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RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/24/2015 6:32:33 AM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Those regulations determined your rights at that time...and they do today...


No, they did not and no they do not. The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Determine what my rights are.



quote:

and if they are against the majority thinking they will change...


They were changed by quite a bit less than the majority.




quote:

You do not have the freedom to live by your personal beliefs if they conflict with the laws of the land...don't believe me...try it.

Butch


This is the third time I have posted this:

"If those personal freedoms are my rights then of course they are more important than social regulations. Don't you think?"

The Constitution is pretty clear about my rights. Some individual in Ferguson does not have the authority to change the constitution.
A far as "trying it" ...they were called "freedom riders" and history shows us that they were quite successful.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/24/2015 9:56:18 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

No, they did not and no they do not. The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Determine what my rights are.


You are just being silly now... first civil rights laws were enacted without changes to the Constitution and 2nd the Constitution has been changed many times by the people over our history. The Constitution is a living changing document that represents the determined will of the majority.

quote:

"If those personal freedoms are my rights then of course they are more important than social regulations. Don't you think?"


And once again... you may decide your personal right is to not bake a cake for gays...or... not to serve African Americans in your restaurant... or...you may decide it is your right to have three wives...etc. Nope... your rights are only valid within the constraints of the laws of your society...they determine your rights... not you...except through the ballot box.

This discussion though interesting has little to do with Ferguson...except in encouraging blacks in that area to avail themselves of their voting power... Which they have to some extent. So have at your rebuttal and I'll see you on another thread.

Butch



< Message edited by kdsub -- 8/24/2015 9:58:43 AM >

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/24/2015 12:10:38 PM   
Thegunnysez


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/17/2015
Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

No, they did not and no they do not. The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Determine what my rights are.


quote:

You are just being silly now...


Why do you think the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence are silly?



quote:

first civil rights laws were enacted without changes to the Constitution


The 13,14 and 15 amendments to the constitution would seem to disagree with you.





quote:

and 2nd the Constitution has been changed many times by the people over our history.



It has been attempted more than a thousand times but only successfully 17 times. Subtract two of those for prohibition and it's repeal and we are down to 15




quote:

The Constitution is a living changing document that represents the determined will of the majority.


No it does not. The constitution was designed to prevent the tyranny of the majority.

quote:

"If those personal freedoms are my rights then of course they are more important than social regulations. Don't you think?"


quote:

And once again... you may decide your personal right is to not bake a cake for gays...or... not to serve African Americans in your restaurant... or...you may decide it is your right to have three wives...etc. Nope...


Why would you think the Constitution protects my right to do any of those things? The things I mentioned are the exact opposite of those.


quote:

your rights are only valid within the constraints of the laws of your society...they determine your rights... not you...except through the ballot box.


When James Meridith determined he had a right to attend "Old Miss" it was not the ballot box that put him there it was the 101st airborne division.

quote:

This discussion though interesting has little to do with Ferguson...


I should think it would be most appropriate for Ferguson. When the authorities behave in a criminal manner how can you expect the residents to abide by that?




(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/24/2015 6:30:29 PM   
Kirata


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Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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~ FR ~

Here's someone with a solution to a lot of the tension and violence....

Everett Mitchell on Best Policing Practices

Stop arresting people for stealing from big box stores with insurance.

K.



(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/24/2015 7:00:41 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I don't know what to say... First they don't want to be searched and or arrested when they have warrants... they don't think they should have to pay fines for traffic violations... they don't think police have a right to defend themselves when faced with a black man and a gun or knife...now they should not be arrested if a store has insurance to cover the loss... It is beyond me to understand such ignorance.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/24/2015 7:34:44 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't know what to say...

It's stunning, I'll give it that. It's bad enough to argue that blacks should be held to a lower standard of behavior, as if they were just a hopelessly larcenous and assaultive race for whom civilized restraints are oppressive. But to see blacks themselves promoting this crap is mind-boggling.

K.




< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/24/2015 7:36:47 PM >

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/24/2015 7:42:17 PM   
Thegunnysez


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Joined: 8/17/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata



It's stunning, I'll give it that. It's bad enough to argue that blacks should be held to a lower standard of behavior, as if they were just a hopelessly larcenous and assaultive race for whom civilized restraints are oppressive. But watching blacks themselves promoting this crap is mind-boggling.

K.






It's stunning, I'll give it that. It's bad enough to argue that whites should be held to a lower standard of behavior, as if they were just a hopelessly larcenous and assaultive race for whom civilized restraints are oppressive. But watching whites themselves promoting this crap is mind-boggling.

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/02/14/10-outrageous-reasons-black-people-were-lynched-in-america/

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/24/2015 8:23:22 PM   
Kirata


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From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

It's stunning, I'll give it that. It's bad enough to argue that blacks should be held to a lower standard of behavior, as if they were just a hopelessly larcenous and assaultive race for whom civilized restraints are oppressive. But watching blacks themselves promoting this crap is mind-boggling.

It's stunning, I'll give it that. It's bad enough to argue that whites should be held to a lower standard of behavior, as if they were just a hopelessly larcenous and assaultive race for whom civilized restraints are oppressive. But watching whites themselves promoting this crap is mind-boggling.

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/02/14/10-outrageous-reasons-black-people-were-lynched-in-america/

Do you see someone arguing that whites should be held to a lower standard of behavior?

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/24/2015 8:56:44 PM >

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/24/2015 9:41:03 PM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

Do you see someone arguing that whites should be held to a lower standard of behavior?


Ooooh! that's a good one! *applauds*

The cite is pretty clear about who is not hanging from the trees. Many find fault with the behavior of the people in Ferguson. The white people on the ground were held to a lower standard of behavior than those hanging from the trees. Those on the ground are guilty of murder those in the trees are guilty of being black. In the U.S. a person, even the non white ones,(that is part of the 14th amendment) are innocent until proved guilty.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/24/2015 9:52:53 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

Do you see someone arguing that whites should be held to a lower standard of behavior?

The cite is pretty clear about who is not hanging from the trees. Many find fault with the behavior of the people in Ferguson. The white people on the ground were held to a lower standard of behavior than those hanging from the trees. Those on the ground are guilty of murder those in the trees are guilty of being black. In the U.S. a person, even the non white ones,(that is part of the 14th amendment) are innocent until proved guilty.

This is 2015.

K.

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/25/2015 5:39:23 AM   
Thegunnysez


Posts: 741
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quote:

This is 2015.


Should we alert the press?

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/25/2015 5:42:03 AM   
Sanity


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Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't know what to say...

It's stunning, I'll give it that. It's bad enough to argue that blacks should be held to a lower standard of behavior, as if they were just a hopelessly larcenous and assaultive race for whom civilized restraints are oppressive. But to see blacks themselves promoting this crap is mind-boggling.

K.





And believing it. Buying into it

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/25/2015 5:55:59 AM   
Thegunnysez


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/17/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't know what to say...

It's stunning, I'll give it that. It's bad enough to argue that blacks should be held to a lower standard of behavior, as if they were just a hopelessly larcenous and assaultive race for whom civilized restraints are oppressive. But to see blacks themselves promoting this crap is mind-boggling.

K.





And believing it. Buying into it



It's stunning, I'll give it that. It's bad enough to argue that whites should be held to a lower standard of behavior, as if they were just a hopelessly larcenous and assaultive race for whom civilized restraints are oppressive. But watching whites themselves promoting this crap is mind-boggling.

http://atlantablackstar.com/2014/02/14/10-outrageous-reasons-black-people-were-lynched-in-america/

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/25/2015 9:10:30 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

Do you see someone arguing that whites should be held to a lower standard of behavior?

The cite is pretty clear about who is not hanging from the trees. Many find fault with the behavior of the people in Ferguson. The white people on the ground were held to a lower standard of behavior than those hanging from the trees. Those on the ground are guilty of murder those in the trees are guilty of being black. In the U.S. a person, even the non white ones,(that is part of the 14th amendment) are innocent until proved guilty.

This is 2015.

K.


