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1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 8:17:43 PM   
irishbynature


Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline 		I thought I had some savvy. I thought I knew about what was going on in the world.

Today, I learned that in 1994, over 1 million people were killed (genocide) in Rwanda over a land/property grab.I'm currently reading her book, "Left to Tell" which describes how Immaculee, lived in a 3x4 bathroom for 91 days with 7 other woman.
http://www.lefttotell.com/book/index.php?gclid=CIvR-vLll4YCFRMlFQodzW7xwg
"Immaculée shares her  story of how she survived during the Rwanda genocide in 1994 when she and seven other women huddled silently together in the cramped bathroom of a local pastor’s house for 91 days!  Immaculée shows us how to embrace the power of prayer, forge a profound and lasting relationship with God, and discover the importance of forgiveness and the meaning of truly unconditional love and understanding—through our darkest hours.

Why did I NOT know this was going on? I cannot recall many stories in the "media" other than the ususal..."Violence persists in Rwanda..."  I can only imagine how many felt after finding about the holocaust during WWII. (*Sighs*)

Does anyone in the forum recall this event or did I really have my head buried in the sand that year?

Warmly,
Irishbynature





_____________________________


What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller

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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 8:36:06 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		Yep, I remember it well and have heard Immacule speak about her ordeal and survival. I have met several survivors of the genocide in Rwanda through my work with an anti slavery group, not so much from the media. Similarly there is a genocide taking place in the Sudan and has been for many years.  Much longer than the media has given attention to. Dafur has only recently been in the headlines, yet the enslavemnt and genocide of thousands upon thousands has been going on, and the world sits with their blinders on. I.
Like the holocaust survivors, these peoples stories of survival and humanity are very humbling.

** steps off the soapbox **

                mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to irishbynature)
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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 8:42:22 PM   
irishbynature


Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

Yep, I remember it well and have heard Immacule speak about her ordeal and survival. I have met several survivors of the genocide in Rwanda through my work with an anti slavery group, not so much from the media. Similarly there is a genocide taking place in the Sudan and has been for many years.  Much longer than the media has given attention to. Dafur has only recently been in the headlines, yet the enslavemnt and genocide of thousands upon thousands has been going on, and the world sits with their blinders on. I.
Like the holocaust survivors, these peoples stories of survival and humanity are very humbling.

** steps off the soapbox **

               mbmbn


Thank you mbmbn for responding, but most of all, for your work with this apparent ongoing  situation. Now, the question is...what can I do to help? Is there a donation site? Volunteer site?

Warmly,
Irishbynature


_____________________________


What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller


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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 8:45:06 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline 		If you get a chance check out the movie "Hotel Rwanda" true story and excellent movie.

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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 8:49:37 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline 		Hello A/all,

I read quite a bit about Rwanda.  It is one of the most prolific genocides in recent years.  The movie Hotel Rwanda is a great movie about that tragedy.

Many major tragedies in other countries tend to not be considered "newsworthy" in the United States.  Sri Lanka is equally horrible to read about.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 8:56:32 PM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

If you get a chance check out the movie "Hotel Rwanda" true story and excellent movie.


Just going to mention that..... Don Cheadle and the movie did a fairly good job chronicling the story.

And I'm sorry to sound so cynical again.... but what happened with Rwanda should reinforce in everyone’s mind that the UN is a useless and unethical body of governance when it comes to mitigating the problems of third-world countries that are poor with pertinent natural resources.



JMHO


 - R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 9:09:36 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Irish, it was on the news.
Ranger Affirmative on that!

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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 9:15:03 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		Irishbynature... I sent you an email on the other side.

Sinergy... funny you should mention Sri Lanka.. the way in which I got involved with the antislavery movement was via a Sri Lankan woman I met doing Private Duty Pediatric Home Care who was being held as a slave here in the US by a Kuwaiti couple. She was basically sold in here own country,, then farmed to the Middle East and eventually landed here.

              mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)
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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 9:16:54 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

If you get a chance check out the movie "Hotel Rwanda" true story and excellent movie.


Just going to mention that..... Don Cheadle and the movie did a fairly good job chronicling the story.

