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Another Corrupt Politican - 7/29/2015 1:57:35 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33710611

Weed them all out. Put them all under the jail. As long as you can prove it
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RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 7/30/2015 12:38:29 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33710611
Weed them all out. Put them all under the jail. As long as you can prove it


If he's guilty, I support whatever sentence is appropriate. We can only hope that those that are guilty will be discovered, found guilty, and sentenced, so justice is served.


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RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 7/30/2015 3:44:01 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The world is full of corrupt politicians, sadly as fast as you weed out one, another appears.

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RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 7/30/2015 4:13:47 AM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
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Having been here more than two years, I am finding out that the great Commonwealth of Pennsyltucky is almost as corrupt as New Jersey.

I used to believe it was dichotomy. Now, I believe it to be a mirror affect.



Michael

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RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 7/30/2015 8:01:47 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33710611

Weed them all out. Put them all under the jail. As long as you can prove it

imo, to be a politician is to be corrupt.. its part of the job description.. what really gets me is that corrupt politicians can still be re-elected.. there have been a couple that have had the gall to run again and win.. that just fuking blows my mind..

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RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 7/30/2015 9:00:16 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		tj I totally disagree. not all politicians are corrupt. I will agree that I think a bunch are tho. Just can't prove it and believe me I tried.

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RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 7/31/2015 10:41:03 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

tj I totally disagree. not all politicians are corrupt. I will agree that I think a bunch are tho. Just can't prove it and believe me I tried.

there is corruption and then there is CORRUPTION.. to be a politician you need to corrupt your values, your goals, your mission, things you want to accomplish.. as an example, Obama and his ACA.. what he ended up getting was so far from what he originally wanted.. its a dogs breakfast and an expensive, convoluted one at that.. in trying to make his promise to voters a reality, he had to sell out to insurance corps, medical corps, drug corps, doctors, the Repubs, etc etc.. He has brought in people from Monsanto, from hedge funds & the financial industry, etc to run various departments, to take advice from, etc and that again is another sell out and corruption.. Once a politician starts down that slippery slope they become more and more corrupt, including those that started out with the best intentions.. As I said, to be a politician is to be corrupt..

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RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 7/31/2015 10:58:42 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		I'm all for removing corruption and fraud, let us also remember that regardless of political party: a person charged of a crime is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. As much as those on the left like to attack GOP/TP individuals or those on the right attacking the Democrats; the individual charged is still afforded all the rights and privileges of a US Citizen until such time as they are found guilty of one or more charges.

If we allow ourselves to become a 'mob mentality' when it comes to dealing with potential criminals of law; then it is likely it will spill over into other areas. That the mob mentality trumps the minority on all things, not just 'how we deal with criminals'. Therefore it is up to us as a nation and people to keep from sliding down that path.

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RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 7/31/2015 11:07:17 AM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

tj I totally disagree. not all politicians are corrupt. I will agree that I think a bunch are tho. Just can't prove it and believe me I tried.

there is corruption and then there is CORRUPTION.. to be a politician you need to corrupt your values, your goals, your mission, things you want to accomplish.. as an example, Obama and his ACA.. what he ended up getting was so far from what he originally wanted.. its a dogs breakfast and an expensive, convoluted one at that.. in trying to make his promise to voters a reality, he had to sell out to insurance corps, medical corps, drug corps, doctors, the Repubs, etc etc.. He has brought in people from Monsanto, from hedge funds & the financial industry, etc to run various departments, to take advice from, etc and that again is another sell out and corruption.. Once a politician starts down that slippery slope they become more and more corrupt, including those that started out with the best intentions.. As I said, to be a politician is to be corrupt..


You have a very cynical look on people in public service. You assume many untrue things as 'fact' while ignoring many facts that show the person is good, lawful, and just. Let's take your 'example'....

...Did you read and understand the Affordable Care Act? No of course not. We have not accused you of being informed for a reason! Did you read President Obama's original document he sent to Congress? No, again! Because if you did.....THEN.....you could form a possible attack argument on the man. I say possible, since the document would have benefited you directly. Only a rabid dog bites the hand that feeds it; an so do conservatives whom are uninformed! Did you read the original document that was in the House in 2009? No, that too would be useful to your 'position'. Nor the Senate version. Why two versions? Because the House and Senate liked and disliked stuff from the President's original document. So they had to get together, and work out the bugs to form a final version.

