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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: joether

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ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey
sounds like Joe is fixing to have a seizure or something. Breathe Joe....Breathe

All he needs is $6000 and a little Obamacare and he'll be fine.

I get better healthcare through Mass Health then veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan! An I know this, because I was able to get immediate treatment for my Depression; yet some of the soldiers I was helping took months in the VA. I was stunned by the level of bullshit our service folks had to navigate through.

But I'll take the six grand if your still offering it. :)

They go through that bullshit because it's a single payer system run by the government. So go ahead and enjoy that good insurance while you still have it because if some people get their way everyone in the country will be enjoying the same shitty service that our boys now get from the va.

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ORIGINAL: joether

I'm all for a better system for our veterans. If its a single payer system, then I would like it to operate in favor of our veterans not against them. If we have to redirect some defense dollars to it, so be it!

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ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
I'd like to see the employer mandate thrown out. The problem with health insurance through an employer is, the deductibles aren't subsidized based on income like they are on the exchange. A person making only $10/hr can have a $5,000 deductible through their employer. If they were eligible for a subsidized policy on the exchange, their deductible might only be $300. Unfortunately, being offered insurance through an employer makes that $10/hr worker ineligible for the subsidies that would lower the deductible to an affordable level. Also, being in a "global economy" puts American workers in competition with workers in other countries that have single-payer health care that's not attached to employment.

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

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ORIGINAL: joether
I'm all for a better system for our veterans. If its a single payer system, then I would like it to operate in favor of our veterans not against them. If we have to redirect some defense dollars to it, so be it!

It's a single payer system where the govt pays, The only exception that I know of is the scripts are paid in part by the vet and if the vet is on medicare that has to pay first.

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ORIGINAL: joether

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

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ORIGINAL: joether
I'm all for a better system for our veterans. If its a single payer system, then I would like it to operate in favor of our veterans not against them. If we have to redirect some defense dollars to it, so be it!

It's a single payer system where the govt pays, The only exception that I know of is the scripts are paid in part by the vet and if the vet is on medicare that has to pay first.

The current system of the VA, is fucked up! Trying to explain how its suppose to operate and how it does operate are two different things. The first is a fantasy the other is a metaphorical train wreck in slow motion. The entire economic 'engine' of policy has to be reworked from the basics to the complex. An that will require a heavy load of very intelligent and educated people, free from lobbyists and 'political agenda' groups to craft such a system.

One of the problems with the VA system, is the folks that feel a veteran's live is worth shit. There are many medical doctors that started in the VA hospitals before moving into private practices or regional civilian hospitals. The reason is that veterans typically didn't have money to handle a lawsuit against the doctor for giving bad care. Or suing the hospital due to problems.

How much is a veteran's health worth to the nation?

Try to answer that question first. Realistically.....

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ORIGINAL: joether

You foolishly equate 'single payer system' to 'bad'. Even though there are many variations. Both here and abroad. A metaphor would be all the 'flat tax schemes' the GOP/TP have tried to use over the last twenty years. None of them really work out because they were never 'fleshed' out to actually operate in the real world. That, and the people pushing the tax schemes made unrealistic limits and terms it has to operate under. Several nations have a single payer system. They are not perfect systems; but then again, either is the one in the USA (pre and post ACA).

Congress really did not pay much attention to the system, because it was often a low priority. Republicans gave the concept even less thought than the Democrats. But boy, Republicans are always happy to get us into wars and thus, give more patients to the VA to fix! The crap-tastoc level of medical care for our veterans has been taking place since the Washington administration. And only recently due to public unrest and demands has Congress made a more serious examination into the problems.

To make any sort of economic system work that involves healthcare will take a considerable amount of effort. Massachusetts was the test platform to see if such a system could operate. It was the corporations in the state that advocated the changes. They made some tough challenges to their bottom line; but seem to have come out pretty well years later. As a result 98% of US Citizens whom have lived in the commonwealth for six months have health insurance. And this policy has been around for eight years now.

I'm all for a better system for our veterans. If its a single payer system, then I would like it to operate in favor of our veterans not against them. If we have to redirect some defense dollars to it, so be it!