And I'm sorry to sound so cynical again.... but what happened with Rwanda should reinforce in everyone’s mind that the UN is a useless and unethical body of governance when it comes to mitigating the problems of third-world countries that are poor with pertinent natural resources.



JMHO


- R


Hello A/all,

Read the book "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man."

The UN had nothing to do with what went down in Rwanda. 

I would venture to state that the problem the UN has is that the US ignores or vetos anything the UN tries to do if it does not agree with US policy.

That is just me, could be wrong.

Sinergy 

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to UtopianRanger)
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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 9:31:05 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Sinergy, the "UN" can't even find $22B that's "missing" in the oil for food scam and Cofi Anan's SON was involved in it up to his elbows.
Time for the "UN" to leave these shores.

(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 10:18:05 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline 		Here is a decent link to the UN/US response to the situation in Rwanda as it was happening:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/evil/etc/slaughter.html

                   mbmbn

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to popeye1250)
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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 11:10:16 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Wow maybemaybenot, I was just about to provide this link and here it is - you have posted it.  So interesting that Clinton and his administration refused to call this "genocide" and delayed stepping in (then again, if he had stepped in, would we as a country reacted as we react to Bush and Iraq?)  Clinton finally issued an apology, in 1998,  for not taking action quickly enough.

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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 11:24:07 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Atlantic Journal Op Ed on the subject: 
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/Rwanda/Rwanda1.htm

Wall Street Journal on Rwanda:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/bminiter/?id=110006355

Committee on International Relations, Washington DC (this is quite interesting):
http://wwwa.house.gov/international_relations/108/Pow042204.htm


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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 11:29:09 PM   
Estring


Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Wow maybemaybenot, I was just about to provide this link and here it is - you have posted it.  So interesting that Clinton and his administration refused to call this "genocide" and delayed stepping in (then again, if he had stepped in, would we as a country reacted as we react to Bush and Iraq?)  Clinton finally issued an apology, in 1998,  for not taking action quickly enough.


You already know the answer to that. Of course not, because he was a Democrat.
It is interesting that Clinton went into Kosovo because of a so-called genocide that never was. Where were all the people who are  now saying (wrongly of course) President Bush lied to justify this war?

< Message edited by Estring -- 7/16/2006 11:31:36 PM >

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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/16/2006 11:31:06 PM   
maybemaybenot


Posts: 2817
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Wow maybemaybenot, I was just about to provide this link and here it is - you have posted it.  So interesting that Clinton and his administration refused to call this "genocide" and delayed stepping in (then again, if he had stepped in, would we as a country reacted as we react to Bush and Iraq?)  Clinton finally issued an apology, in 1998,  for not taking action quickly enough.


Honestly, I don't think we would have re acted as we have with the Iraqi situation. More like we did with the Somalia debacle. We have no "vested interest" in Rwanda. < ie: oil>
The interesting thing is... as the Rwanda genocide was unfolding, the genocide in the Sudan was alive and well also. The Sudanese genocide dates back to pre 1986. No one took notice of that either, until just recently. I doubt many know that the genocide is being perpitrated on Christians < the minority> by Muslims < the majority>. I have had many tell me they thought it was tribal, since Dinka's are probably the most recognized group being enslaved and killed. While some is tribal, most is religious in nature.


Add to that the situation in Uganda where there is a genocide going on that surpasses the one happening in Dafur, Sudan. For 10+ years the military forces of Uganda has held almost 2 million people in about 200 concentration camps. Yes !! Concentration camps. I have read that 1000 children a week are being killed. There is an article coming out in August < i believe> called the Secret Genocide, which is about the  decade<s> long genocide/concentration camps in Northern Uganda.

I think the world, not just the US, has sat by much too quietly for way too long. Not only is there little action, there is little attention given it in any media form.

             mbmbn

< Message edited by maybemaybenot -- 7/16/2006 11:47:38 PM >

_____________________________

Tolerance of evil is suicide.- NYC Firefighter

When tolerance is not reciprocated, tolerance becomes surrender.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/17/2006 12:15:59 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:



Read the book "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man."

The UN had nothing to do with what went down in Rwanda. 

