RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (Full Version)

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kdsub -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 10:27:02 AM)

I don't know about you but i haven't heard Denali called McKinley in a long time. I thought the request for the change was by an Alaskan Senator at the behest of the people of Alaska... so why should we care, outside of Alaska, and try to make it political?

Butch




BamaD -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 10:36:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't know about you but i haven't heard Denali called McKinley in a long time. I thought the request for the change was by an Alaskan Senator at the behest of the people of Alaska... so why should we care, outside of Alaska, and try to make it political?

Butch


No, at the request of an Alaskan congress woman.
She has been pushing this for 16 years, and there is no indication of an outcry among the people of Alaska.




kdsub -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 10:43:15 AM)

Why would you say that when she has been pushing for it for 16 years and HAS BEEN RE-ELECTED FOR 16 YEARS? I would say this affirms the Alaskan peoples desires.

Butch




peppermint -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 10:48:43 AM)

To be honest, I thought the change of names had happened years ago. I never hear anyone refer to it as Mt McKinley. If someone says Denali I know exactly what they are talking about, and I'm not from Alaska.

Let's face it, some idiot back in the 1890s saw a big hill and decided to call it by the name of a candidate for president. I guess he liked the way the name sounded. Said idiot didn't ask around to see if the big hill already had a name. Now, I look at things this way. Idiot can call the hill whatever he likes to call it, however, he can't make the people who live near the mountain call it anything but what they'd always called it.

So the people who live in Alaska want the name returned to the name their parents and grandparents used. It's the name they still use for the big hill. I get it. How would the people of Dallas feel if someone idiot looked at their city and decided to call it Trumpville in honor of a presidential candidate because it was a cool sounding name?




joether -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 11:34:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
How fast would these Obama supporters change their tune if a Republican President decided to change the names of every Martin Luther King public place to Ronald Reagan?


Be just like the natives of Alaska; call it as it was originally named. But we wont have to worry about that possible likelihood until sometime after 2024 (the GOP/TP's best shot at the White House at current). Then we'll just change it back in 2028.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Obama's a stupid fucknut of a man


An yet, he could school you any day of the week on any topic important to most Americans. What does that say of your characteristics in life?




BamaD -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 11:40:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Why would you say that when she has been pushing for it for 16 years and HAS BEEN RE-ELECTED FOR 16 YEARS? I would say this affirms the Alaskan peoples desires.

Butch

I suspect that nobody goes into the polling booth thinking that the big issue in the race is changing the name of a Mt. It just means that this didn't make her a big enough fool in thier eyes to override real issues.




joether -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 11:43:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Does anyone know the original name of the swamp that DC was built upon?


There were about a 100 acres border-lining Washington D.C. when it was originally made the capital. According to Don Hawkins, only 2% of the original area of D.C., was swamp land. General Washington, being a military man, would like to occupy the high ground rather than a swamp. Makes sense he would place the capital building on a hill.

As Mr. Hawkins explains it: "So the story that Washington was located in a swamp is a wild exaggeration based on selected facts: the common genes of political metaphor."




joether -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 11:50:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Why would you say that when she has been pushing for it for 16 years and HAS BEEN RE-ELECTED FOR 16 YEARS? I would say this affirms the Alaskan peoples desires.

Butch

I suspect that nobody goes into the polling booth thinking that the big issue in the race is changing the name of a Mt. It just means that this didn't make her a big enough fool in thier eyes to override real issues.



If Alaskans were using that lump three feet above their ass for something besides a paper weight; Sarah Palin would never have become 'Pawn of the Oil Indus---er---Governor of Alaska!

Frankly this issue is only big because conservatives and libertarians are making it an issue. Its not like they have anything constructive or useful to talk about to the rest of the nation for the pass seven years.....




subrob1967 -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 12:37:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Does anyone know the original name of the swamp that DC was built upon?


I believe the Native American term is "What's between Stef's legs"




BamaD -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 1:58:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
How fast would these Obama supporters change their tune if a Republican President decided to change the names of every Martin Luther King public place to Ronald Reagan?


