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RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/16/2015 8:04:28 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Are you really standing on some silly argument that cities pass laws saying that they will not turn illegals over to ICE that


I'm not standing on an argument. You say there are sanctuary cities, yet prove nothing with evidence. the whole thing was created in a focus group for the GOP as a 'buzz phrase'. It means absolutely nothing in the legal code. Of anywhere except the fantasies of conservatives.

No one city that I'm aware of, has laws on the books allowing them to ignore federal laws. That being the case, there would be no sanctuary cities. That some police might know who is an illegal immigrant, but also knows the person(s) in question are no more a criminal than anyone else. Because if you have sped, even 1 mph over the speed limit....ANYWHERE....in the USA, your just as much a criminal hiding from the law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
they know that everyone of them will turn states evidence if they protect them?


No, but a police officer might look the other way, if given intel on a group of 'very bad people' whom are about to do something REALLY bad. They can always nail them later....

But you have this foolish understanding of reality. That they cross the boarder was bad. What have then done....SINCE...that time? Many of them have paid taxes. In fact, a chunk of them have payed INCOME TAXES. The IRS doesnt have to report them, that's not their duty. Yes, there is a provision in the IRS to voluntarily pay income taxes. Why would they do this?

Maybe they are trying to act in good faith to their intentions. In fact, back in 2005, a University of New Mexico study found the state was getting $100 million in revenue, rather than dollars lost. Meaning those illegal immigrants brought in more many than they used in any sort of government services and/or programs. Of course all the conservative groups tried to denounce it.

Because evidence and facts keep getting in the way of their fucked up fantasy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
And you think I want to shit all over someone?


Your doing it right now. Towards me, towards others; even those illegal immigrants. What have those illegal immigrants.....REALLY....done to you personality to have so much animosity directed at them?

Do you even consciously know?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
This week you have dominated not only the weeks top ten dumb posts but have taken over the number one all time one.


If I'm saying stuff you consider dumb, I must be making damn good argument to which you have no reply. Or should I be more specific here: No good, intellectually, decent arguments or comebacks.

Dont look now, but your shitting on someone....

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Take a deep breath.
Come to your senses.
Then come back.


Dude I live in Massachusetts. The air here is better than most of the other states of the nation! Hawaii may have us beat. But none of the red states come close!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Hopefully this will only take a year or two.


Time fills when your having fun!

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
PS If sanctuary cities don't exist why do you keep defending them.


I'm not defending them. They would have to exist as something besides GOP/TP bullshit and buzz phrases. Something with substance and tangibility. Like a LAW ON THE BOOKS.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/16/2015 8:11:13 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
What I wrote is true, FEMA was created by exec, order not a cabinet level agency or by law. Ask Bush II. (originally for what is in the name, Emergency Management) Also funded the reopening and multi-million$ refurbishing of Mount Weather for Reagan and allegedly, for that purpose, Berryville, Va.


Your...STILL...wrong. The executive order that brought all the concepts, laws, and government infrastructure that would later form FEMA, was created with President Carter. Kind of like how Homeland Security was created by Bush to bring laws, agencies, and one military branch (the USCG) under hone roof.

Before that point, most of the laws came into existence due to Congressional bills that became laws.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
It has since become the agency that can do and hide anything as part of HLS. Now $10 billion+/yr.


No it cant! What sort of bullshit media source are you getting your information from? They are accountable to the federal government. Each month they give an update on issues to Congress. So 'no', they can not do anything they want. In fact, there are....MANY...things they can not do. Like declare martial law for example.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
I am sure the DOJ is looking into the SF case.


And they'll evidentually make a decision on it....

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/16/2015 8:12:18 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
I'm not defending them. They would have to exist as something besides GOP/TP bullshit and buzz phrases. Something with substance and tangibility. Like a LAW ON THE BOOKS.



You need to research, SF uses local ordinance as the excuse for letting the illegal who committed murder last week. Even they admit it is a sanctuary city.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/16/2015 8:16:13 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
If I'm saying stuff you consider dumb, I must be making damn good argument to which you have no reply. Or should I be more specific here: No good, intellectually, decent arguments or comebacks.

