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RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 3:46:24 AM   
KenDckey


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Gent. I have mixed feelings on healthcare.

I believe EVERONE should have healthcare.
I do not believe the government has a right to tell us how to spend money out of our paycheck and I believe he only reason that SCOTUS kept it in force is because they decided it was a tax law, not a healthcare mandate per se.

I additionally have problems with the way it was passed - pass now read later.

I have problems with being told all along it was not a tax law and if you liked your old plan you could keep it

I have a problem with men being charged for abortions overwhich they have no say (this came out during congressional hearings)

I have problems with politicians and political appointee's making medical decisions unless they are medical doctors. I am in a fight now where the National Park Service medics responded at the request of a park ranger and could not and should not have been called because now I am liable for the unsolicited service that our Medicare says they won't cover and the US Military's insurance says they won't cover and I am being sued for cost recovery. A helo was the appropriate call since the spine was shattered. BTW, the Park Service called in people from a different state and not a local service.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 3:59:58 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Gent. I have mixed feelings on healthcare.

I believe EVERONE should have healthcare.
I do not believe the government has a right to tell us how to spend money out of our paycheck and I believe he only reason that SCOTUS kept it in force is because they decided it was a tax law, not a healthcare mandate per se.

I additionally have problems with the way it was passed - pass now read later.

I have problems with being told all along it was not a tax law and if you liked your old plan you could keep it

I have a problem with men being charged for abortions overwhich they have no say (this came out during congressional hearings)

I have problems with politicians and political appointee's making medical decisions unless they are medical doctors. I am in a fight now where the National Park Service medics responded at the request of a park ranger and could not and should not have been called because now I am liable for the unsolicited service that our Medicare says they won't cover and the US Military's insurance says they won't cover and I am being sued for cost recovery. A helo was the appropriate call since the spine was shattered. BTW, the Park Service called in people from a different state and not a local service.



Well, the NHS isn't perfect Ken, but upon googling "American views of the NHS" these were the first three links that came up:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/an-american-uses-britain-nhs-2015-1?r=US&IR=T

https://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/jason-hickel/take-it-from-american-britain's-nhs-is-as-good-as-it-gets

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jennifer-gunter/nhs-emergency-room-_b_5677618.html

One point mentioned by Americans relating to the US system upon which I agree as follows:

When picking up an itemised bill from a hospital in New Orleans, it looked bizarre. Just seemed like a bunch of random letters and numbers typed out on 4 pages.

I also had to go up to this finance department to talk about the bill. There were tens of these people churning out these bills in this big department. I thought, Christ, why do they need so many people in a finance department to manage the organisation's bills and finances.

It was also noticeable that the doctors and nurses really weren't in a rush. Seemed to take hours to walk up and down a corridor for a bandage and there didn't appear to be anyone else in this place!

The whole place stank of inefficiency, bureaucracy and bloated numbers of employees.

But of course when I received the bill I realised what it was all about: profit! The patient has to pay for all of this paper and bloated numbers of staff and the rest of it!

Seemed like a scam to me.










_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 4:25:36 AM   
KenDckey


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Oh I agree with your assesment that much of it is a scam. They keep adding layers to healthcare, then raise their wage periodically so doctors and hospitals can make more.

The only true way to resolve the situation is to nationalize the entire system. Pricing, levels of care, etc. If a Dr doesn't want to be part of the system, revoke his license to practice. Make first aid even a crime because they aren't authorized to provide care by the government. There are cases where this has been done. Most notable in my mind is the case (I forgot the people's name) where a sub medic had to perform surgery to save one of the sailors while on combat patrol. The military doctors wanted to send him to courts martial for practicing medicine without a license. Fortunately the command wouldn't do it.

I personally don't see healthcare as an entitlement. There was healthcare during the time that the Consitution was written. They didn't put it in there for whatever reason. So now SCOTUS had to justify it for congress by calling it a tax program. Me thinks some people are really screwed up because tax programs are run by accountants not healthcare professionals.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 4:43:09 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Oh I agree with your assesment that much of it is a scam. They keep adding layers to healthcare, then raise their wage periodically so doctors and hospitals can make more.