Even after voted into law, I can understand where the bugs and problems exist. An would like them fixed ASAP. Since you are ignorant and clueless, you have no idea what I am talking about. The President didnt sell out anyone. He made a conscious decision that improved the level of healthcare for 17-23 million Americans that didnt have any before. Helped the courts in handling insurance cases more sanely and 'across the board'. The final document spells the laws as they pertain to individual Americans quite clearly.

But you know none of this and more, because your ignorant!

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 7/31/2015 12:42:11 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

I can understand where the bugs and problems exist.

What in your view are the specific "bugs and problems" in the ACA?

K.






< Message edited by Kirata -- 7/31/2015 12:49:54 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 7/31/2015 4:31:25 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
I can understand where the bugs and problems exist.

What in your view are the specific "bugs and problems" in the ACA?


You might want to make that another thread. Even still, I'd have to find my notes from five years ago. Over time, they have been added and redone given new information on one concept or another.

Off hand (and to give an example since you asked...), change the number of 'levels of healthcare' from four to six or maybe eight.

What am I talking about?

Right now, there are four levels of healthcare policies: Bronze, Silver, Gold, and Platinum. Bronze is the lowest with Platinum being the highest. Well, let me state it....more...correctly. Bronze level you will pay less initially to have, but the insurance company will pay less of the healthcare bill you incur for whatever reason. There is a large sum of money you pay initially for the Platinum, but the insurance company picks up more of the 'tab' on the bills.

Why this system?

Before the ACA, healthcare policies were....ALL OVER THE FUCKING PLACE. And that's putting it mildly....

When a policy came into question in the court room, the judge often had a hard time figuring out how to best determine 'fault' and 'damage'. This is because no two healthcare policies from different companies were the same. Judges, as you might be surprised to learn, do NOT, like to 'legislate from the bench' (liberal or conservative). Often when one policy was decided it left to many more questions open than solved. This created an ever increasing level of problems in legal, financial, and insurance areas.

Making just four types means if a judge rules on a policy designed as 'Silver', it could more reasonably apply to all other 'Silver' level policies. On the individual side, it makes it easier to identify what your likely to see within such a policy. What you will pay, how much the insurance company pays on bills and so on. This concept was on the GOP Healthcare initiatives during the Bush Administration of 2000-2004.

Regardless of policy it should be noted that you do receive a number of benefits, regardless of policy level. Off the top of my head....

Women can get free breast care screenings, men prostate screenings. You can get your blood checked (to see your blood sugar level for example). Bunch of other things that you can find with a web search.

Why would I change it?

Four is good, but limited. I would say six or even eight to give additional levels of flexibility. However the underlying cost here is one of understanding and knowledge. Most Americans (sadly) find just four tiers to be complicated, let alone six or eight. So we sacrifice innovation on healthcare strategies and systems, so we keep things simple for the American population (which is what they demanded in 2006-2008 lead up to the election).


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Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 8/2/2015 6:38:00 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

tj I totally disagree. not all politicians are corrupt. I will agree that I think a bunch are tho. Just can't prove it and believe me I tried.

there is corruption and then there is CORRUPTION.. to be a politician you need to corrupt your values, your goals, your mission, things you want to accomplish.. as an example, Obama and his ACA.. what he ended up getting was so far from what he originally wanted.. its a dogs breakfast and an expensive, convoluted one at that.. in trying to make his promise to voters a reality, he had to sell out to insurance corps, medical corps, drug corps, doctors, the Repubs, etc etc.. He has brought in people from Monsanto, from hedge funds & the financial industry, etc to run various departments, to take advice from, etc and that again is another sell out and corruption.. Once a politician starts down that slippery slope they become more and more corrupt, including those that started out with the best intentions.. As I said, to be a politician is to be corrupt..


