Police shooting vehicles from helicopters

Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/19/2015 11:03:19 AM)
Where does the gubblemint stupidity end? quote: The suspect was wanted in connection to a prior home-invasion robbery in Fontana. Authorities recognized the suspect's beige Chevrolet Tahoe on Friday around 12:49 p.m. and attempted to conduct a traffic stop when a chase ensued. The suspect led authorities on a chase through surface streets in Fontana and San Bernardino before he started driving the wrong way in the northbound lanes of the 215 Freeway. At one point, the suspect sideswiped another car. The suspect reached speeds as high as 100 mph, according to Deputy Olivia Bozek with the sheriff's department. Deputies inside a sheriff's helicopter realized the suspect was a threat to the public's safety and began firing shots at his car. He then bailed out of the moving vehicle, which then crashed head-on into a blue Dodge Durango. The suspect eventually collapsed on the side of the road not far from the crash and died. http://abc7.com/news/wrong-way-car-chase-crash-shuts-down-northbound-215-freeway/991282/ Another trial by the court of american head up ass war mentality.

MrRodgers -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/19/2015 11:15:45 AM)
Well, I guess we are to be thankful they were good shots. They could be our future crack SS troops in the coming 4th Reich.

Real0ne -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/19/2015 11:45:59 AM)
what a racket! if ya sue em and get 100million they simply raise taxes! essentially these people are operating with near impunity.

Kirata -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/19/2015 12:31:05 PM)
"Like how did they know they were going to hit that car, you know?" said Clarice Tenny of Victorville. [image]http://www.militaryaerospace.com/content/dam/mae/logos-and_standing/42289.res/_jcr_content/renditions/pennwell.web.420.315.jpg[/image] Another of life's mysteries. K.

tj444 -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/19/2015 4:40:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata "Like how did they know they were going to hit that car, you know?" said Clarice Tenny of Victorville. [image]http://www.militaryaerospace.com/content/dam/mae/logos-and_standing/42289.res/_jcr_content/renditions/pennwell.web.420.315.jpg[/image] Another of life's mysteries. K. hmmm.. but doesnt a shooter need to also consider the speed of the target, the wind direction & speed, the speed the shooter is doing to actually make such long distance shots safe for any innocents/the public?.. and if you are in a helicopter that is quite different from shooting from a non-moving rooftop, I would think... a wind gust at the wrong time could send the shot who knows where..

Kirata -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/19/2015 4:53:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 hmmm.. but doesnt a shooter need to also consider the speed of the target, the wind direction & speed, the speed the shooter is doing to actually make such long distance shots safe for any innocents/the public?.. and if you are in a helicopter that is quite different from shooting from a non-moving rooftop, I would think... a wind gust at the wrong time could send the shot who knows where.. The pilot can minimize the shooter's variables by moving in close and matching the vehicle's speed for the shot. K.

tj444 -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/19/2015 4:58:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kirata quote: ORIGINAL: tj444 hmmm.. but doesnt a shooter need to also consider the speed of the target, the wind direction & speed, the speed the shooter is doing to actually make such long distance shots safe for any innocents/the public?.. and if you are in a helicopter that is quite different from shooting from a non-moving rooftop, I would think... a wind gust at the wrong time could send the shot who knows where.. The pilot can minimize the shooter's variables by moving in close and matching the vehicle's speed for the shot. K. I suppose.. as long as the pilot doesnt accidentally ram into trees, high rises, mountains... stuff like that.. and of course, if the driver/target has an accomplice with a gun & starts shooting back, the helicopter can be shot at/down too..

Real0ne -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/19/2015 5:47:32 PM)
The main concern and reason for the lunatic shooting him from the helicopter was to insure publics 'safety' from the lunatic driver. The durango and people in it are merely collateral damage. They should use drones that would insure the pilots safety as well. [img]http://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2015_38/1229741/150919-freeway-helicopter-shooting-mn-1020_f89bba8c24424df879eba3f7ef5b8adf.nbcnews-ux-2880-1000.jpg[/img] The real beauty is all the money we will save on trials. They arent needed anymore anyway. Ever since the courts have moved away from arrest upon probable cause to arrest upon 'reasonable' suspicion, this is only one tiny baby step further and saves the most money of all, execution upon reasonable suspicion. We will save even more when we use drones! Especially if they are green and have rechargeable batteries.

