Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful.


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/26/2015 7:01:10 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		Two instances of the overriding profit motive. That such a business model can turn out to be very costly to society, doesn't seem to matter...for the govt. either.

The jury found J&J hid important safety information it had, showing Risperdal caused breast growth in boys, teens and men. $2.5 mill. to just one guy.

As reported by Bloomberg, Johnson & Johnson will pay a $2.2 billion Risperdal settlement to resolve criminal and civil charges that the company promoted its antipsychotic for unapproved uses and paid millions in kickbacks to nursing homes and physicians.

After illegal promotions and kinkbacks to Omnicare, Janssen pled guilty to a single misdemeanor violation of the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act for past promotional practices of Risperdal, the company admits no liability or wrongdoing and denies all allegations cited in the government’s civil action. Not bad hey ?

Adding it up as of today, $20 billion domestic, $$10 billion foreign sales with about $3 billion in fines and settlements mean such crime...does pay. We are talking 10 cents on the dollar. Newly elected CEO and the person who was in charge of marketing the drug in these ways ? Alex Gorsky, who was rewarded by being elevated to C.E.O. of J&J. He earned $25 million last year. Seems he deserved all of that pay.

More success:

General Motors agreed to pay $900 million and submit to a monitor in a deal with the government in which it admits that a deadly problem with small-car ignition switches was hidden from the public for over a decade, authorities announced Thursday.

HERE

The agreement calls for two criminal charges to be dismissed after three years if the automaker cooperates fully.

HERE

Now I am sure a good raise and a real good bonus is in order when you can go 10 years with defects, sell billion$ in cars with known defective parts, cause as many now as over 300 deaths and get...clean away with for pennies on the dollar.

I wonder if Wharton will take this up in classes ?
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/26/2015 7:16:36 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Not to mention VW with their emissions bullshit, that IS some serious shit.
The guy with the toxoplasmosis drug, putting the cost of a pill up 4000% from 13.50 to 750$ each, what a scabby ballsack.
Johnson and Johnson have fucked over nearly a generation of kids not to mention seniors.
And people will use it as a way to say that the EPA and FDA are not doing their jobs.
who is it keeps cutting their funding.
Scummy companies like these SHOULD be shown up for the asswipes they are, get jailed, and suffer the bloody consequences.





_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/26/2015 8:30:48 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Not to mention VW with their emissions bullshit, that IS some serious shit.
The guy with the toxoplasmosis drug, putting the cost of a pill up 4000% from 13.50 to 750$ each, what a scabby ballsack.
Johnson and Johnson have fucked over nearly a generation of kids not to mention seniors.
And people will use it as a way to say that the EPA and FDA are not doing their jobs.
who is it keeps cutting their funding.
Scummy companies like these SHOULD be shown up for the asswipes they are, get jailed, and suffer the bloody consequences.



Personally though, I believe that the FDA is the second most corrupt agency in the US govt. after the CIA. They will not even properly research anything that cannot patented. That way the public, the doctors and research stays away from homeopathic or allopathic cures and in fact, label their proponents as quacks.

On the same subject but different area, I have a real problem with cancer. MSK (Memorial Sloan Kettering) cured cancer in 1896 and...now that can't ? Science has progressed unimaginably over 100 years but cancer research has not ?

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/27/2015 3:43:32 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Two instances of the overriding profit motive. That such a business model can turn out to be very costly to society, doesn't seem to matter...for the govt. either.
The jury found J&J hid important safety information it had, showing Risperdal caused breast growth in boys, teens and men. $2.5 mill. to just one guy.
As reported by Bloomberg, Johnson & Johnson will pay a $2.2 billion Risperdal settlement to resolve criminal and civil charges that the company promoted its antipsychotic for unapproved uses and paid millions in kickbacks to nursing homes and physicians.
After illegal promotions and kinkbacks to Omnicare, Janssen pled guilty to a single misdemeanor violation of the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act for past promotional practices of Risperdal, the company admits no liability or wrongdoing and denies all allegations cited in the government’s civil action. Not bad hey ?
Adding it up as of today, $20 billion domestic, $$10 billion foreign sales with about $3 billion in fines and settlements mean such crime...does pay. We are talking 10 cents on the dollar. Newly elected CEO and the person who was in charge of marketing the drug in these ways ? Alex Gorsky, who was rewarded by being elevated to C.E.O. of J&J. He earned $25 million last year. Seems he deserved all of that pay.
More success:
General Motors agreed to pay $900 million and submit to a monitor in a deal with the government in which it admits that a deadly problem with small-car ignition switches was hidden from the public for over a decade, authorities announced Thursday.
HERE
The agreement calls for two criminal charges to be dismissed after three years if the automaker cooperates fully.
HERE
Now I am sure a good raise and a real good bonus is in order when you can go 10 years with defects, sell billion$ in cars with known defective parts, cause as many now as over 300 deaths and get...clean away with for pennies on the dollar.
I wonder if Wharton will take this up in classes ?


First of all, the $900M is to settle with the Fed's. They are also setting up a $575M to settle with civil lawsuits. There is also the cost of the recall/repairs they are footing. I think I read that the recall is going to end up costing them somewhere around $3B, and Toyota's recall over the acceleration problem cost them $1.8B. I read those (numbers may be switched between Toyota and GM) while reading about the VW recall. IIRC, the VW recall could cost up to $8B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
Not to mention VW with their emissions bullshit, that IS some serious shit.