You have a very cynical look on people in public service. You assume many untrue things as 'fact' while ignoring many facts that show the person is good, lawful, and just. Let's take your 'example'....

...Did you read and understand the Affordable Care Act? No of course not. We have not accused you of being informed for a reason! Did you read President Obama's original document he sent to Congress? No, again! Because if you did.....THEN.....you could form a possible attack argument on the man. I say possible, since the document would have benefited you directly. Only a rabid dog bites the hand that feeds it; an so do conservatives whom are uninformed! Did you read the original document that was in the House in 2009? No, that too would be useful to your 'position'. Nor the Senate version. Why two versions? Because the House and Senate liked and disliked stuff from the President's original document. So they had to get together, and work out the bugs to form a final version.

Even after voted into law, I can understand where the bugs and problems exist. An would like them fixed ASAP. Since you are ignorant and clueless, you have no idea what I am talking about. The President didnt sell out anyone. He made a conscious decision that improved the level of healthcare for 17-23 million Americans that didnt have any before. Helped the courts in handling insurance cases more sanely and 'across the board'. The final document spells the laws as they pertain to individual Americans quite clearly.

But you know none of this and more, because your ignorant!

the only "bugs" and "problems were that greedy "industry" and their lobbyists didnt like Obama's original plan.. and that is why y'all pay 2 to 4 times as much as you should for your medical costs.. (suckers)

How many of that 17-23 million that have been forced to sign on for ACA still cant get medical care due to high deductibles that they cant afford? (66 million cant afford it)..

"More than 1 in 4 adults who bought insurance for themselves or their families last year had to skip needed medical care because they couldn't afford it"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/05/14/1-in-4-adults-had-insurance-but-still-couldnt-afford-medical-care/


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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 8/2/2015 6:48:48 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
they only "bugs" and "problems were that greedy "industry" and their lobbyists didnt like Obama's original plan.. and that is why y'all pay 2 to 4 times as much as you should for your medical costs..


If we had gone with the President's original plan, things would be different. By why explain that one? Most of you on this board have a tough time understanding the ACTUAL LAW ON THE BOOKS for five years and counting now!

However, there were companies that did push for the President's plan. They actually help get Mass Health (the healthcare system in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts) off the ground and into working operation. Not every company and corporation is sleazy and greedy. There are some that are quite ethical in all areas.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
How many of that 17-23 million that have been forced to sign on for ACA still cant get medical care due to high deductibles that they cant afford? (66 million cant afford it)..


None. Not a single one of them. Where does your number "...66 million..." come from?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
"More than 1 in 4 adults who bought insurance for themselves or their families last year had to skip needed medical care because they couldn't afford it"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/05/14/1-in-4-adults-had-insurance-but-still-couldnt-afford-medical-care/


And what plan did they purchase again, tj444?

Was it....Bronze? Silver? Gold? Or Platinum?

If we are using logic here, most likely these people purchased the Bronze and the least costly of the four types. Why is it logical? Because those who pay for the platinum levels most likely have a huge stockpile of financial resources to pull from. Same for the Gold. Some people with Silver plans might be in this same boat due to financial mishandling and poor budget making skills. Bronze plan owners tend to be financially poor for one or more reasons. Not all the states signed up for the federal subsidy. Most of the 'red states' did not do this as a 'challenge' and 'fight the president' bullshit; their citizens whom purchased bronze plans suffered as a result. However, those costs went through so the states 'ate' the costs. So if your going to blame someone, make sure its the guilty rather than the innocent!

So you apparently didn't learn much from what I explain quite clearly above about the four different plan types. What you did, was search 'bronze' and 'medical costs', and got your interesting but not qualifying counter argument that I defeated in like 10 seconds of thought.

< Message edited by joether -- 8/2/2015 6:52:17 PM >

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 8/2/2015 7:05:57 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
they only "bugs" and "problems were that greedy "industry" and their lobbyists didnt like Obama's original plan.. and that is why y'all pay 2 to 4 times as much as you should for your medical costs..


If we had gone with the President's original plan, things would be different. By why explain that one? Most of you on this board have a tough time understanding the ACTUAL LAW ON THE BOOKS for five years and counting now!