Hillwilliam -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/20/2015 7:26:20 AM)
The US sells military surplus equipment to law enforcement agencies for near nothing. The USAF is apparently retiring the A-10 soon. Just a thought.

thompsonx -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/20/2015 10:03:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam The US sells military surplus equipment to law enforcement agencies for near nothing. The USAF is apparently retiring the A-10 soon. Just a thought. Imagine the thoughts of the shooter as he watches his bullets bounce off of the a-10[:D]

joether -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/20/2015 12:05:49 PM)
Was watching the Military channel once when it was showing a documentary on the US Army's Sniper School. Each year, there is a contest that the US Army invites other branches and even allied nation's military to participate. Each team must past a series of challenges to lay claim to 'sniper of the year'. In the documentary they had invited a pair of police officers from Chicago. On one of the challenges, was to walk about sixteen miles before attacking a target. To which the two officers stated (paraphrasing from memory) "We could walk from one end of Chicago to the other and it would not be sixteen miles! Usually if we have go that distance quickly, we use a police car!". One of the other challenges involved shooting targets while from a moving helicopter. Of all the teams that took part only the police officers managed to hit the targets at least once. To say its difficult with a long rifle is an understatement. They noted that if they had a weapon that could fire more than once and semi-accurately they could 'walk' the rounds to the point of target. Is this justification for what the police officers did in the story? No, of course not. It is establishing the concept is tough to accomplish from a skill level perspective. Within the story, the target was moving against traffic at a high rate of speed. If the target was moving with traffic, I do not think the police would have tried an unorthodox tactic. Since there are plenty more tactics that can be employed. Given the target was moving against traffic, most if not all the usual methods for handling a situation with the flow of traffic were irrelevant. That left officers with an uneasy set of choices to make. While there are methods that can be employed, it takes much more in the way of logistics and timing to work. Plenty of things can happen between the time the order is given and the actual execution. So Police Command made a decision. Whether it was the right or wrong one to make will be reviewed and discussed. Yet, the one curious thought process that has not existed on this thread is: "What could the Police have done to resolve the situation without any more problems to the public"? Yeah, its easy to bash a leader's decision when your not the one with the responsibility in making it. Try being a leader in that situation, and let me know how easy it is RealOne? After all, that's the basis of your 'argument'. That if you had been there, things would have been fine (the target apprehended without lost to the public). I like to hear your 'argument'. Because your answer, if you have guts to state it, will be picked aparted at length. You thought it fun to attack those police officers, didnt you? Now the shoe is on the other foot. I predict you'll slink back into the shadows rather than take my challenge up. Just like the rest of your 'supporters' on here....

thompsonx -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/20/2015 2:23:36 PM)
quote: "What could the Police have done to resolve the situation without any more problems to the public"? What do you think caused the driver to go the wrong way in traffic? It would make sense he was trying to evade his persuers. How about they stop chasing the fool. The helicopter can hover a mile high and not be heard. Track the fool and arrest him when he is on foot. But then where is the fun for the "elephant hunter" if the elephant is shot while taking a nap?

joether -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/20/2015 6:25:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: "What could the Police have done to resolve the situation without any more problems to the public"? What do you think caused the driver to go the wrong way in traffic? It would make sense he was trying to evade his persuers. How about they stop chasing the fool. The helicopter can hover a mile high and not be heard. Track the fool and arrest him when he is on foot. But then where is the fun for the "elephant hunter" if the elephant is shot while taking a nap? How does a helicopter a mile away from the target, arrest them? You need people on the ground to make the arrest. Second, it is not hard to evade a helicopter that at that distance; one just needs to break line of sight for 10-20 seconds. Third, not all criminals are stupid; assuming such is a good way to get yourself or others killed. The problem with your idea is the public would roast you alive for abandoning a chase with a deadly individual. In other words, you'll be looking for a new job by the end of the business day.

thompsonx -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/20/2015 6:40:38 PM)
ORIGINAL: joether quote: How does a helicopter a mile away from the target, arrest them? Do you just open your mouth to change feet? quote: You need people on the ground to make the arrest. Second, it is not hard to evade a helicopter that at that distance; one just needs to break line of sight for 10-20 seconds. I am unconvined that a helocoptor with a radio and ground units deployed with video monitors in all the ground units and the helocopter connected tactically by radio would be the looser in your game of cops and robbers. quote: Third, not all criminals are stupid; assuming such is a good way to get yourself or others killed. It takes a real genuis to try to outrun a motorola. quote: The problem with your idea is the public would roast you alive for abandoning a chase with a deadly individual. In other words, you'll be looking for a new job by the end of the business day. That would be your ignorant,unsubstantiated and poorly thought out opinion.