The only true way to resolve the situation is to nationalize the entire system. Pricing, levels of care, etc. If a Dr doesn't want to be part of the system, revoke his license to practice. Make first aid even a crime because they aren't authorized to provide care by the government. There are cases where this has been done. Most notable in my mind is the case (I forgot the people's name) where a sub medic had to perform surgery to save one of the sailors while on combat patrol. The military doctors wanted to send him to courts martial for practicing medicine without a license. Fortunately the command wouldn't do it.

I personally don't see healthcare as an entitlement. There was healthcare during the time that the Consitution was written. They didn't put it in there for whatever reason. So now SCOTUS had to justify it for congress by calling it a tax program. Me thinks some people are really screwed up because tax programs are run by accountants not healthcare professionals.



Well, if a Briton pays $5,000 US dollars less than an American, annually, for health care; then does it really matter that certain people are getting treatment against your principles? Ultimately, you're lining someone's pockets and paying for other people's ailments to a far greater tune that we are in Britain.

Add in that the British system consistently ranks as providing a much better service on just about every measure, then it appears that ideology alone is getting in the way of an improved system.

In England, the majority of people always vote for the Conservative Party, so we too like business to do things.

But, perhaps we are more pragmatic and less ideological in the sense that if we can get a good service at low cost, then who or what is delivering it is of limited importance.

Seems to me the American system is lining the pockets of private interests at the expense of the average American. An ideological view point that business must do everything seems to defeat the object.

That extra $5,000 you're each paying is going in someone else's pocket!


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 5:19:57 AM   
KenDckey


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I personally live with national health care so to s peak. My government demanded by law that I sign up for Medicare at 65. No options unlike many out there. I was automatically signed up before I was going to by the government. Saved me a step. Now I have 2 100% government controlled insurances. At lease except for an ocassional issue I am 100% covered. Some Dr's won't see me because the govt won't pay enough. Some won't perform services needed for the same reason. When I call about questions that I have, I generally ask 2 questions. What is your job description and what are your medical credentials. I rarely like the second answer (they usually didn't go to medical school).

All that being beside the point, I still object to Obamacare. Nationalizing the entire health care system might be a viable option, and not necessarily a bad one, it must be done right without interference from politicians and political decisions and decisions made based upon sound medical practices and necessity as seen in the eyes of a doctor not the eyes of some non-medical person.

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 5:42:06 AM   
Nthrall


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I have a medical condition that was beginning to concern me. I phoned my health centre last Monday and got an appointment the same day. My own doctor was away, so I saw his locum who gave advice and a prescription for free medicine. He also arranged an appointment to see a nurse. I saw the nurse on Friday (I chose the day). She did some tests and offered more, so I'll go back to see another nurse next week. Meanwhile my doctor rang to ask me to pop in to discuss my concerns. Also last week, a national screening service sent me an unsolicited bowel testing kit, due to my age. I have not had to pay for any of this. It is the UK's wonderful, civilised, imperfect National Health Service: we all pay and we all share. I am so sorry for you who live in U.S.A. where any stranger may pull out a gun and end your life at any time, and where your doctors take your wallets before taking your pulse.

Incidentally, I donated a kidney to my brother a couple of years ago. Guess how much that cost us?* Have a nice day (don't get shot or ill).

*£0

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 6:09:35 AM   
KenDckey


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cool glad to hear it :D

(in reply to Nthrall)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 6:39:06 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I personally live with national health care so to s peak. My government demanded by law that I sign up for Medicare at 65. No options unlike many out there. I was automatically signed up before I was going to by the government. Saved me a step. Now I have 2 100% government controlled insurances. At lease except for an ocassional issue I am 100% covered. Some Dr's won't see me because the govt won't pay enough. Some won't perform services needed for the same reason. When I call about questions that I have, I generally ask 2 questions. What is your job description and what are your medical credentials. I rarely like the second answer (they usually didn't go to medical school).

All that being beside the point, I still object to Obamacare. Nationalizing the entire health care system might be a viable option, and not necessarily a bad one, it must be done right without interference from politicians and political decisions and decisions made based upon sound medical practices and necessity as seen in the eyes of a doctor not the eyes of some non-medical person.




Ken,

The National Health Service is not ran by the government. Have a look at this link for the experiences of a young American lady who points out that health care in England is delivered according to the wishes of the individual and the doctor. It is simply financed by all of us, which is entirely different to being ran by the government.

https://potentialandexpectations.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/this-americans-experience-of-britains-healthcare-system/


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 7:29:59 AM   
MercTech


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How to fix Obamacare - Scrap it!