A crime committed 50 years ago does not justify 1000 crimes committed today.
The problem with letting Tommy play is that he takes the conversation off into La La land.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/25/2015 9:53:38 AM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

A crime committed 50 years ago does not justify 1000 crimes committed today.

4000 cimes committed 50 years does not justify 1000 crimes committed today...why would you think it would?
The Nazis stole a lot of Jew property 70 odd years ago. Do you think the Jews should just move on and not seek it's return
If a cop sticks a gun in your face and demands your wallet what do you do?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/25/2015 12:48:15 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

A crime committed 50 years ago does not justify 1000 crimes committed today.

4000 cimes committed 50 years does not justify 1000 crimes committed today...why would you think it would?
The Nazis stole a lot of Jew property 70 odd years ago. Do you think the Jews should just move on and not seek it's return
If a cop sticks a gun in your face and demands your wallet what do you do?
To your first statement...no one does except, apparently, you. You're the one who keeps bringing up the past to explain...excuse?... crimes and other violent acts committed by blacks today.

Is it your claim that blacks are reclaiming property stolen from them or the ancestors 70 years ago?

Do you havhave proof that any police officer has done such a thing or is this another one of your mystic, whimsical analogies?

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/25/2015 1:24:52 PM   
Thegunnysez


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/17/2015
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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

A crime committed 50 years ago does not justify 1000 crimes committed today.

4000 crimes committed 50 years does not justify 1000 crimes committed today...why would you think it would?
The Nazis stole a lot of Jew property 70 odd years ago. Do you think the Jews should just move on and not seek it's return
If a cop sticks a gun in your face and demands your wallet what do you do?




quote:

To your first statement...no one does except, apparently, you.


Since I have not said that I do why do you assume that I do?





quote:

You're the one who keeps bringing up the past to explain...excuse?... crimes and other violent acts committed by blacks today.


Where have I said that it was either?

quote:

Is it your claim that blacks are reclaiming property stolen from them or the ancestors 70 years ago?


1981 is not 70 years ago. What is the statute of limitation on murder?

quote:

Do you havhave proof that any police officer has done such a thing or is this another one of your mystic, whimsical analogies?


I am pretty sure it was in the DOJ report re: Ferguson.



(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/26/2015 10:41:57 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez


ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

A crime committed 50 years ago does not justify 1000 crimes committed today.

4000 crimes committed 50 years does not justify 1000 crimes committed today...why would you think it would?
The Nazis stole a lot of Jew property 70 odd years ago. Do you think the Jews should just move on and not seek it's return
If a cop sticks a gun in your face and demands your wallet what do you do?




quote:

To your first statement...no one does except, apparently, you.


Since I have not said that I do why do you assume that I do?





quote:

You're the one who keeps bringing up the past to explain...excuse?... crimes and other violent acts committed by blacks today.


Where have I said that it was either?

quote:

Is it your claim that blacks are reclaiming property stolen from them or the ancestors 70 years ago?


1981 is not 70 years ago. What is the statute of limitation on murder?

quote:

Do you havhave proof that any police officer has done such a thing or is this another one of your mystic, whimsical analogies?


I am pretty sure it was in the DOJ report re: Ferguson.

Really? Why don't you cite your source where the DOF Ferguson report states that a cop stuck his gun in someone's face and demanded their wallet?

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/26/2015 1:38:11 PM   
Thegunnysez


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/17/2015
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quote:

Really? Why don't you cite your source where the DOF Ferguson report states that a cop stuck his gun in someone's face and demanded their wallet?


I thought I just did. It is in the DOJ report on Ferguson. It is available on google. That is where I read it.
Do you need a link?

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: State of emergency declared in Ferguson MO - 8/26/2015 3:06:04 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

Really? Why don't you cite your source where the DOF Ferguson report states that a cop stuck his gun in someone's face and demanded their wallet?


I thought I just did. It is in the DOJ report on Ferguson. It is available on google. That is where I read it.
Do you need a link?


Man... now I understand... if that happened to me i would go out and shoot a few brothers too...damn cops all their fault

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 80
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