When you say that we need to let the government do our thinking for us there is little to say but you are an idiot.
You do this all the time, get your head handed to you, ridicule the answer, then say the other person has made no attempt to refute your argument.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/16/2015 8:16:53 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I'm not defending them. They would have to exist as something besides GOP/TP bullshit and buzz phrases. Something with substance and tangibility. Like a LAW ON THE BOOKS.

You need to research, SF uses local ordinance as the excuse for letting the illegal who committed murder last week. Even they admit it is a sanctuary city.


Lets try this....AGAIN. SF does not have any laws (that I'm aware of) that allow it to be a sanctuary city. Unless you can show me a legitimate law on the books?

Yes, what happened in SF was horrible and tragic. People are murdered in all the states. Sometimes the killers get away.

Someone saying SF is a sanctuary city, and SF having...ACTUAL LAWS....stating it is such; are two very different concepts. You cant tell the difference right?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/16/2015 8:19:15 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
Your doing it right now. Towards me, towards others; even those illegal immigrants. What have those illegal immigrants.....REALLY....done to you personality to have so much animosity directed at them?


They are (and you have just agreed to that ) illegal that is enough.
I am not "shitting all over you" I am disagreeing with you.
I guess that in TPRM not being a liberal is being rude, but not here in the US.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/16/2015 8:30:46 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I'm not defending them. They would have to exist as something besides GOP/TP bullshit and buzz phrases. Something with substance and tangibility. Like a LAW ON THE BOOKS.

You need to research, SF uses local ordinance as the excuse for letting the illegal who committed murder last week. Even they admit it is a sanctuary city.


Lets try this....AGAIN. SF does not have any laws (that I'm aware of) that allow it to be a sanctuary city. Unless you can show me a legitimate law on the books?

Yes, what happened in SF was horrible and tragic. People are murdered in all the states. Sometimes the killers get away.

Someone saying SF is a sanctuary city, and SF having...ACTUAL LAWS....stating it is such; are two very different concepts. You cant tell the difference right?

They excused their actions in releasing him on local law that keeps them from holding anyone for ICE, they say they can't, by local law check on citizenship, a state legislator in CA is now pushing a bill to negate SF laws.\
So now you tell me I have to prove they aren't lying? They have taken pride in "protecting" illegals from deportation. He said the reason he went to SF was because he couldn't be deported from there, don't ask me to prove they are doing what they say they are. Prove they aren't.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/16/2015 8:32:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
FR
anyone who says that the government needs to do the thinking for anyone who disagrees with them is not just stupid he is a menace who should go someplace like N Korea where the government does the thinking for you.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/16/2015 8:45:10 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
FR

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city

Note right off that the term sanctuary city was not given to them by right-wingers hate for illegals, but by the cities themselves. The idea that they don't exist is a new claim by the left since this practice is falling out of favor.

In other words the lie is that they don't exist.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/16/2015 9:22:21 PM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city

Note right off that the term sanctuary city was not given to them by right-wingers hate for illegals, but by the cities themselves. The idea that they don't exist is a new claim by the left since this practice is falling out of favor.

In other words the lie is that they don't exist.


We have always been at war with Eurasia.

Please keep in mind that they really do believe that 1984 was an instruction manual.

Just relax and watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loEAFCMx77A

_____________________________

Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam

I don’t always wgah’nagl fhtagn. But when I do, I ph’nglui mglw’nafh R’lyeh.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/16/2015 9:25:53 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city

Note right off that the term sanctuary city was not given to them by right-wingers hate for illegals, but by the cities themselves. The idea that they don't exist is a new claim by the left since this practice is falling out of favor.

In other words the lie is that they don't exist.


We have always been at war with Eurasia.

Please keep in mind that they really do believe that 1984 was an instruction manual.

Just relax and watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loEAFCMx77A

lol


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Aylee)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/16/2015 10:07:15 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I'm not defending them. They would have to exist as something besides GOP/TP bullshit and buzz phrases. Something with substance and tangibility. Like a LAW ON THE BOOKS.

You need to research, SF uses local ordinance as the excuse for letting the illegal who committed murder last week. Even they admit it is a sanctuary city.


Lets try this....AGAIN. SF does not have any laws (that I'm aware of) that allow it to be a sanctuary city. Unless you can show me a legitimate law on the books?

Yes, what happened in SF was horrible and tragic. People are murdered in all the states. Sometimes the killers get away.

