RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night

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FelineRanger -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/18/2015 9:30:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 too much infighting, ranting tones, self-aggrandizement and talking in generalities. its hard to believe the rnc, or the voters, find any worth in this process. This is politics in general on both sides of the aisle. I just disagree with the Republican platform more.

bounty44 -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/18/2015 2:54:34 PM)
I buy that. its unfortunate too---I really wish the national committee's would seriously change the formats of these things...

bounty44 -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/18/2015 3:46:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hot4bondage I didn't know much about Florina before this debate, but now I think she is one of the scariest candidates. She seems to like big government just fine as long as Republicans are in charge. She would have us at war with women, potheads, Russia, and half of the Middle East before the midterm. ...And she'd probably sing the praises of limited government every step of the way... I didn't watch the entire show, and I cannot even say otherwise that carly Fiorina is not a big government republican, but neither do I recall anything in particular to lead me to believe that she is. which is a really roundabout way of saying, what's making you think she's "big government?"

MrRodgers -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/18/2015 4:50:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: MrRodgers quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 really have no idea what youre talking about there... but since you mention "big government", let me add: with little exception, most things in the country get done, and/or get done better, at the state and local level as opposed to the federal. its mind boggling that you liberals just cannot seem to either grasp, or accept that. Fifty interstate highway administrations? Fifty state nasa programs? Fifty state armies? Fifty interstate commerce commissions? Fifty federal aviation agencies? Well the real deal all of these things don't go state, is for obvious financial greed. No state FDIC, no state farm subsidies, no state financed TARP's, the federal govt. offering by far the best return on investment to lobbying for tax giveaways. The capitalist can't enjoy near the socialism of his risk at the state level even though they make every attempt. Stated don't have the money. Same reason Texas (or any state) wouldn't and Quebec...didn't secede. apparently Thompson cannot tell the difference between MOST things (which is what was said) as opposed to all things. Well let's take a look. It would impractical to have 50 state Nasa's...wouldn't it ? Aren't there 50 state armies called national guards ? Inter-state defies the definition of intra-state if there were such institutions as state commerce commissions...wouldn't it ? Maybe there should be 50 state aviation agencies. But again, the state can't afford such a multi-billion $ handout to the airlines while the feds can afford it and what a deal...the airports too.

hot4bondage -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/19/2015 8:34:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: hot4bondage I didn't know much about Florina before this debate, but now I think she is one of the scariest candidates. She seems to like big government just fine as long as Republicans are in charge. She would have us at war with women, potheads, Russia, and half of the Middle East before the midterm. ...And she'd probably sing the praises of limited government every step of the way... I didn't watch the entire show, and I cannot even say otherwise that carly Fiorina is not a big government republican, but neither do I recall anything in particular to lead me to believe that she is. which is a really roundabout way of saying, what's making you think she's "big government?" She wants to expand the world's largest military and use it in ways that might easily draw us into yet another prolonged conflict in the Middle East, another cold war, another Cuban missile crisis. I'm not saying we shouldn't carry the big stick, but she's using reckless language and misleading us about our relative strength and readiness. She wants to outlaw abortions after 20 weeks. How could a law like that be enforced without investigating miscarriages? That would require a huge expansion in the size and scope of law enforcement. In the debate, she invoked her step-daughter's alcohol and pill-related death as a reason not to legalize marijuana. I guess that's understandable, but it's not rational. To her credit, she did say that she wouldn't interfere with states that have defied federal prohibition, but what about the rest of the world? As I'm sure you know, the war on drugs has been the antithesis of limited government. I didn't watch the whole show, either. A good word for it, by the way. Seemed like more of a reality show than a debate. But i did see enough to be convinced that Florina is a socially conservative interventionist. Granted her version of big government would be a lot different than, say, Bernie Sanders' version, but to me it's just another type of statism.

Lucylastic -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/19/2015 9:13:31 AM)
Ive kept quiet this since the debate. Fiorina is trying to be like Thatcher...from my memories of watching thatcher flap her lips. The lies she said about PP was utter BS. And this week, the legislation came from deceptive lying videos. and the "corporation" that made the edits are trying to claim the fifth (but denied by the judge) so they dont have to give up the truth. Six states have looked at the original videos and found nothing illegal. Fiorina claimed something in the debate that is BLATANTLY not true. Yet, the repubs have shut down funding . Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee Then we have Trump doing his schtick, and a fellow birther stands up, and he is embracing the anger and delusions. Ignorance and more hate is just what he is stoking.