A typical example of a smoke and mirrors law that increases the burden on the average citizen. The whole concept of a sinecure for health insurance companies having anything to do with availability and affordability of health care is ludicrous.
The way the policies are written and the prohibitive charges for health insurance is impoverishing. How many families can really afford another house payment every month? And the fine print in policies that you are not allowed to see until after you have the policy. Things like "in network care only in your designated area of residency". Yep, they don't have to pay a cent on some policies if you have an ER visit while away from home.

1> Securities and exchange legislation to break the monopolistic tendency of major health insurance companies owning the major health care providers. Break the cycle of upward spiraling health care charges that are inflated just because they can and it shows a positive quarterly profit.

2> Put the public health service back in charge of public health. They raped the PHS in 1968 declaring a "war on poverty" and put bureaucrats in the HEW in charge. Quit repeating things that don't work. i.e. leaving clueless bureaucrats in charge of something that requires technical knowledge.

Health insurance companies simply want to charge as much as they can for as little payout as they can manage. Yep, our health care system is not in the hands of greedy little accountants that want to squeeze every penny until it screams. Tell me again how this is a good thing?

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 8:14:09 AM   
KenDckey


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LOL Merc Pass my fixes and SCOTUS will take care of it for us LO

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 11:47:48 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
On number 6 equal pay for equal work. Isn't that what unions and politicians keep saying?


No, Unions don't say that. Please. Go ask a lineworker that has one year under his belt if he's making the same money as another lineworker, on the same line, working at the same rate or slower, but has 20 years under his belt. It's not equal pay for equal work. It's more akin to equal pay at hiring, and equal step raises as you continue to not get fired.

Politicians do say equal pay for equal work. And, if the worker's production and contribution to the company are equal, then the pay should be equal. If you have a backstabbing dick and a nice woman with the same productivity, I'd support her getting paid more since she brings more benefit to the company.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 12:52:10 PM   
KenDckey


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DS You are generally correct, but my union (which I hated having to be in one) said it all the time. I was in a municipal union. Working conditions were so bad that even management had a union.

I also agree on productivity. I have noticed that industry generally, unlike the military, doesn't train people to move up or to even take responsibility. I have seen instances where they have promoted people to upper levels solely for the purpose of fireing them during probation and after the position was filled. This was especially true for those that went out and got an education.

I was white collar, non supervisory, but was given supervisory jobs which supervisors which couldn't do the job told me not to do. I had a good manager that recognized I would make a decision, right or wrong and would own it. The majority of the supervisors wouldn't make a decision and drove the manager crazy.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/15/2015 1:05:49 PM   
defiantbadgirl


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I'd like to see the employer mandate thrown out. The problem with health insurance through an employer is, the deductibles aren't subsidized based on income like they are on the exchange. A person making only $10/hr can have a $5,000 deductible through their employer. If they were eligible for a subsidized policy on the exchange, their deductible might only be $300. Unfortunately, being offered insurance through an employer makes that $10/hr worker ineligible for the subsidies that would lower the deductible to an affordable level. Also, being in a "global economy" puts American workers in competition with workers in other countries that have single-payer health care that's not attached to employment.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


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(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/16/2015 11:28:59 AM   
MrRodgers


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Still you kinkroids miss the whole point. Health care in the US like all industries is...not about health care. It is about money. First, there must be a maximized profit as possible hence 700-800,000 medical bankruptcies a year, some even with those who are working and do have insurance.

So, for the providers, the drug companies, the insurance companies, it's all about...making a profit and not just a profit but as much profit as possible. Hence the political/economy of private health care, unlike bank financial health care, crop profit health care and of course ,the great free-market [sic] favorite...overseas, investor financial health care.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/16/2015 11:49:32 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Health care in the US like all industries is...not about health care. It is about money.

In many ways, I think you're right. But then would you support something radical like outlawing health insurance?

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/16/2015 1:48:58 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Health care in the US like all industries is...not about health care. It is about money.

In many ways, I think you're right. But then would you support something radical like outlawing health insurance?

Wouldn't be a profit.

The whole idea behind a mandate and the profit-driven subsidies, is to require the healthy uninsured to purchase a service they otherwise wouldn't and if too poor, get govt. to help me provide that profit.