joether -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/21/2015 12:31:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx ORIGINAL: joether quote: How does a helicopter a mile away from the target, arrest them? Do you just open your mouth to change feet? No, its called sarcasm. You made a produced a dumb argument, so I made fun of it. Kind of hard to arrest someone from a mile a way. Its called 'physics'. A concept you apparently know nothing about.... quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: You need people on the ground to make the arrest. Second, it is not hard to evade a helicopter that at that distance; one just needs to break line of sight for 10-20 seconds. I am unconvined that a helocoptor with a radio and ground units deployed with video monitors in all the ground units and the helocopter connected tactically by radio would be the looser in your game of cops and robbers. 'Deployed ground units' implies they are stopped in a fixed position. 'Mobile units' is the concept your looking for if you speaking tactically. But if mobile units were nearby, how is that different from what the officers were doing, that you took offense on? Yes, a helicopter is a great asset in a chase. However it has limitations. Someone evading the police copter simply has to move in a direction to which the helicopter can not view and they have escaped. An area with clothing that can easily be swapped. Just takes a jacket and a hat and POOF, they are 'disguised' from that helicopter. When leaving that 'line of sight blockage', the move way at a normal pace. It does happen. quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Third, not all criminals are stupid; assuming such is a good way to get yourself or others killed. It takes a real genuis to try to outrun a motorola. Or just one localized EMP blast..... Using simply electronic systems you could effectively neutralize communication devices within a three block area. Doesn't take much knowledge to create or employ such a device. Someone that their exit points mapped out, will have ways of neutralizing their pursuers. Which is why the intelligent and study criminals get away. quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: The problem with your idea is the public would roast you alive for abandoning a chase with a deadly individual. In other words, you'll be looking for a new job by the end of the business day. That would be your ignorant,unsubstantiated and poorly thought out opinion. No, that would be how the public reacts. "Why were you not in close proximity to the criminal? Why did you do nothing about the situation? Why did you let him go against the follow of traffic? Why didn't you stop the flow of traffic further down the road?" Yeah, you would get nailed. Shortly after your dumb comments, the public through the government, removes you from your job. Want to keep playing these silly games? Or simply admit you have no clue how to handle the situation?

thompsonx -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/21/2015 2:57:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether No, its called sarcasm. You made a produced a dumb argument, so I made fun of it. Kind of hard to arrest someone from a mile a way. Its called 'physics'. A concept you apparently know nothing about.... You wish to act the fool by beliving that the helicopter is the only cop in the situation...That is a classic example of someone opening their mouth for the express purpose of changing feet. quote: 'Deployed ground units' implies they are stopped in a fixed position. That would be your ignorant,unsubstantiated opinion, devoid of any rational thought. quote: Someone evading the police copter simply has to move in a direction to which the helicopter can not view and they have escaped. An area with clothing that can easily be swapped. Just takes a jacket and a hat and POOF, they are 'disguised' from that helicopter. When leaving that 'line of sight blockage', the move way at a normal pace. It does happen. Cite please quote: It takes a real genuis to try to outrun a motorola. quote: Or just one localized EMP blast..... Just where did "buck rodgers" get this toy...wallmart? quote: Using simply electronic systems you could effectively neutralize communication devices within a three block area. Doesn't take much knowledge to create or employ such a device. Cite please quote: No, that would be how the public reacts. This would be your ignorant,unsubstantiated opinion...worth the value of used shit paper until you can find some way to support this feeble minded fantasy. quote: Want to keep playing these silly games? It is silly for you to post up this nonsense. I have nothing to do and lots of time to do it. As a result I will point out your ignorance and foolishness regularly.

MercTech -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/21/2015 3:46:31 PM)
A helicopter side tracking just above the level of tracking with a rifle or shotgun pointing at me would get me to stop. Then, again, I'm not mentally challenged enough to go the wrong way down a divided highway in attempt to evade pursuit. I do think firing from a helicopter at a target on a crowded highway is quite reckless. I would have thought SOP would be more like having traffic stopped a couple of miles out and road block.

thompsonx -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/21/2015 4:02:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech A helicopter side tracking just above the level of tracking with a rifle or shotgun pointing at me would get me to stop. Then, again, I'm not mentally challenged enough to go the wrong way down a divided highway in attempt to evade pursuit. I do think firing from a helicopter at a target on a crowded highway is quite reckless. I would have thought SOP would be more like having traffic stopped a couple of miles out and road block. "Elephant hunters" don't care about public safety.

