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RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 7:36:56 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Who said I don't want them to come here? Since I want immigration policies to improve, to legally allow more into the country, and to make it easier and faster for foreigners to legally immigrate, how does that in any way, shape, or form, translate into me not wanting people to want to immigrate?
My desire for illegal immigration to drop in no way impacts my desire for legal immigration to expand.

the way to have illegal immigration drop is to first and foremost improve immigration policies and ways that immigrants can legally immigrate..


That's what I support (note the part of my post you quoted that I've highlighted).


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 12:45:19 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Who said I don't want them to come here? Since I want immigration policies to improve, to legally allow more into the country, and to make it easier and faster for foreigners to legally immigrate, how does that in any way, shape, or form, translate into me not wanting people to want to immigrate?
My desire for illegal immigration to drop in no way impacts my desire for legal immigration to expand.

the way to have illegal immigration drop is to first and foremost improve immigration policies and ways that immigrants can legally immigrate..


That's what I support (note the part of my post you quoted that I've highlighted).


But nobody wants to appropriate the funds and create the bureaucratic regime to handle the deluge.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 4:08:31 PM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

Actually, the GOP screams about any part of the Constitution being changed outside of the only Constitutional way to change the Constitution.

Is it only the GOP that feels this way, is this meant to imply that the other party feels the opposite?


If that's what you want to think, go for it.


It was a question. If your answer is sincere then I would be free to post all sorts of things about you because you said it was ok...I don't think that is what you really meant to convey.





quote:

The comment I responded to was attempting to point out irony or hypocrisy in the GOP because they rail about the Constitution being changed, yet are looking at an amendment to change the Constitution.





I find the same level of hypocrisy in both parties.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 4:35:51 PM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:


Yeah, no. He wasn't granted birthright citizenship not because he was 49% Native American, or because he wasn't born in the US. He was born with allegiance to his tribe first and foremost.


Until 1924 native Americans who were more than 49% native American were not allowed to be U.S. citizens.
The plaintiff sought U.S. citizenship and renounced his tribal association. The court ruled that he was not eligible for several reasons not just one.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/112/94/case.html

quote:

But Indians not taxed are still excluded from the count for the reason that they are not citizens.






quote:

Illegal immigrants still owe allegiance to their country of citizenship. Their kids, therefore, owe their allegiance to the same


By the very act of leaving their country of origin they have expressly changed allegiances. Previously you mentioned diplomats. Their children born in the U.S. would not be citizens because their parents have return tickets and no intention of staying here.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 4:49:11 PM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:


If their very presence here is a crime rewarding them with citizenship does seem a bit irrational.


What seems to be irrational is your passion against those who commit this particular misdemeanor. While remaining silent about the felony that those who hire them commit.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 4:53:42 PM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:


Who said I don't want them to come here? Since I want immigration policies to improve, to legally allow more into the country, and to make it easier and faster for foreigners to legally immigrate, how does that in any way, shape, or form, translate into me not wanting people to want to immigrate?


Specifically how many Mexicans would you allow to immigrate annually?

< Message edited by Thegunnysez -- 8/23/2015 4:54:27 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 5:00:38 PM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


A lot of Mexicans are of Spanish descent


Which ones?

quote:

(That means theyre Europeans, too)

If the invading hordes of illegals want this land, lets see them come up with enough beads and fire water to buy it fair and square, maybe have a war to settle it once and for all




The last time there was a war between the native Americans and the U.S. Army the Army's only successes came when they were fighting the women and children. When they fought the men they usually got their clock cleaned.

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 5:01:59 PM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think today this needs to be just the opposite... I would limit immigration to those with needed skills... those with fiscally responsible US citizen relatives or sponsors and no one else.

Butch


Which needed skills would those be?

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 5:05:28 PM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I think the fastest way...is to remove the reason they are coming. All it would take would be strict penalties for hiring illegals. Say 20 years with no parole. After a few examples employers would not hire illegals and without jobs there would be no reason to come here... No need for expensive walls and immigration agents. Then with the remove of birthrights and requirements for needed skills for legal immigrants our troubles will be over. Our young people will again have decent entry level jobs and the welfare burden will be reduced... bah Humbug... yes eliminate the excess illegal population.

Butch




The current penalties are much stiffer why would you want to lower them? It has already been discussed...somewhere between 5 and 10 thousand per worker and five years per worker.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 5:13:04 PM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:


Interestingly enough, if a child is born outside the US, when one or both parents is a US Citizen, the child is usually considered a US Citizen, not a citizen of the country of birth.


Canada,Brazil, Mexico, Argentina and many others would disagree with you.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 5:15:14 PM   
Thegunnysez


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quote:

Minor children of parents who were not citizens at the time of the child's birth can gain citizenship when the parents gain citizenship. The parents wouldn't be "renouncing" the child's citizenship, because citizenship hasn't been determined yet.


The child becomes a citizen at birth. When the child reaches the age of majority and can afford to sponsor the parents they can be brought in. Then of course there is the question of why the parents would want to renounce the child's U.S. citizenship?

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 6:22:12 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

Actually, the GOP screams about any part of the Constitution being changed outside of the only Constitutional way to change the Constitution.

Is it only the GOP that feels this way, is this meant to imply that the other party feels the opposite?

If that's what you want to think, go for it.

It was a question. If your answer is sincere then I would be free to post all sorts of things about you because you said it was ok...I don't think that is what you really meant to convey.
quote:

The comment I responded to was attempting to point out irony or hypocrisy in the GOP because they rail about the Constitution being changed, yet are looking at an amendment to change the Constitution.

I find the same level of hypocrisy in both parties.


