cos pollution has been so well managed by businesses.
giving our grandkids debt is a terrible thing, but poisoning the planet is ok.
you cant eat or drink money.
but you can bottle water and sell it to the highest bidder.


Should standing water on my property after a heavy rain really come under Federal EPA regulation?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/15/2015 6:15:34 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Yup Package it up, ship it to Cali cause they need it and they don't have to follow the rules LOL

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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/16/2015 1:29:42 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

https://www.uschamber.com/blog/wave-lawsuits-hits-epa-water-rule?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Wallpost&utm_campaign=Status

Why is so much legal firepower being deployed? Because WOTUS pulls nearly every waterbody in American under federal jurisdiction, making EPA "effectively in charge of zoning the entire country." I previously wrote about how overreaching the new definition is: "[A]djacent" waters now under federal regulatory authority "include wetlands, ponds, lakes, oxbows, impoundments, and similar water features" that are "in the 100-year floodplain and that are within 1,500 feet" (five football fields) of a navigable water. The entire body of water is "adjacent" even if only a portion of it falls within the 100-year floodplain or within 1,500 feet of a navigable water."

Dry Creek in Fresno County, CA is considered a navigable water. It runs when it rains. Do you know any others? Probably.


The US Chamber of Commerce, AKA Mouthpiece of the GOP, stated something they didnt like, that the Obama Administration is doing?

WoW....'big surprise'......

The EPA is changing things in accordance to our understanding of science. That most Americans in our nation don't even have a work knowledge of science (i.e. 11th grade or higher), should ALSO, not be a surprise. So we have a band of ignore people, being manipulated by a political group whom is a 'front' for a political party trying to attack the other party doing some good, during an election year, knowing the science is good for all Americans as it relates to water, but too corrupted by the 'Altar of Money' to be truthful or honest. That about spells it out real well....




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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/16/2015 1:36:51 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Yeah cos pollution has been so well managed by businesses.
giving our grandkids debt is a terrible thing, but poisoning the planet is ok.
you cant eat or drink money.
but you can bottle water and sell it to the highest bidder.


Should standing water on my property after a heavy rain really come under Federal EPA regulation?


Are you or others drinking from it, or using it in some method of sanitation (i.e. taking a shower)?

Are you packaging it up for sell in some form? Be it bottles of water, or the traditional kids selling lemonade in front of their house on a hot summer day?

You forget, DS, that the law must be applied 'across the board' not in individual situations. Your 'standing water' is treated just the same as a corporation's 'standing water' they might use in bottling of beverages. Just because your intention is not to use it, does not mean the same as letting it be of use by someone else.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: EPA and WOTUS - 7/16/2015 4:13:56 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Yeah cos pollution has been so well managed by businesses.
giving our grandkids debt is a terrible thing, but poisoning the planet is ok.
you cant eat or drink money.
but you can bottle water and sell it to the highest bidder.

Should standing water on my property after a heavy rain really come under Federal EPA regulation?

Are you or others drinking from it, or using it in some method of sanitation (i.e. taking a shower)?
Are you packaging it up for sell in some form? Be it bottles of water, or the traditional kids selling lemonade in front of their house on a hot summer day?
You forget, DS, that the law must be applied 'across the board' not in individual situations. Your 'standing water' is treated just the same as a corporation's 'standing water' they might use in bottling of beverages. Just because your intention is not to use it, does not mean the same as letting it be of use by someone else.


OMG!!! You're saying that, yes, a fucking puddle on my property after a rainstorm should fall under EPA regulation!!


I guess I'm going to have to improve drainage on my property now, just so I don't have the EPA fucking with me after it rains.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 14
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