RE: 1994: What I did not know and why?

RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? (Full Version)

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maybemaybenot -> RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? (7/17/2006 5:03:27 AM)
Level: I am not one to rush in with the troops. What I find deplorable is that the antics in Dafur have been well known since the 80's, The US did not impose economic sanctions until 1997. Russia and China blocked a the UN from imposing sanctions against Sudan in April of this year. France has been very vocal in their non support of economic sanctions. Canadain Oil company continued to do business in the Sudan giving oil revenues to the Islamic government that backs the genocide, until 2003, when they sold Talisman to India. About 2 million people have died since 1984 and the World can not make a united stance to put even the slightest pressure on the goverment to cease. In Rwanda 1 million lost their lives, In Uganda the numbers aren't clear, but said to be three times the rate in Dafur and 2 million in concentration camps. Add those numbers together and you are close to the Holocaust numbers. And like those days, no one wants to see a thing. If I as a measley citizen knew of the atrocities in the Sudan, back in 1986, do you think any governent was in the dark on it? Could it be, as I stated in a prev. post, the common interest of oil? irishbynature: sorry for the hijack. mbmbn

meatcleaver -> RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? (7/17/2006 5:33:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Estring You already know the answer to that. Of course not, because he was a Democrat. It is interesting that Clinton went into Kosovo because of a so-called genocide that never was. Where were all the people who are now saying (wrongly of course) President Bush lied to justify this war? The two situations are completely different. Iraq was an invasion under the pretence of a liberation and WMD was a lie used to get support. It had no support or only support under diplomatic duress or through vested interests of Iraq's neighbours. Kosovo had the support of all countries in the locality, all of which had a genuine desire to see a peaceful outcome, it wasn't an invasion and had limited aims and strategies. European troopps are still there and the EU is using prospective membership as a carrot for the former countries that made up Yugoslavia to reform, democratize and tolerate minorities. This strategy is slow and painful but working and so vindicates Clinton's policy to use US troops. Kosovo

CrappyDom -> RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? (7/17/2006 8:48:35 AM)
Rwanda made the mistake of not having oil, Somalia has oil reserves off of its coast so of course a Bush went in and typical for those idiots, they fucked it all up and left the mess for someone else to clean up. The French were major players in the mess in Rwanda and Clinton was busy dealing with what Republicans thought the greatest threat to America was, a tiny pathetic real estate scam and a blow job. Lets not forget 9 BILLION dollars in cash just vanished from Iraq, you could almost buy the entire state of Arkansas for that sort of money. As for oil for food, US companies illegally bought FAR more oil than the entire oil for food program through countries like Jordan and Turkey (which Bush I fucked over and we needed to bail out ) and that problem is a smoke screen for other Bush and Co shenanigans. Rwanda required swift and immediate action but the US has no interest in allowing anyone else to be able to act in such manner. The UN is BANNED from doing so and thus those who whine about it not acting in such a manner are typical Republican idiots who know little if anything about how they are used and manipulated by people like Rove.

Alumbrado -> RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? (7/17/2006 11:21:57 AM)
Atrocities are not miraculous events that spring up magically, without help. It is the ignorance worshippers who try to make everything about their 'side' winning, and the 'other side' being so evil that any lie or action is justified, that has always greased the skids. And with the 'social lubricant' of superstition and blind faith stoking the hatred, it is ineviable that greed and power mongering seek their own level.

irishbynature -> RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? (7/17/2006 12:12:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CrappyDom Rwanda made the mistake of not having oil, Somalia has oil reserves off of its coast so of course a Bush went in and typical for those idiots, they fucked it all up and left the mess for someone else to clean up. The French were major players in the mess in Rwanda and Clinton was busy dealing with what Republicans thought the greatest threat to America was, a tiny pathetic real estate scam and a blow job. Lets not forget 9 BILLION dollars in cash just vanished from Iraq, you could almost buy the entire state of Arkansas for that sort of money. As for oil for food, US companies illegally bought FAR more oil than the entire oil for food program through countries like Jordan and Turkey (which Bush I fucked over and we needed to bail out ) and that problem is a smoke screen for other Bush and Co shenanigans. Rwanda required swift and immediate action but the US has no interest in allowing anyone else to be able to act in such manner. The UN is BANNED from doing so and thus those who whine about it not acting in such a manner are typical Republican idiots who know little if anything about how they are used and manipulated by people like Rove. [sm=argue.gif] <---Reps/Dems and of course, nothing really gets down in DC. Good post CrappyDom. Irishbynature