Be just like the natives of Alaska; call it as it was originally named. But we wont have to worry about that possible likelihood until sometime after 2024 (the GOP/TP's best shot at the White House at current). Then we'll just change it back in 2028.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967
Obama's a stupid fucknut of a man


An yet, he could school you any day of the week on any topic important to most Americans. What does that say of your characteristics in life?

So you would favor changing the names of everything now named after MLK back to what they were before him? That is the problem with your argument, by the time you get done everything is called ugh.




BamaD -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 2:03:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Does anyone know the original name of the swamp that DC was built upon?


There were about a 100 acres border-lining Washington D.C. when it was originally made the capital. According to Don Hawkins, only 2% of the original area of D.C., was swamp land. General Washington, being a military man, would like to occupy the high ground rather than a swamp. Makes sense he would place the capital building on a hill.

As Mr. Hawkins explains it: "So the story that Washington was located in a swamp is a wild exaggeration based on selected facts: the common genes of political metaphor."

How do you like the idea of changing your state to vineland, or the Iroquois name for the region? To be consistent that is what you should be pushing.




DesideriScuri -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 2:17:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Given that the mountain was 'named' by a local prospector and only because apparently, after hearing that McKinley was running for pres. and without regard to the native people who lived there, it is a no brainer.


The story goes that this gold prospector supported McKinley because McK was a supporter of the gold standard, while McK's political opponent, William Jennings Bryan, was a supporter of the "Free Silver Movement," and decidedly opposed to the gold standard.

As a native (current, and lifelong) Ohioan, I don't give a rat's ass if Mt. McKinley is renamed to it's original native name.

As far as the Constitutionality of the renaming goes, apparently the Secretary of the Interior was granted the authority to rename it (not specifically) in the passage of legislation in 1947. Since Congress passed the legislation and the President signed it into law, 68 years ago, it sure seems like it's Constitutional, no matter what any GOP party member might think.




DesideriScuri -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 2:25:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
I don't know about you but i haven't heard Denali called McKinley in a long time. I thought the request for the change was by an Alaskan Senator at the behest of the people of Alaska... so why should we care, outside of Alaska, and try to make it political?
Butch

No, at the request of an Alaskan congress woman.
She has been pushing this for 16 years, and there is no indication of an outcry among the people of Alaska.


No, at the request of the Alaskan Legislature, for more than 16 years.
    quote:

    Alaska Board of Geographic Names attempts to change name

    Ohio Congressman Ralph Regula's opposition prevented the renaming of Mount McKinley from 1975 to 2009.
    Mount McKinley was commonly referred to by its Koyukon Athabaskan name Denali, especially by Alaskans, mountaineers, and Alaska Natives. In 1975, the Alaska Board of Geographic Names changed the name of the mountain to Denali[12] and, at Governor Jay Hammond's behest, the Alaska Legislature officially requested that the United States Board on Geographic Names (BGN), the federal governmental body responsible for naming geographic features in the United States, change the name of the mountain from "Mount McKinley" to "Mount Denali".[13]

    Action by the BGN was staved off by the determined political maneuvering of Ohio congressman Ralph Regula, whose district included Canton, where McKinley spent much of his life.[14][15] At first, BGN consideration was delayed by resistance from Secretary of the Interior Rogers Morton, under whose purview the BGN fell, as he personally did not favor a change of the mountain's name.[13] Later, in 1977, with Secretary Morton no longer at the helm of the Department of the Interior, the BGN again prepared to consider the name change, but Congressman Regula gathered signatures from every member of the Ohio congressional delegation warning against renaming Mount McKinley and the BGN again held off on making a ruling.[8][13] On December 2, 1980, with President Jimmy Carter's signing of the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act (ANILCA), McKinley National Park — which had been created on February 26, 1917[8] — was incorporated into a larger protected area named Denali National Park and Preserve.[16] Naming the new, larger park Denali while retaining the name Mount McKinley for the actual mountain was thought to be a compromise by many "Mount McKinley" partisans.[16][17] However, "Denali" advocates, including Alaska Congressman Don Young, vehemently disagree that the 1980 action constitutes a real compromise and instead argue that naming the mountain and park by different names only creates confusion.[17][18] While the BGN was originally set to make a ruling on December 10, 1980, with the passage of ANILCA on December 2, the BGN opted to defer their ruling.[13][19]