I would venture to state that the problem the UN has is that the US ignores or vetos anything the UN tries to do if it does not agree with US policy.


I'm very aware of John Perkins and the IMF..... La Rouche goes on and on about them all the time when he is interviewed on NPR… No secret what happened with regard to Panama / Noriega or Pinochet-Allende' / Chile.

I'm a little confused though.... are you trying to say that the US / IMF under Clinton was responsible for the exploitation of Rwanda? And that the US is in total control of the purse strings regards the UN – And that’s why there was no response? I agree with your premise regards the IMF, but why Rwanda..... Outside of a little methane and gold, they don't have much to exploit. Unless of course we make the excuse that we exploit the weak and disadvantaged just for the purpose of exploitation itself. That kinda reminds of that book Dick Morris wrote......'' Because he could '' lol!



Please clarify. Thanks.



 - R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 7/17/2006 12:19:12 AM >

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to Sinergy)
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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/17/2006 12:32:44 AM   
UtopianRanger


Posts: 3251
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maybemaybenot

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Wow maybemaybenot, I was just about to provide this link and here it is - you have posted it.  So interesting that Clinton and his administration refused to call this "genocide" and delayed stepping in (then again, if he had stepped in, would we as a country reacted as we react to Bush and Iraq?)  Clinton finally issued an apology, in 1998,  for not taking action quickly enough.


Honestly, I don't think we would have re acted as we have with the Iraqi situation. More like we did with the Somalia debacle. We have no "vested interest" in Rwanda. < ie: oil>
The interesting thing is... as the Rwanda genocide was unfolding, the genocide in the Sudan was alive and well also. The Sudanese genocide dates back to pre 1986. No one took notice of that either, until just recently. I doubt many know that the genocide is being perpitrated on Christians < the minority> by Muslims < the majority>. I have had many tell me they thought it was tribal, since Dinka's are probably the most recognized group being enslaved and killed. While some is tribal, most is religious in nature.


Add to that the situation in Uganda where there is a genocide going on that surpasses the one happening in Dafur, Sudan. For 10+ years the military forces of Uganda has held almost 2 million people in about 200 concentration camps. Yes !! Concentration camps. I have read that 1000 children a week are being killed. There is an article coming out in August < i believe> called the Secret Genocide, which is about the  decade<s> long genocide/concentration camps in Northern Uganda.

I think the world, not just the US, has sat by much too quietly for way too long. Not only is there little action, there is little attention given it in any media form.

            mbmbn





Totally agree Mbmbn....

Not many modern day dictators out there quite like Robert Mugabe. He gets virtually no attention from the mainstream press and eight out of ten people in this country have no idea who or what he is. Sad but true.


 - R


_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton


(in reply to maybemaybenot)
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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/17/2006 3:46:29 AM   
irishbynature


Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

If you get a chance check out the movie "Hotel Rwanda" true story and excellent movie.


Just going to mention that..... Don Cheadle and the movie did a fairly good job chronicling the story.

And I'm sorry to sound so cynical again.... but what happened with Rwanda should reinforce in everyone’s mind that the UN is a useless and unethical body of governance when it comes to mitigating the problems of third-world countries that are poor with pertinent natural resources.



JMHO


- R


Hello A/all,

Read the book "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man."

The UN had nothing to do with what went down in Rwanda. 

I would venture to state that the problem the UN has is that the US ignores or vetos anything the UN tries to do if it does not agree with US policy.

That is just me, could be wrong.

Sinergy 


Hi Sinergy. Thanks for the movie info. I also think you have an excellent point about US Policy and why we didn't get involved.



_____________________________


What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller


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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/17/2006 4:16:02 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		So, it's safe to assume most folks posting on this thread think we should send/have sent troops to Africa?

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

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RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? - 7/17/2006 4:25:16 AM   
irishbynature


Posts: 551
Joined: 5/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

So, it's safe to assume most folks posting on this thread think we should send/have sent troops to Africa?


Not really Level. I was more concerned about 'thinking I knew the plights of the world' and didn't not a thing about the situation in Rwanda.



_____________________________


What seems nasty, painful, or evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, for those who have the vision to recognize it as such. Henry Miller


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