RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (Full Version)

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cloudboy -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/2/2015 8:01:51 AM)


One thing's for sure, she's got some staying power. Dan Savage believes it's all about a book deal.




JVoV -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/2/2015 8:01:53 AM)

Also of note, Kentucky law allows for petitions for recall elections, but they must be filed no later than the second Tuesday of August before a regular election.




Thegunnysez -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/2/2015 8:02:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Yes but it's better than sitting around crowing about how happy you are that there are still ignorant bigots in the world like head in the clouds boy is doing.


Is that what he is doing or is he crowing about the posibility of her getting free room and board at the crossbar motel?




cloudboy -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/2/2015 8:08:50 AM)


He used to be a seminarian. Never knew that till now.




Lucylastic -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/2/2015 8:09:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sloguy02246


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Is there a leggal limit on how long a judge can lock up someone for contempt of court? I see her doing a life sentence and owing the government more money than her and her great great great great grandchildren could ever pay. Principle can outweigh other consideratios at times.

I think she is trying to martyr herself.
I doubt she will get much of anything.
I hope she loses her job.


According to today's Chicago Tribune, Ms. Davis is paid $80,000/year as the county clerk.
Also, since county clerk is an elected position, she cannot be summarily fired. She can only be removed as a result of impeachment by the state legislature, which is currently on summer vacation.

The article also stated that rather than be given jail time, the judge should order her to forfeit her salary for whatever time period during which she has failed and continues to fail to perform the duties of her office.


Finally, from an email received from a friend earlier this morning:

"To issue a marriage license which conflicts with God’s definition of marriage, with my name affixed to the certificate, would violate my conscience."

Which "God's definition" is she talking about? In Genesis, Abraham had a concubine. King Solomon had 700 wives. In western Europe before the Reformation, people could get married in secret without clergy present, and there was no divorce. In the Middle Ages one could not marry within four degrees of relation, which was changed to seven, and then back to four in 1215. Before the 13th century, priests could marry, then they couldn't. After the Reformation, both Protestants and Catholics required church weddings and began to more strictly regulate the institution. Catholics maintained that marriage was a sacrament, Protestants did not.

Basically, what "God's definition" for marriage is has always been contentious, without any consensus whatsoever, even within particular religious denominations. Perhaps it's because marriage is actually an inherently social institution.



I did realise that she was elected, and cannot be summarily fired, or they would have done it by now.
Justice Scalia said in a supreme court case majority decision

The Court held that the First Amendment's protection of the "free exercise" of religion does not allow a person to use a religious motivation as a reason not to obey such generally applicable laws. "To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself." Thus, the Court had held that religious beliefs did not excuse people from complying with laws forbidding polygamy, child labor laws, Sunday closing laws, laws requiring citizens to register for Selective Service, and laws requiring the payment of Social Security taxes.




Lucylastic -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/2/2015 8:12:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

Finally, from an email received from a friend earlier this morning:

"To issue a marriage license which conflicts with God’s definition of marriage, with my name affixed to the certificate, would violate my conscience."


What about the part that says "what God has joined together let no man set asunder". She has put God's joining together asunder so many times she has rice marks in her face.

snort




dcnovice -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/2/2015 5:12:35 PM)

FR

Now and then, my odd assortment of historical trivia sheds light on a current problem. I'm thinking that may be the case with Kim Davis, the thrice-divorced defender of the sanctity of marriage in Rowan County, Kentucky. As you've all probably read by now, she's an elected official, so there's no straightforward way to fire her for refusing to do her job. But . . .

Back in 1906, President Theodore Roosevelt came under the spell of simplified spelling, ordering the Government Printing Office to adopt it. Not pleased, Congress decided that no publicly appropriated money could be used to pay the head of the GPO unless he adhered to traditional spelling. At that point, TR threw in the towel and rescinded his order. So . . .

Mightn't there be a way for whoever holds the purse strings in Rowan County to say, "Well, Ms. Davis, we may be stuck with you, but we're not paying you if you don't do the job"?

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/download/pdf?id=mdp.39015033897433;orient=0;size=100;seq=146;num=86;attachment=0




dcnovice -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/2/2015 5:15:03 PM)

FR

Yet another Kim Davis thought: Suppose the aggrieved couples et al sued the county government? After all, it's failing to provide a key service.

I suspect support for her would shrink once taxpayers realized she's gonna cost them a fortune in legal fees and/or damages.




dcnovice -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/2/2015 5:28:31 PM)

quote:

I think she is trying to martyr herself.

Or being used by folks seeking a martyr to rally supporters--and contributors--for decades more of cultural warfare.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/08/31/kim_davis_and_the_liberty_counsel_anti_gay_group_is_bad_news.html




Thegunnysez -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/2/2015 5:34:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice .

Mightn't there be a way for whoever holds the purse strings in Rowan County to say, "Well, Ms. Davis, we may be stuck with you, but we're not paying you if you don't do the job"?


I believe that tactic was used by the founders where they would refuse to pay the governor and other officials when things did not go their way




dcnovice -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/2/2015 8:01:49 PM)

FR

Interesting question:

"I have to wonder just how many of those supporting Kentucky clerk Kim Davis' refusal to issue marriage licenses based on her religious objection to same-sex couples marrying would support a Quaker government official who refused to issue them gun permits based on a religious commitment to pacifism?" - Lambda Legal Director Jon Davidson




Thegunnysez -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/3/2015 5:16:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

FR

Interesting question:

"I have to wonder just how many of those supporting Kentucky clerk Kim Davis' refusal to issue marriage licenses based on her religious objection to same-sex couples marrying would support a Quaker government official who refused to issue them gun permits based on a religious commitment to pacifism?" - Lambda Legal Director Jon Davidson


Interesting concept.




dcnovice -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/3/2015 8:20:41 AM)

Separated at birth? [;)]

[image]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CN1sDA0WcAApmhh.jpg[/image]




thishereboi -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/3/2015 8:31:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

you wish she would understand she understood she was wrong...and change her mind.
ok, wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which fills up first.



Yes but it's better than sitting around crowing about how happy you are that there are still ignorant bigots in the world like head in the clouds boy is doing.

just seems that you are after cloud for not agreeing with YOU...
as usual.



if that's the case then I guess you are after me for daring to suggest the little boy might be wrong about something. But it's hard to tell since you seem focused on me and haven't commented on whether you would be happier if she got a clue and changed her mind or stayed an ignorant bigot.




thishereboi -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/3/2015 8:36:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

You find happiness in the strangest situations. Personally I would have been happier if she had finally understood why she was wrong and changed. But for some reason you are glad that she didn't. Of course if everyone suddenly understood why they should live their own lives and let gays do the same, you wouldn't have anyone to hate on and sometimes it seems like you live to hate on others. Must suck to live with that kind of anger 24/7.


Please help me out here. Isn't his anger directed at the haters that hate you?


Why yes tommy it is. Which is why I said "Personally I would have been happier if she had finally understood why she was wrong and changed."




Thegunnysez -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/3/2015 8:46:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

You find happiness in the strangest situations. Personally I would have been happier if she had finally understood why she was wrong and changed. But for some reason you are glad that she didn't. Of course if everyone suddenly understood why they should live their own lives and let gays do the same, you wouldn't have anyone to hate on and sometimes it seems like you live to hate on others. Must suck to live with that kind of anger 24/7.


Please help me out here. Isn't his anger directed at the haters that hate you?


Why yes tommy it is. Which is why I said "Personally I would have been happier if she had finally understood why she was wrong and changed."



Please help me out here. Isn't his anger directed at the haters that hate you?
It would seem more likely a thankyou would be in order for any civilized polite individual who had been done a favor by another instead of the vitriol you have posted.




thishereboi -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/3/2015 8:55:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thegunnysez

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

You find happiness in the strangest situations. Personally I would have been happier if she had finally understood why she was wrong and changed. But for some reason you are glad that she didn't. Of course if everyone suddenly understood why they should live their own lives and let gays do the same, you wouldn't have anyone to hate on and sometimes it seems like you live to hate on others. Must suck to live with that kind of anger 24/7.


Please help me out here. Isn't his anger directed at the haters that hate you?


Why yes tommy it is. Which is why I said "Personally I would have been happier if she had finally understood why she was wrong and changed."



Please help me out here. Isn't his anger directed at the haters that hate you?
It would seem more likely a thankyou would be in order for any civilized polite individual who had been done a favor by another instead of the vitriol you have posted.



We were not talking about a civilized polite individual, we were talking about cloudboy. And I have no clue what favor you think he has done me. All he does is post about how evil everyone on the right is.




cloudboy -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/3/2015 8:55:47 AM)


OMG!




Thegunnysez -> RE: Sore Loser -- Can't face the future (9/3/2015 9:40:09 AM)

quote:

We were not talking about a civilized polite individual,


I was speaking of you and if you do not consider yourself a civilized polite individual then you would know better than I about that.




quote:

we were talking about cloudboy. And I have no clue what favor you think he has done me.

You claim to be gay. He is supporting gay marriage. If you do not consider that a favor then obviously, to you, it is not. Others would possible see it differently.
No we were discussing his opinions not him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

Yes but it's better than sitting around crowing about how happy you are that there are still ignorant bigots in the world like head in the clouds boy is doing.


quote:

All he does is post about how evil everyone on the right is.


This particular post was about the woman who refused to do the job she was hired to do and the possibility of her going to jail.