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ORIGINAL: joether

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi
They go through that bullshit because it's a single payer system run by the government. So go ahead and enjoy that good insurance while you still have it because if some people get their way everyone in the country will be enjoying the same shitty service that our boys now get from the va.

You foolishly equate 'single payer system' to 'bad'. Even though there are many variations. Both here and abroad. A metaphor would be all the 'flat tax schemes' the GOP/TP have tried to use over the last twenty years. None of them really work out because they were never 'fleshed' out to actually operate in the real world. That, and the people pushing the tax schemes made unrealistic limits and terms it has to operate under. Several nations have a single payer system. They are not perfect systems; but then again, either is the one in the USA (pre and post ACA).
Congress really did not pay much attention to the system, because it was often a low priority. Republicans gave the concept even less thought than the Democrats. But boy, Republicans are always happy to get us into wars and thus, give more patients to the VA to fix! The crap-tastoc level of medical care for our veterans has been taking place since the Washington administration. And only recently due to public unrest and demands has Congress made a more serious examination into the problems.
To make any sort of economic system work that involves healthcare will take a considerable amount of effort. Massachusetts was the test platform to see if such a system could operate. It was the corporations in the state that advocated the changes. They made some tough challenges to their bottom line; but seem to have come out pretty well years later. As a result 98% of US Citizens whom have lived in the commonwealth for six months have health insurance. And this policy has been around for eight years now.
I'm all for a better system for our veterans. If its a single payer system, then I would like it to operate in favor of our veterans not against them. If we have to redirect some defense dollars to it, so be it!

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ORIGINAL: joether
The current system of the VA, is fucked up!

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

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ORIGINAL: joether

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

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ORIGINAL: joether
I'm all for a better system for our veterans. If its a single payer system, then I would like it to operate in favor of our veterans not against them. If we have to redirect some defense dollars to it, so be it!

It's a single payer system where the govt pays, The only exception that I know of is the scripts are paid in part by the vet and if the vet is on medicare that has to pay first.

The current system of the VA, is fucked up! Trying to explain how its suppose to operate and how it does operate are two different things. The first is a fantasy the other is a metaphorical train wreck in slow motion. The entire economic 'engine' of policy has to be reworked from the basics to the complex. An that will require a heavy load of very intelligent and educated people, free from lobbyists and 'political agenda' groups to craft such a system.

One of the problems with the VA system, is the folks that feel a veteran's live is worth shit. There are many medical doctors that started in the VA hospitals before moving into private practices or regional civilian hospitals. The reason is that veterans typically didn't have money to handle a lawsuit against the doctor for giving bad care. Or suing the hospital due to problems.

How much is a veteran's health worth to the nation?

Try to answer that question first. Realistically.....

In my experience, a vet is worth less than a cheap dog that you got for free.

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ORIGINAL: thishereboi

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ORIGINAL: joether

You foolishly equate 'single payer system' to 'bad'. Even though there are many variations. Both here and abroad. A metaphor would be all the 'flat tax schemes' the GOP/TP have tried to use over the last twenty years. None of them really work out because they were never 'fleshed' out to actually operate in the real world. That, and the people pushing the tax schemes made unrealistic limits and terms it has to operate under. Several nations have a single payer system. They are not perfect systems; but then again, either is the one in the USA (pre and post ACA).

Congress really did not pay much attention to the system, because it was often a low priority. Republicans gave the concept even less thought than the Democrats. But boy, Republicans are always happy to get us into wars and thus, give more patients to the VA to fix! The crap-tastoc level of medical care for our veterans has been taking place since the Washington administration. And only recently due to public unrest and demands has Congress made a more serious examination into the problems.

To make any sort of economic system work that involves healthcare will take a considerable amount of effort. Massachusetts was the test platform to see if such a system could operate. It was the corporations in the state that advocated the changes. They made some tough challenges to their bottom line; but seem to have come out pretty well years later. As a result 98% of US Citizens whom have lived in the commonwealth for six months have health insurance. And this policy has been around for eight years now.

I'm all for a better system for our veterans. If its a single payer system, then I would like it to operate in favor of our veterans not against them. If we have to redirect some defense dollars to it, so be it!