Someone saying SF is a sanctuary city, and SF having...ACTUAL LAWS....stating it is such; are two very different concepts. You cant tell the difference right?


Hey Joe How about this law http://sfgsa.org/index.aspx?page=1069

quote:



San Francisco Administrative Code Chapter 12H: Immigration Status

Sec. 12H.1. City and County of Refuge.
Sec. 12H.2. Use of City Funds Prohibited.
Sec. 12H.2-1. Chapter Provisions Inapplicable to Persons Convicted of Certain Crimes.
Sec. 12H.3. Clerk of Board to Transmit Copies of This Chapter; Informing City Employees.
Sec. 12H.4. Enforcement.
Sec. 12H.5. City Undertaking Limited to Promotion of General Welfare.
Sec. 12H.6. Severability.

SEC. 12H.1. CITY AND COUNTY OF REFUGE.
It is hereby affirmed that the City and County of San Francisco is a City and County of Refuge.

(Added by Ord. 375-89, App. 10/24/89)

(return to top )

SEC. 12H.2. USE OF CITY FUNDS PROHIBITED.
No department, agency, commission, officer or employee of the City and County of San Francisco shall use any City funds or resources to assist in the enforcement of federal immigration law or to gather or disseminate information regarding the immigration status of individuals in the City and County of San Francisco unless such assistance is required by federal or State statute, regulation or court decision. The prohibition set forth in this Chapter shall include, but shall not be limited to:

(a) Assisting or cooperating, in one's official capacity, with any Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) investigation, detention, or arrest procedures, public or clandestine, relating to alleged violations of the civil provisions of the federal immigration law.

(b) Assisting or cooperating, in one's official capacity, with any investigation, surveillance or gathering of information conducted by foreign governments, except for cooperation related to an alleged violation of City and County, State or federal criminal laws.

(c) Requesting information about, or disseminating information regarding, the immigration status of any individual, or conditioning the provision of services or benefits by the City and County of San Francisco upon immigration status, except as required by federal or State statute or regulation, City and County public assistance criteria, or court decision.

(d) Including on any application, questionnaire or interview form used in relation to benefits, services or opportunities provided by the City and County of San Francisco any question regarding immigration status other than those required by federal or State statute, regulation or court decision. Any such questions existing or being used by the City and County at the time this Chapter is adopted shall be deleted within sixty days of the adoption of this Chapter.

(Added by Ord. 375-89, App. 10/24/89)

(return to top )

SEC. 12H.2-1. CHAPTER PROVISIONS INAPPLICABLE TO PERSONS CONVICTED OF CERTAIN CRIMES.
Nothing in this Chapter shall prohibit, or be construed as prohibiting, a law enforcement officer from identifying and reporting any person pursuant to State or federal law or regulation who is in custody after being booked for the alleged commission of a felony and is suspected of violating the civil provisions of the immigration laws. In addition, nothing in this Chapter shall preclude any City and County department, agency, commission, officer or employee from (a) reporting information to the INS regarding an individual who has been booked at any county jail facility, and who has previously been convicted of a felony committed in violation of the laws of the State of California, which is still considered a felony under State law; (b) cooperating with an INS request for information regarding an individual who has been convicted of a felony committed in violation of the laws of the State of California, which is still considered a felony under state law; or (c) reporting information as required by federal or state statute, regulation or court decision, regarding an individual who has been convicted of a felony committed in violation of the laws of the State of California, which is still considered a felony under state law. For purposes of this Section, an individual has been "convicted" of a felony when: (a) there has been a conviction by a court of competent jurisdiction; and (b) all direct appeal rights have been exhausted or waived; or (c) the appeal period has lapsed.

However, no officer, employee or law enforcement agency of the City and County of San Francisco shall stop, question, arrest or detain any individual solely because of the individual's national origin or immigration status. In addition, in deciding whether to report an individual to the INS under the circumstances described in this Section, an officer, employee or law enforcement agency of the City and County of San Francisco shall not discriminate among individuals on the basis of their ability to speak English or perceived or actual national origin.
This Section shall not apply in cases where an individual is arrested and/or convicted for failing to obey a lawful order of a police officer during a public assembly or for failing to disperse after a police officer has declared an assembly to be unlawful and has ordered dispersal.

Nothing herein shall be construed or implemented so as to discourage any person, regardless of immigration status, from reporting criminal activity to law enforcement agencies.