Greta75 -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/19/2015 10:29:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: I don't think America has ever elected an overweight President Five presidents have been “obese” according to the BMI. Taft 340#(42.3 on the BMI), Cleveland (34.6), McKinley (31.1), Taylor (30.2), and Teddy Roosevelt (30.2). Bill Clinton was overweight with a BMI of 28.3.Sep 28, 2011 Times have change though, fit is the new in! Bill Clinton never looked overweight to me, but I should google the pictures of other Presidents when I am free. I never hear anybody make fat jokes about Clinton, but poor Christie keeps getting ridiculed for his weight online.

Greta75 -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/19/2015 10:31:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Why do you think that the u.s. has a right to interfere in the internal affairs of a soverign nation? It's not about the right, they are dropping sanctions in conditions to a few things anyway right? So it should be in their conditions to be allowed random checks. It's called a negotiation of terms.

Greta75 -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/19/2015 10:34:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic fox would never host a dem debate. The question is, would democrats dare to debate when fox holds it? I think fox would love to hold a debate lol. Put all their hardcores, like Hannity as moderator hahaha. Oh man! It's a rating spinner, they should totally do it!! This Bernie Sanders dude is such a nice guy though. I can see why his gaining popularity. Sometimes to be President, you just need to be likable by majority too. Need charm.

bounty44 -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/20/2015 4:00:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hot4bondage quote: ORIGINAL: bounty44 quote: ORIGINAL: hot4bondage I didn't know much about Florina before this debate, but now I think she is one of the scariest candidates. She seems to like big government just fine as long as Republicans are in charge. She would have us at war with women, potheads, Russia, and half of the Middle East before the midterm. ...And she'd probably sing the praises of limited government every step of the way... I didn't watch the entire show, and I cannot even say otherwise that carly Fiorina is not a big government republican, but neither do I recall anything in particular to lead me to believe that she is. which is a really roundabout way of saying, what's making you think she's "big government?" She wants to expand the world's largest military and use it in ways that might easily draw us into yet another prolonged conflict in the Middle East, another cold war, another Cuban missile crisis. I'm not saying we shouldn't carry the big stick, but she's using reckless language and misleading us about our relative strength and readiness. She wants to outlaw abortions after 20 weeks. How could a law like that be enforced without investigating miscarriages? That would require a huge expansion in the size and scope of law enforcement. In the debate, she invoked her step-daughter's alcohol and pill-related death as a reason not to legalize marijuana. I guess that's understandable, but it's not rational. To her credit, she did say that she wouldn't interfere with states that have defied federal prohibition, but what about the rest of the world? As I'm sure you know, the war on drugs has been the antithesis of limited government. I didn't watch the whole show, either. A good word for it, by the way. Seemed like more of a reality show than a debate. But i did see enough to be convinced that Florina is a socially conservative interventionist. Granted her version of big government would be a lot different than, say, Bernie Sanders' version, but to me it's just another type of statism. I typically don't see the military and law enforcement included under the rubric of "big government." maybe they are to liberals? when people use that phrase, its been my experience they are talking about entitlements, tax codes, regulations, redundant services/agencies and the government taking the place of things people could be and should be doing themselves, or at a state and local level and just overall getting in the way of peoples freedom and abrogating their responsibility. i don't disagree that an argument could be made there for the "war on drugs" having a big government component to it, but that doesn't seem to typify carly Fiorina. in any event though---i don't see any platform coming forth from her that is consistent with the "state controlling economic and social policy"--which is a brief description of statism.

bounty44 -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/20/2015 4:21:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic fox would never host a dem debate. The question is, would democrats dare to debate when fox holds it? I think fox would love to hold a debate lol. Put all their hardcores, like Hannity as moderator hahaha. Oh man! It's a rating spinner, they should totally do it!! This Bernie Sanders dude is such a nice guy though. I can see why his gaining popularity. Sometimes to be President, you just need to be likable by majority too. Need charm. a good question, and I think the answer is no they wouldn't, which actually tells you something more about democrats than about fox. especially given that republicans are willing to engage in arenas outside their "home field" so to speak. that said, i wouldn't want Hannity to be a moderator. while i think he would indeed be firm, i also think his dislike for the left would cloud the outcome. as i mentioned above, i think megyn Kelly, brett baier, and chris Wallace would be good choices. greta van susteren also.