I agree it's both parties, yet, my statement was a direct response to an accusation against the GOP. I don't need to address what the Democrats do or don't do.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 6:25:22 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		]ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

Yeah, no. He wasn't granted birthright citizenship not because he was 49% Native American, or because he wasn't born in the US. He was born with allegiance to his tribe first and foremost.

Until 1924 native Americans who were more than 49% native American were not allowed to be U.S. citizens.
The plaintiff sought U.S. citizenship and renounced his tribal association. The court ruled that he was not eligible for several reasons not just one.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/112/94/case.html
quote:

But Indians not taxed are still excluded from the count for the reason that they are not citizens.


Or, it's continued remuneration for fucking them so many years ago.

quote:

quote:

Illegal immigrants still owe allegiance to their country of citizenship. Their kids, therefore, owe their allegiance to the same

By the very act of leaving their country of origin they have expressly changed allegiances. Previously you mentioned diplomats. Their children born in the U.S. would not be citizens because their parents have return tickets and no intention of staying here.


The 14th Amendment doesn't bring up anything about whether the parents are only here for a visit or not. Where do you come up with that idea?

You still can't understand the intent of the 14th Amendment, even when it's quoted by the guy that wrote that section. Wait. I'm wrong. I'm sure you understand. You just won't agree.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 6:26:42 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

Who said I don't want them to come here? Since I want immigration policies to improve, to legally allow more into the country, and to make it easier and faster for foreigners to legally immigrate, how does that in any way, shape, or form, translate into me not wanting people to want to immigrate?

Specifically how many Mexicans would you allow to immigrate annually?


Specifically? No idea. I don't know what it's capped at now.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 6:29:19 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline 		]ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

Interestingly enough, if a child is born outside the US, when one or both parents is a US Citizen, the child is usually considered a US Citizen, not a citizen of the country of birth.

Canada,Brazil, Mexico, Argentina and many others would disagree with you.

I don't give a rat's ass what those other countries think. It's how the US works, and that's what we're talking about.

Does the US have to align their immigration, naturalization, and citizenship policies with other countries? If so, why?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 6:30:40 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

Minor children of parents who were not citizens at the time of the child's birth can gain citizenship when the parents gain citizenship. The parents wouldn't be "renouncing" the child's citizenship, because citizenship hasn't been determined yet.

The child becomes a citizen at birth. When the child reaches the age of majority and can afford to sponsor the parents they can be brought in. Then of course there is the question of why the parents would want to renounce the child's U.S. citizenship?


What if he wasn't born here? What if the parents naturalized when the kid was 15, having been born outside the US? Oh, that's right. He's gains citizenship.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Thegunnysez)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 7:45:00 PM   
Thegunnysez


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/17/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

]ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

Interestingly enough, if a child is born outside the US, when one or both parents is a US Citizen, the child is usually considered a US Citizen, not a citizen of the country of birth.

Canada,Brazil, Mexico, Argentina and many others would disagree with you.


quote:

I don't give a rat's ass what those other countries think. It's how the US works, and that's what we're talking about.

Does the US have to align their immigration, naturalization, and citizenship policies with other countries? If so, why?


Your statement was that:

"the child is usually considered a US Citizen, not a citizen of the country of birth."

The countries I named and many others confer citizenship at birth whether you like or not. My point was that your statement was factually incorrect. Not that the U.S. should follow any other country in it's immigration policies.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 8:01:34 PM   
Thegunnysez


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/17/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

Who said I don't want them to come here? Since I want immigration policies to improve, to legally allow more into the country, and to make it easier and faster for foreigners to legally immigrate, how does that in any way, shape, or form, translate into me not wanting people to want to immigrate?

Specifically how many Mexicans would you allow to immigrate annually?


Specifically? No idea. I don't know what it's capped at now.



I find it astonishing that you can harbor such passionate feelings about a subject that you admittedly have virtually no knowledge of.
You do not know how many Mexicans are allowed to legally immigrate to the U.S.
You do not know the qualifications for their entry.
You do not know the penalty for hiring an illegal alien.
You do not know the laws concerning what constitutes the different classes of illegal aliens.
Why is this? Are you not interested in serious discussion? I realize there are some here who are content to trade insults. I did not think you were one of them.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 8:04:40 PM   
Thegunnysez


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/17/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez
quote:

Minor children of parents who were not citizens at the time of the child's birth can gain citizenship when the parents gain citizenship. The parents wouldn't be "renouncing" the child's citizenship, because citizenship hasn't been determined yet.

The child becomes a citizen at birth. When the child reaches the age of majority and can afford to sponsor the parents they can be brought in. Then of course there is the question of why the parents would want to renounce the child's U.S. citizenship?


What if he wasn't born here? What if the parents naturalized when the kid was 15, having been born outside the US? Oh, that's right. He's gains citizenship.


This issue concerns a hypothetical "anchor baby". Necessarily the baby was born here. If the parents acquire status before the child is of majority it does not change the child's status as a citizen.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Birthright citizenship, what's happened to the repu... - 8/23/2015 8:13:14 PM   
Thegunnysez


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/17/2015
Status: offline
quote:

The 14th Amendment doesn't bring up anything about whether the parents are only here for a visit or not. Where do you come up with that idea?


You brought up diplomat's children not being citizens.

quote:

You still can't understand the intent of the 14th Amendment, even when it's quoted by the guy that wrote that section.



You said the opinions of those who wrote the amendment were not relevant...only the printed words on the paper were necessary to understand the document. Now, if you wish to change your mind and bring in this individuals opinion then we must also bring in the other 240 odd individuals who created this document.



quote:

Wait. I'm wrong. I'm sure you understand. You just won't agree.


I certainly understand what you are saying and I am disagreeing with it.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 80
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