(Added by Ord. 282-92, App. 9/4/92; amended by Ord. 238-93, App. 8/4/93)

(return to top )

SEC. 12H.3. CLERK OF BOARD TO TRANSMIT COPIES OF THIS CHAPTER; INFORMING CITY EMPLOYEES.
The Clerk of the Board of Supervisors shall send copies of this Chapter, including any future amendments thereto that may be made, to every department, agency and commission of the City and County of San Francisco, to California's United States Senators, and to the California Congressional delegation, the Commissioner of the INS, the United States Attorney General, and the Secretary of State and the President of the United States. Each appointing officer of the City and County of San Francisco shall inform all employees under her or his jurisdiction of the prohibitions in this ordinance, the duty of all of her or his employees to comply with the prohibitions in this ordinance, and that employees who fail to comply with the prohibitions of the ordinance shall be subject to appropriate disciplinary action. Each city and county employee shall be given a written directive with instructions for implementing the provisions of this Chapter.

(Added by Ord. 375-89, App. 10/24/89)

(return to top )

SEC. 12H.4. ENFORCEMENT.
The Human Rights Commission shall review the compliance of the City and County departments, agencies, commissions and employees with the mandates of this ordinance in particular instances in which there is question of noncompliance or when a complaint alleging noncompliance has been lodged.

(Added by Ord. 375-89, App. 10/24/89)

(return to top )

SEC. 12H.5. CITY UNDERTAKING LIMITED TO PROMOTION OF GENERAL WELFARE.
In undertaking the adoption and enforcement of this Chapter, the City is assuming an undertaking only to promote the general welfare. This Chapter is not intended to create any new rights for breach of which the City is liable in money damages to any person who claims that such breach proximately caused injury. This section shall not be construed to limit or proscribe any other existing rights or remedies possessed by such person.

(Added by Ord. 375-89, App. 10/24/89)

(return to top )

SEC. 12H.6. SEVERABILITY.
If any part of this ordinance, or the application thereof, is held to be invalid, the remainder of this ordinance shall not be affected thereby, and this ordinance shall otherwise continue in full force and effect. To this end, the provisions of this ordinance, and each of them, are severable.


(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: AZ HB 2368 Passes House - 7/17/2015 1:33:29 PM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Are you really standing on some silly argument that cities pass laws saying that they will not turn illegals over to ICE that


I'm not standing on an argument. You say there are sanctuary cities, yet prove nothing with evidence. the whole thing was created in a focus group for the GOP as a 'buzz phrase'. It means absolutely nothing in the legal code. Of anywhere except the fantasies of conservatives.

No one city that I'm aware of, has laws on the books allowing them to ignore federal laws. That being the case, there would be no sanctuary cities. That some police might know who is an illegal immigrant, but also knows the person(s) in question are no more a criminal than anyone else. Because if you have sped, even 1 mph over the speed limit....ANYWHERE....in the USA, your just as much a criminal hiding from the law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
PS If sanctuary cities don't exist why do you keep defending them.


I'm not defending them. They would have to exist as something besides GOP/TP bullshit and buzz phrases. Something with substance and tangibility. Like a LAW ON THE BOOKS.



absolutely mind boggling incredibly deluded...

how much does it really matter whether things exist by law, or by common practice??

and I love how everyone after the fact took you to school.

not that I haven't been guilty of this myself at times---and never minding the liberal la-la land where you simply make things up (GOP focus group creation, tea party buzz phrase? please, was that in your George soros email talking points directions this morning or what?)---what's it like for you when your mouth so often outpaces your brain?

while im here, ive posted this elsewhere:

if you are reading this comrade penguin, nothing you said really refutes my point about leftists desire to control other people being in their dna and some of it, even though you used the same words, is actually off-topic. if you want to have an "in-depth" conversation about it, you know, the kind you apparently crave, I invite you to start a new thread on it.

and since the thread's gotten removed you might not have seen my also inviting you to start a thread on exactly how Christianity has interfered with medical research and treatment in general, and with stem cells in particular.

I like to think you'd be capable of learning how the other half thinks so to speak, or what the other half knows, but im skeptical...however, the thread would at least be good for many of the rest of us.


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 7/17/2015 1:56:29 PM >

(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 33
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