    The following year, Congressman Regula devised a new tactic to support the Mount McKinley name. Capitalizing on a BGN policy[20] that states the Board cannot consider any name-change proposal if congressional legislation relating to that name is pending, Regula began a biennial legislative tradition of either introducing language into Interior Department appropriation bills or introducing a standalone bill that states that the name of Mount McKinley shall not be changed.[13][21] This effectively killed the Denali name-change proposal pending with the BGN.[13]




joether -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 2:41:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So you would favor changing the names of everything now named after MLK back to what they were before him? That is the problem with your argument, by the time you get done everything is called ugh.


Its called 'make an argument'. Which usually has 'evidence' to support the primary idea. If you have an argument that is good, and the supporting evidence is good; you will have a better chance convincing people to your viewpoint. Many people wish the name of a mountain to be changed. Just as many people have led the fight to remove a traitorous flag from flying over town and state flagpoles. It is why land that was once 'owned' by American Indians is returned to them.

Perhaps you should work on learning the concept before attacking it.....




BamaD -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 3:00:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So you would favor changing the names of everything now named after MLK back to what they were before him? That is the problem with your argument, by the time you get done everything is called ugh.


Its called 'make an argument'. Which usually has 'evidence' to support the primary idea. If you have an argument that is good, and the supporting evidence is good; you will have a better chance convincing people to your viewpoint. Many people wish the name of a mountain to be changed. Just as many people have led the fight to remove a traitorous flag from flying over town and state flagpoles. It is why land that was once 'owned' by American Indians is returned to them.

Perhaps you should work on learning the concept before attacking it.....

Since it was all "owned" by native Americans should we give it all back to them? How do we sort out who they took it from, for example the Sioux had taken control of a lot of land previously "owned" by other tribes. How do we return land to the Neanderthals? The argument that things should be returned to the "original" names is really an argument to purge society of things you don't want. You know that if the first recorded name for a place was European Obama (pardon, his most exhalted personage President Obama) wouldn't dream of it.




joether -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 3:05:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey
Does anyone know the original name of the swamp that DC was built upon?


There were about a 100 acres border-lining Washington D.C. when it was originally made the capital. According to Don Hawkins, only 2% of the original area of D.C., was swamp land. General Washington, being a military man, would like to occupy the high ground rather than a swamp. Makes sense he would place the capital building on a hill.

As Mr. Hawkins explains it: "So the story that Washington was located in a swamp is a wild exaggeration based on selected facts: the common genes of political metaphor."

How do you like the idea of changing your state to vineland, or the Iroquois name for the region? To be consistent that is what you should be pushing.


Since Massachusetts was named for the people of Massachusett, your argument is a bit silly. If Governor Baker wanted change the state's name; I'm thinking he'll be out of a job come the next election. Since President Obama can not run for another term in office (unless he challenges a certain amendment); what does he have to lose by changing the name of a mountain?

You are aware that Alaska is the last state the President has not visited during his time in office? So, he's making an excuse to visit the state; got a problem with that?




kdsub -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 3:56:05 PM)

Well if you knew about it...would not they be more likely to know about it?

Butch




stef -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 4:30:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967

I believe the Native American term is "What's between Stef's legs"

Your fascination with my genitalia is troubling.




Sanity -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 5:18:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrob1967


quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Does anyone know the original name of the swamp that DC was built upon?


I believe the Native American term is "What's between Stef's legs"


Hey

Enough with insulting swampland




MercTech -> RE: President renames Mt. McKinley (8/31/2015 6:03:56 PM)

I remember some of Jefferson's writing mentioning the home of the future capitol being "on the Potomac flats". The early maps, if I remember correctly, show the capitol sited where the Potomac spread and became a wetlands. Neither Maryland nor Virginia were really doing anything with that parcel so each state donated some acreage. (overly simplistic paraphrasing but gives the big picture)




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