Lucylastic -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/20/2015 5:35:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic fox would never host a dem debate. The question is, would democrats dare to debate when fox holds it? I think fox would love to hold a debate lol. Put all their hardcores, like Hannity as moderator hahaha. Oh man! It's a rating spinner, they should totally do it!! This Bernie Sanders dude is such a nice guy though. I can see why his gaining popularity. Sometimes to be President, you just need to be likable by majority too. Need charm. well Ive heard dumber ideas, but they also had little to do with reality.

bounty44 -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/20/2015 7:57:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic fox would never host a dem debate. The question is, would democrats dare to debate when fox holds it? I think fox would love to hold a debate lol. Put all their hardcores, like Hannity as moderator hahaha. Oh man! It's a rating spinner, they should totally do it!! This Bernie Sanders dude is such a nice guy though. I can see why his gaining popularity. Sometimes to be President, you just need to be likable by majority too. Need charm. by the way greta, fox wanted to host a 2008 democratic "debate" but the dnc wouldn't let it happen.

bounty44 -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/20/2015 7:59:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic fox would never host a dem debate. The question is, would democrats dare to debate when fox holds it? I think fox would love to hold a debate lol. Put all their hardcores, like Hannity as moderator hahaha. Oh man! It's a rating spinner, they should totally do it!! This Bernie Sanders dude is such a nice guy though. I can see why his gaining popularity. Sometimes to be President, you just need to be likable by majority too. Need charm. by the way greta, fox wanted to host a 2008 democratic "debate" but the dnc wouldn't let it happen.

hot4bondage -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/20/2015 8:28:23 AM)
I think that if the government is involved, there should always be limitations with no exceptions. Many liberals abandon that principle on the issues you mentioned, but many conservatives also abandon it when supporting the military, law enforcement, big business, and social engineering. It's irresponsible but unfortunately it tends to get votes. One of the good things about primary season is that the pandering becomes more obvious since each side is more focused on its base than the general electorate.

thompsonx -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/20/2015 10:45:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: I don't think America has ever elected an overweight President Five presidents have been “obese” according to the BMI. Taft 340#(42.3 on the BMI), Cleveland (34.6), McKinley (31.1), Taylor (30.2), and Teddy Roosevelt (30.2). Bill Clinton was overweight with a BMI of 28.3.Sep 28, 2011 Times have change though, fit is the new in! Bill Clinton never looked overweight to me, but I should google the pictures of other Presidents when I am free. I never hear anybody make fat jokes about Clinton, but poor Christie keeps getting ridiculed for his weight online. I listed the bmi. I would put cristie up around 40.0...they are just comparative. I think I read someplace that 18-20 is about normal for healthy people.

thompsonx -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/20/2015 10:49:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx Why do you think that the u.s. has a right to interfere in the internal affairs of a soverign nation? It's not about the right, they are dropping sanctions in conditions to a few things anyway right? So it should be in their conditions to be allowed random checks. It's called a negotiation of terms. Why do you think that the u.s. has a right to interfere in the internal affairs of a soverign nation? What right has the u.s. to tell iran that they may or may not posses a nuclear weapon?

thompsonx -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/20/2015 11:02:11 AM)
quote: I typically don't see the military and law enforcement included under the rubric of "big government." maybe they are to liberals? How large is the defense budget? Who are we going to fight with the joint strike fighter? Why do we need another aircraft carrier? Why do cops need helicopters and armored personel carriers? quote: when people use that phrase, its been my experience they are talking about entitlements, Like farm subsidies to adm and cargill? quote: tax codes, regulations, Like the oil depletion allowance? quote: redundant services/agencies Which ones? quote: and the government taking the place of things people could be and should be doing themselves, Could you be a bit more specific? Which things should people be doing for themselves? quote: or at a state and local level and just overall getting in the way of peoples freedom and abrogating their responsibility. Corporations abrogate their responsibility are you for making corporations illegal? What would you have the state and local govt do? This is the second time I have asked. How about some specifics. quote: i don't disagree that an argument could be made there for the "war on drugs" having a big government component to it, but that doesn't seem to typify carly Fiorina. Why do you feel the government has or should have a say in what you choose to drink or smoke? quote: "state controlling economic and social policy"--which is a brief description of statism. Since the state is the hired bitch of the people I fail to see your issue?

Politesub53 -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/20/2015 4:05:28 PM)
It seems many republicans have been caught up in the "Obama is a Muslim" bullshit, even Carson is now in on the act, despite the Constitution stating Religion is no barrier to Muslims. The republicans, between them, seem to be pandering to the lowest common denominator, fear. They also seem to be isolating minorities one group at a time.

thompsonx -> RE: cnn presidential "debates" last night (9/20/2015 4:14:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 It seems many republicans have been caught up in the "Obama is a Muslim" bullshit, even Carson is now in on the act, despite the Constitution stating Religion is no barrier to Muslims. The republicans, between them, seem to be pandering to the lowest common denominator, fear. They also seem to be isolating minorities one group at a time. I see no difference between the two. If you look down into a garbage pail full of maggots how does one tell the pretty ones from the ugly or the demopubs from the republicrats?

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