However, there were companies that did push for the President's plan. They actually help get Mass Health (the healthcare system in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts) off the ground and into working operation. Not every company and corporation is sleazy and greedy. There are some that are quite ethical in all areas.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
How many of that 17-23 million that have been forced to sign on for ACA still cant get medical care due to high deductibles that they cant afford? (66 million cant afford it)..


None. Not a single one of them. Where does your number "...66 million..." come from?

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
"More than 1 in 4 adults who bought insurance for themselves or their families last year had to skip needed medical care because they couldn't afford it"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/05/14/1-in-4-adults-had-insurance-but-still-couldnt-afford-medical-care/


And what plan did they purchase again, tj444?

Was it....Bronze? Silver? Gold? Or Platinum?

If we are using logic here, most likely these people purchased the Bronze and the least costly of the four types. Why is it logical? Because those who pay for the platinum levels most likely have a huge stockpile of financial resources to pull from. Same for the Gold. Some people with Silver plans might be in this same boat due to financial mishandling and poor budget making skills. Bronze plan owners tend to be financially poor for one or more reasons.

So you apparently didn't learn much from what I explain quite clearly above about the four different plan types. What you did, was search 'bronze' and 'medical costs', and got your interesting but not qualifying counter argument that I defeated in like 10 seconds of thought.

its stupid.. leave it to America to make something that should be simple for everyone so damn complicated that even fucking lawyers cant figure it out.. how many pages is this law? 1000 pages? more?


"This U.S. doctor is moving to Canada. Find out why.

According to a survey conducted by the Commonwealth Fund, 66 million — 36 percent of Americans — reported delaying or forgoing needed medical care in 2014 due to cost."
http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2015/05/this-u-s-doctor-is-moving-to-canada-find-out-why.html

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 8/2/2015 7:49:19 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Just a thought; could it be the ACA is designed to be the ineffective abomination it is in order to foment enough dissatisfaction to accept socialized medicine? If so, it might be working.

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Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 8/3/2015 1:30:20 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Just a thought; could it be the ACA is designed to be the ineffective abomination it is in order to foment enough dissatisfaction to accept socialized medicine? If so, it might be working.


lol

"Brits Think We're Nuts for Believing Our Health System Is Better Than Theirs

My former colleagues have been unceasing in their depiction of the NHS as "socialized medicine." How could anything in the world possibly be worse than a single-payer system in which insurance companies would be unnecessary?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wendell-potter/brits-think-were-nuts-for_b_6735872.html

BTW, your medical system was an abomination well before ACA..

and back to the corrupt politicians..

"Jimmy Carter Is Correct that the U.S. Is No Longer a Democracy

"It violates the essence of what made America a great country in its political system. Now it's just an oligarchy with unlimited political bribery being the essence of getting the nominations for president or being elected president. And the same thing applies to governors, and U.S. Senators and congress members. So, now we've just seen a subversion of our political system as a payoff to major contributors, who want and expect, and sometimes get, favors for themselves after the election is over. ... At the present time the incumbents, Democrats and Republicans, look upon this unlimited money as a great benefit to themselves. Somebody that is already in Congress has a great deal more to sell.""

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/jimmy-carter-is-correct-t_b_7922788.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

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RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 8/3/2015 3:49:54 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Texas attourney general....booked on fraud charges.......


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\(•_•)
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Dont Hate Love

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RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 8/3/2015 4:05:05 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Texas attourney general....booked on fraud charges.......



Psstttt.......... Sometimes we dont use a "U" either.

Just trying to help hon........

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 8/3/2015 4:10:54 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Texas attourney general....booked on fraud charges.......



Psstttt.......... Sometimes we dont use a "U" either.

Just trying to help hon........



You weren't. You were being caddish and brutish, PS.


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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Another Corrupt Politican - 8/3/2015 6:26:48 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Texas attourney general....booked on fraud charges.......



Psstttt.......... Sometimes we dont use a "U" either.

Just trying to help hon........


pah...i was on my damn tablet, my bad, attorney..


_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

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Dont Hate Love

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Profile   Post #: 20
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