Lucylastic -> Kim Davis Jailed for Contempt in Kentucky Gay Marriage Dispute (9/3/2015 11:29:07 AM)

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/04/us/kim-davis-same-sex-marriage.html?emc=edit_na_20150903&nlid=69606674&ref=cta&_r=0

ASHLAND, Ky. — A federal judge here on Thursday ordered a Kentucky clerk jailed for contempt of court because of her refusal to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples.

The clerk, Kim Davis of Rowan County, was jailed after a hearing before Judge David L. Bunning of Federal District Court. The contempt finding was another legal defeat for Ms. Davis, who has argued that she should not be forced to issue licenses that conflict with her religious beliefs.

“The court cannot condone the willful disobedience of its lawfully issued order,” Judge Bunning said. “If you give people the opportunity to choose which orders they follow, that’s what potentially causes problems.”

Judge Bunning said Ms. Davis would be released once she agreed to comply with his order and issue the marriage licenses.

Ms. Davis tearfully testified that she had not hesitated to stand by her religious views and defy the courts. “I didn’t have to think about it,” she said. “There was no choice there.”

Continue reading the main story
RELATED COVERAGE

video Same-Sex Couple Confronts Kentucky ClerkSEPT. 1, 2015
Kim Davis, the Rowan County clerk of courts, shut her office door after denying a marriage license to a same-sex couple in Morehead, Ky., on Wednesday.Kentucky Clerk Who Said ‘No’ to Gay Couples Won’t Be Alone in CourtSEPT. 2, 2015
Same-sex marriage supporters, left, and opponents, right, faced off Tuesday at the Rowan County Courthouse in Morehead, Ky.Kentucky Clerk Denies Same-Sex Marriage Licenses, Defying CourtSEPT. 1, 2015
Kim Davis, an elected clerk, at work in Rowan County, Ky.Supreme Court Says Kentucky Clerk Must Let Gay Couples Marry AUG. 31, 2015
document Appellate Ruling on Issuing Marriage Licenses to Same-Sex CouplesAUG. 27, 2015
At the hearing, Ms. Davis, an Apostolic Christian, was asked how she defined marriage.

Continue reading the main story
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“Marriage is between one man and one woman,” she replied, before a lawyer asked her whether she had “the ability to believe marriage is anything else.”

Ms. Davis offered a terse response: “No.”

Later, one of the women who has unsuccessfully sought a marriage license in Rowan County, April Miller, told Judge Bunning that Ms. Davis’s stand “marginalizes us again.”

Judge Bunning left little doubt about his thinking, and said Ms. Davis’s explanation for disobeying his order was “simply insufficient.”

“It’s not physically impossible for her to issue the licenses,” he said. “She’s choosing not to.”

While many observers had expected the judge to declare Ms. Davis to be in contempt, few believed he would jail her on Thursday. But Judge Bunning said he thought merely fining Ms. Davis would not be enough to prompt her compliance.

As marshals led her from the courtroom, Ms. Davis said, “Thank you, judge.”

Continue reading the main story
RECENT COMMENTS

Matthew Just now
I am so happy to see this news today! Either she will change her mind (which I doubt) or she will stay locked up for a good, long time. We...
Tammy Just now
What I fail to understand is why this women was not fired/placed on leave without pay after the first refusal to issue a license to a gay...
Lindy Just now
I do not support homosexual marriage. I also do not understand why the clerk chose to pick this fight.This was a fight she was destined to...
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Thursday’s court ruling was the first since the Supreme Court on Monday turned down Ms. Davis’s appeal of an Aug. 12 ruling by Judge Bunning directing her to issue marriage licenses. The justices’ decision was expected to clear the way for same-sex marriages in Rowan County. But on Tuesday, the clerk and her employees again refused to issue licenses in Morehead, the seat of Rowan County.

Within hours lawyers for the couples who had initially sued Ms. Davis asked Judge Bunning to hold her in contempt.

Supporters and opponents of Ms. Davis gathered outside the federal courthouse here Thursday hours before she was due to appear. One man waved a rainbow flag — a symbol of the gay rights movement — while another clutched a flag that said, “Liberty.”

“We’re supporters of the rule of the law,” said David Wills, a computer programmer from West Virginia who was first in line and said he had arrived at 4 a.m. for a hearing scheduled to begin seven hours later. “It’s just really important to me that people be treated equally, fairly.”

Ms. Davis’s supporters, prepared with an ice chest filled with water, also gathered ahead of a hearing they called critical to protecting religious liberty in Kentucky and elsewhere.

“They’re taking rights away from Christians,” Danny Kinder, a 73-year-old retiree from Morehead, said of the courts. “They’ve overstepped their bounds.”

“I’ve been praying about it, and we just have to turn it over to the Lord,” he said. “She has got to stand for what she believes, and I have to stand for what I believe, and I’m behind her 100 percent.”




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