When I think of single payer, I think of the VA and CMS and the wonderful job our government does of running them. So yes I probably do see them in a negitive light. Not sure why you think it's foolish but since you seem to have a need to insult people while talking to them I'll just chalk it up to you being you. But I do agree that the VA needs a better system, I just don't see it happening any time soon.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
You're still an idiot.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
You continue to demonstrate your lack of comprehension. You knock people for commenting on Obamacare without understanding, but you keep commenting here without understanding wtf you're commenting on.

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Hey Joe. Do you think that people are smart enough to decide what health coverage they need or must congress decide it for them?

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ORIGINAL: joether

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
You're still an idiot.

Want to see the idiot so badly, check your mirror!
The problem with the VA is not just one problem. Its many hundreds of problems. And they are all inter-linked. Each one is just as important as the one to either side, behind and in front of it. That you think we only have to tweak things shows your level of naivety. The 'single payer' system they have has been in play for a while now. Long before even President Obama came to power. Trying to blame it as a 'Democratic vehicle' really shows your lack of history on the concept. The VA grew out of a need to 'look' like the government was doing something good with our veterans. Numerous publicans, stories, and even one movie (Article 99) showed the public that the VA's system was faulty. But the public really didn't care. The VA's troubles ranked so little to most Americans over the past twenty years.
Your trying to push 'all the VA's problems' onto President Obama. There really is only so much he can do. And it seems he is doing that. What it will take is for Americans to vote people that will fix this issue. Which is a tough order to accomplish! As things go, the system will most likely be a single payer operation or a close hybrid to it and something else.
Maybe the United States invents a new economic model that will have people studying it next to socialism, communism, and capitalism for years to come. It'll have its problems, I'm sure. But maybe it works better than all the current options open to us right now.

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ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
You continue to demonstrate your lack of comprehension. You knock people for commenting on Obamacare without understanding, but you keep commenting here without understanding wtf you're commenting on.

I understand the system better than you do. I understand that the current model is a band-aid, stuck on top of another band-aid that is stock on a pile more. What has to happen is to ripe the bandages off, perform ACTUAL surgery and give it a proper stitch-up. We are hampered by several factors:
1 ) This is a political football
2 ) Citizens not aware of the complexities at work
3 ) The VA ranks now on politician's minds
4 ) The economic model is thirty years over due for a complete over haul
That you hate the idea of a 'single payer' system, but yet can not make a suggestion on how to fix the problems. Yeah, your spending your time criticizing and bashing me, and not once, establishing a worth while argument that shows you have put some actual thought into the situation. The reason for that, is because the thought process is to taxing. You need things simple and small. Unfortunately this problem, the VA's struggles, are like a 'small potatos' example of healthcare in the nation. In that understanding the problems and how to fix the, is a stepping stone to the problems the nation faces with healthcare on a nation's stage.
Your afraid to take a chance. Unfortunately, we have to take some chances. We will make improves and have setbacks. That's the nature of business and government. The two are related in that one understanding. The difference is, its often easier for the business to shift gears and try something news.....

1. Mean I think we only have to tweak things
2. That I'm blaming it as a "Democratic vehicle', or
3. That I'm pushing the VA's problems onto President Obama

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ORIGINAL: joether

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Hey Joe. Do you think that people are smart enough to decide what health coverage they need or must congress decide it for them?

Devil's Advocate....

If all people were smart enough to decide on things, would we need laws? Would we have 'fail blog' on youtube.com? Would the Darwin Awards even exist?

I'm routinely correcting people's understanding of the ACA on here (like you), because they are not smart enough to realize they should sit down with the law and determine for themselves what is within the body of law and what is not.

That people make foolish and dumb mistakes in the business world and go bankrupt.

People wish to 'save' on their health insurance until the moment they need it to pay more than they can shell out. Often that moment takes place at the worst possible time. They go without (paying the fine in the ACA), get into a car accident that leaves them in critical shape. Who pays for the bills to get that individual fully (or at least, best effect) to recovery?

....Society....

The same society that created the healthcare law in the first place.