joether -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/22/2015 10:44:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: ORIGINAL: joether No, its called sarcasm. You made a produced a dumb argument, so I made fun of it. Kind of hard to arrest someone from a mile a way. Its called 'physics'. A concept you apparently know nothing about.... You wish to act the fool by beliving that the helicopter is the only cop in the situation...That is a classic example of someone opening their mouth for the express purpose of changing feet. Your the one who stated the following: "How about they stop chasing the fool. The helicopter can hover a mile high and not be heard. Track the fool and arrest him when he is on foot." Your the one making the argument that the police should 'pull back its forces' and let only the helicopter chase the person. How does a helicopter arrest someone from a mile away, thereby removing the dangerous person from the roadways on which people are traveling? You have yet to actually explain how this process works in operation yet. Maybe you should be bitching at yourself about feet. You seem to have a huge foot fetish..... quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: 'Deployed ground units' implies they are stopped in a fixed position. That would be your ignorant,unsubstantiated opinion, devoid of any rational thought. No, that would be the United States Military's understanding of troops in a fixed position. If your in a fixed position, your not moving. Police use the same tactics, since many of them are former military. How about instead of your immature comments, you try LEARNING SOMETHING FUCKING USEFUL, before stating it? There, I put it in BOLD in the hopes your feeble mind might understand something.... quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Someone evading the police copter simply has to move in a direction to which the helicopter can not view and they have escaped. An area with clothing that can easily be swapped. Just takes a jacket and a hat and POOF, they are 'disguised' from that helicopter. When leaving that 'line of sight blockage', the move way at a normal pace. It does happen. Cite please How do I cite something that is perfectly understood to anyone that has studied infantry and/or squad tactics? You remove 'line of sight' from your enemy; thereby removes their ability to keep an eye on your position, movements, and actions. In doing so, allows you the opportunity to perform any number of actions that might catch your enemy off guard. In this particular case, evading away under cover of obstacles that block 'Line of Sight' long enough to 'change one's description' from, "guy wearing white jacket" to "someone walking away with a blue jacket and brown hat on". It would take the police a few minutes to figure out how the suspect got away in those 10-20 seconds they were not being observed by a helicopter from "...a mile away." (your words). quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: It takes a real genuis to try to outrun a motorola. quote: Or just one localized EMP blast..... Just where did "buck rodgers" get this toy...wallmart? You don't buy it, you make it. A jamming system is not hard to produce if you have the electronics background. Or know someone with such skills. Yes, possession of one is...VERY...illegal. But hey, if your already on the run for breaking a law to which the police are in pursuit and they'll add on twenty additional laws 'for the hell of it' that you broke; what do you have to lose? quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Using simply electronic systems you could effectively neutralize communication devices within a three block area. Doesn't take much knowledge to create or employ such a device. Cite please Your understanding of technology must be very limited not to understand this stuff. To explain it so you can understand, would take a few days. quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: No, that would be how the public reacts. This would be your ignorant,unsubstantiated opinion...worth the value of used shit paper until you can find some way to support this feeble minded fantasy. That would be your opinion, of my studied opinion, on how the public would react to your moronic attempts to deal with a serious problem. Your the one bitching at the police for not dealing with the situation correctly. You do not seem to understand squad tactics (because you would know what a fixed position was and wasn't). And still as of yet, come up with a half decent method of dealing with the situation those police were in. In all honesty, there was not a tactic they could employ without tipping off the person they were chasing to their tactics. Whatever action they took had to be immediate and left very little ability of their prey to resist or counter their action. Was shooting the vehicle the best thing they could have done at the time? Maybe, maybe not. But your not offering up any valid or useful alternatives. quote: ORIGINAL: thompsonx quote: Want to keep playing these silly games? It is silly for you to post up this nonsense. I have nothing to do and lots of time to do it. As a result I will point out your ignorance and foolishness regularly. Silly eh? I'm the only one between the two of us stating rational concepts that exist in the real world. You are butt hurt that I destroyed your initial 'idea' using common sense on how the other guy might deal with the tactic. So rather than try something new, you tear into me in an immature manner to defend your position. What's wrong, to ignorant to think up something else?

joether -> RE: Police shooting vehicles from helicopters (9/22/2015 10:50:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech A helicopter side tracking just above the level of tracking with a rifle or shotgun pointing at me would get me to stop. Then, again, I'm not mentally challenged enough to go the wrong way down a divided highway in attempt to evade pursuit. You might be surprised how a good plan screws up with just one wrong turn down the wrong roadway.... quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech I do think firing from a helicopter at a target on a crowded highway is quite reckless. I would have thought SOP would be more like having traffic stopped a couple of miles out and road block. So your flying down the road at 60-80 mph. Dodging left and right of on coming traffic. The police are being slowed behind you because they are not as psychotic as you. All of a sudden, there is no traffic in front of you for a mile. At the end of that mile are a pile of police cars and stopped traffic behind them. Do you: A ) Keep moving to the awaiting police, stopping so they can arrest you? B ) Seek an alternative route, thereby leaving the chance you get away? Once the police stop traffic; they are showing their 'hand of cards' to their prey. The prey will choose option 'B'.

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