Ultimately in our progressive capitalist fascism, is for it be a felony...not to work for or provide a profit. It's essentially that way now, it just isn't directly codified into law.

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 8/16/2015 1:53:01 PM >

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/16/2015 4:11:12 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
DS You are generally correct, but my union (which I hated having to be in one) said it all the time. I was in a municipal union. Working conditions were so bad that even management had a union.
I also agree on productivity. I have noticed that industry generally, unlike the military, doesn't train people to move up or to even take responsibility. I have seen instances where they have promoted people to upper levels solely for the purpose of fireing them during probation and after the position was filled. This was especially true for those that went out and got an education.
I was white collar, non supervisory, but was given supervisory jobs which supervisors which couldn't do the job told me not to do. I had a good manager that recognized I would make a decision, right or wrong and would own it. The majority of the supervisors wouldn't make a decision and drove the manager crazy.


Does everyone in your union get paid the same amount, regardless of tenure?

Most unions oppose "merit" bonuses as they don't pertain to every member. Unions do more to protect their least productive members than they do helping everyone equally.



_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/16/2015 4:43:09 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Health care in the US like all industries is...not about health care. It is about money.

In many ways, I think you're right. But then would you support something radical like outlawing health insurance?

Wouldn't be a profit.

The whole idea behind a mandate and the profit-driven subsidies, is to require the healthy uninsured to purchase a service they otherwise wouldn't and if too poor, get govt. to help me provide that profit.

Ultimately in our progressive capitalist fascism, is for it be a felony...not to work for or provide a profit. It's essentially that way now, it just isn't directly codified into law.

Okay, but that doesn't really answer my question. Your explaining why corporations wouldn't support it. I think that goes without saying. My question is wether or not you would support it?

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/17/2015 2:32:07 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
sounds like Joe is fixing to have a seizure or something. Breathe Joe....Breathe

All he needs is $6000 and a little Obamacare and he'll be fine.


I get better healthcare through Mass Health then veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan! An I know this, because I was able to get immediate treatment for my Depression; yet some of the soldiers I was helping took months in the VA. I was stunned by the level of bullshit our service folks had to navigate through.

But I'll take the six grand if your still offering it. :)



They go through that bullshit because it's a single payer system run by the government. So go ahead and enjoy that good insurance while you still have it because if some people get their way everyone in the country will be enjoying the same shitty service that our boys now get from the va.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to joether)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Obamacare Fix Suggestions - 8/17/2015 3:19:14 AM   
joether


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Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Joe

My thoughts, right, wrong or otherwise are my thoughts. I have a right to them. You do not have the right to stop them

You are not required to like them
You are not required to agree with them
You are allowed to try to convince me that I am wrong
You are not allowed to insult me or anyone else because they don't agree with you. Argue yes, Insult no.
You are not required to read my posts.
You are not required to comment on my posts.
Thank you for your thoughts. I am not impressed.


I'm pointing out that you want to solve a perceived set of problems. Not the actual problems. To solve or fix the actual problems would imply your understanding of the actual law and how it operates. Its like fixing a bridge. Most people will hear the bridge creak and groan under the strain of weight. But it would take a team of civil engineers to study not just the structure itself, but everything around it. To either make repairs or scrap the whole thing and make a new bridge.

You don't like that unlike you, I took the time to understand the law. I wanted to understand the law because it was very controversial at the time of its passage. I knew that the conservative misinformation machines would generate all sorts of bogus information. That people like you, who would not be aware that the information your getting is not only inaccurate but pushed by a political agenda that doesn't care if you are healthy or not. Several times you have made posts about the ACA. In each post I have given you the actual information and how the law operates within the confines of your post.

I can speak on making improvements to the ACA. Because I read the ACA. And I studied and observed over time what parts have worked well and which could use retooling. I'm reluctant from explaining those concepts on here. Mostly due to the fact I would have to explain....at length....the law itself and how it operates. Because none of you performed your civil duty and paid attention to what the government was doing. And then make a suggestion to the improvement or change. The problem then becomes a lack of experience. I'm making the suggestion due to observation and watching how the law's requirements played out in 'the real world'.

Your annoyed by me, because I'm many levels more informed on the subject that you are! That your pride get in your way to actually making forward progress. Not just on the ACA but many other topics.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 40
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