Level -> RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? (7/17/2006 3:40:03 PM)
I can't see how anyone condemning what's happened in Iraq would support troops being sent in to Africa. Troops go in, it's for oil or colonialism; troops stay out, we're allowing genocide. Some people have a raging fetish for bitching about America, hell, bitching about anything, and you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

ownedgirlie -> RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? (7/17/2006 3:45:41 PM)
Good post, Level. It is my opinion that sending troops into a country is supported or condemned based on what Administration is sending them. That is most unfortunate, as it does not look at the bigger picture at hand. One side argues another, and the circle continues. Meanwhile, people starve, genocide exists, Africa kills its people over diamonds, and the problems continue. Any attempts to solve them are argued. Any attempts to let them solve themselves are argued. We send financial aid, it is argued. We withhold financial aid, it is argued. It's all about politics, money, and power. Hmm, maybe I should rule the world....

meatcleaver -> RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? (7/17/2006 3:53:05 PM)
Sending in troops without specific aims and a strategy to get out is asking for trouble. Even troops that march in on palm fronds if they over stay their welcome are soon enough considered an occupying force. That was another mistake made by Bush in the Iraq debacle. The idea you can suddenly land an occupying army in the middle of Africa which has no real infrastructure, secure it, impose a rule of law and get out all in time for tea is a nonsense. The UN has no teeth but that is not the UN's fault, it is the fault of its members. Handwringing is a lousy option but there has to be a realistic alternative.

Level -> RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? (7/17/2006 4:00:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Good post, Level. It is my opinion that sending troops into a country is supported or condemned based on what Administration is sending them. That is most unfortunate, as it does not look at the bigger picture at hand. One side argues another, and the circle continues. Meanwhile, people starve, genocide exists, Africa kills its people over diamonds, and the problems continue. Any attempts to solve them are argued. Any attempts to let them solve themselves are argued. We send financial aid, it is argued. We withhold financial aid, it is argued. It's all about politics, money, and power. Hmm, maybe I should rule the world.... *grins and waves to the good lady* If you do end up running everything, let me know; I have some good ideas to spring on you lol. An aside, owned-- ever went to the youTube dot com site? Tons of old Pink Floyd videos there, all kinds of neat stuff.

ownedgirlie -> RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? (7/17/2006 4:04:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie Good post, Level. It is my opinion that sending troops into a country is supported or condemned based on what Administration is sending them. That is most unfortunate, as it does not look at the bigger picture at hand. One side argues another, and the circle continues. Meanwhile, people starve, genocide exists, Africa kills its people over diamonds, and the problems continue. Any attempts to solve them are argued. Any attempts to let them solve themselves are argued. We send financial aid, it is argued. We withhold financial aid, it is argued. It's all about politics, money, and power. Hmm, maybe I should rule the world.... *grins and waves to the good lady* If you do end up running everything, let me know; I have some good ideas to spring on you lol. An aside, owned-- ever went to the youTube dot com site? Tons of old Pink Floyd videos there, all kinds of neat stuff. OMG I just discovered it last weekend!!! I'm hooked!!! Between all the Floyd and Niel Young, I'm in heaven!!

Level -> RE: 1994: What I did not know and why? (7/17/2006 4:12:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie OMG I just discovered it last weekend!!! I'm hooked!!! Between all the Floyd and Niel Young, I'm in heaven!! Me too hehheh. I just watched an interview Gene Simmons did on the Mike Douglas show in 1974, and some interviews with Floyd during the sessions for "Brain Damage", watching Gilmour try to get the solo right. Great stuff.

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