This was more of an attempt to get around regulations. The cars weren't unsafe for humans to drive. The GM and Toyota problems were unsafe to drive. You could die directly from those issues.

quote:

The guy with the toxoplasmosis drug, putting the cost of a pill up 4000% from 13.50 to 750$ each, what a scabby ballsack.


Total dick move. And, he's going to end up paying for it, too.

[quoteJohnson and Johnson have fucked over nearly a generation of kids not to mention seniors.
And people will use it as a way to say that the EPA and FDA are not doing their jobs.
who is it keeps cutting their funding.
Scummy companies like these SHOULD be shown up for the asswipes they are, get jailed, and suffer the bloody consequences.

Yup, and that's part of the reason we will always need some government intervention. "Free Market" supporters, by and large, understand the role government has to play in the markets, regardless of what some (not pointing fingers at anyone specific) on here claim.

FR,

Here's a question: why do these companies need to pay fines to the Federal Government? Are the the "injured party?" Are the fines simply to recoup the Fed's costs of investigations? What will the Fed's do with the fines?

I can see fines paid to the Fed to cover the Fed's costs for investigations, but not much more than that. Any other sort of fine should go to those who actually suffered from these actions. For instance, those who died from the GM ignition issue should be paid (and they will be). And, those that are inconvenienced by their vehicles being recalled should be paid restitution (if that's not also part of the recall deal).


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/27/2015 4:29:50 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		if I can speak in broad general terms as opposed to specifically to the cases mentioned:

do you somehow think that these two instances are somehow a scathing and essential indictment on an entire system?

here’s the thing I see---if youre upset that people are hurt by these practices? I can agree.

if im reading that rightly, then what about all the people, now and throughout history who have been tremendously helped under capitalism? And the countless millions who have suffered to a far greater extent under other economic systems?

One of the major differences between liberals and conservatives is the former want equality of outcomes while the latter want equality of opportunity. Unfortunately, the equality of outcomes doesn’t occur without state force violating people’s freedom, and it never leads to as much growth and production of the quality of products and services that people need and want in their lives, and not to mention individual growth and expression. so many liberals just never seem to be able to accept that. is it possible they don’t care about people as much as they say they do, or that they just have a built in incapability of competing in the free market world?

Here’s a nice webpage that touches very poignantly on your implied criticisms:

http://www.pragcap.com/in-defense-of-capitalism/

quote:

A reader emailed me this piece tonight calling for the elimination of capitalism based on 6 points. This is an argument that I have seen cropping up increasingly with time so I felt a proper rebuttal was necessary. I offered my responses in bold:

•Amorality – increase of individual and corporate wealth is the only core principle of capitalism. Recognition of any social concern or relationship to the natural world that transcends the goal of increasing capital accumulation is extrinsic to the system.

CR: This is a broad generalization intended to demonize all capitalists. Individual or corporate wealth is not the “only core principle of capitalism”. Yes, it’s true that there are some capitalists who view the world through this prism, but there are a great many more who view themselves as part of society and utilize the power of the capitalist system to give back to society by providing goods and services that benefit society. The beauty of the capitalist system is that it rewards those who give much to society. The best and most prominent capitalists understand that great rewards can only be achieved through giving much back. Clearly, this is not always the case, but let’s be careful about sweeping generalizations here….



I don't know enough about the 750 dollar a pill situation specifically, but in general here are some considerations:

some drugs are hugely expensive to make to the point of many millions of dollars.

prices can be artificially inflated because of the government insurance programs involved in the market.

a generic version of this medication can be created and marketed and so there is an opportunity for someone right there.

engaged and informed consumers can choose to not do business with that company.


< Message edited by bounty44 -- 9/27/2015 4:32:18 AM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/27/2015 6:47:34 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		"How does a pill go from $13.50 to $750 overnight?"

among other things:

quote:

He says the price increase is justified by the fact that Daraprim is seldom used, and almost never for more than a year, so he's simply pricing it in line with other drugs for rare diseases, reports the New York Times...

"The price per course of treatment to save your life was only $1,000 and we know these days, [with] modern pharmaceuticals, cancer drugs can cost $100,000 or more, rare disease drugs can cost half a million dollars," Mr. Shkreli tells Bloomberg. "Daraprim is still underpriced relative to its peers."

He’s correct that drugs prescribed for rare diseases are often extremely expensive. Cancer medications often cost more $100,000 a year, with some exceeding $150,000. Cycloserine, a tuberculosis medication, now costs $10,800 for 30 pills, a drastic increase from its previous $500 price tag. The antibiotic Doxycycline was $20 a bottle in October 2013, but by April 2014, it was $1,849."...

As the public becomes more aware of the unfettered hikes in drug prices, lawmakers are turning up the pressure on pharmaceutical companies to be more transparent...

Pharmaceutical companies often cite the cost of research and development and insist that transparency disclosure requirements would be both costly to comply with and ineffective. Critics, however, suspect the high cost of drugs is due to a veiled – and unchecked – pursuit for profit.


http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2015/0922/How-does-a-pill-go-from-13.50-to-750-overnight

(in reply to bounty44)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/27/2015 4:22:35 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
On the same subject but different area, I have a real problem with cancer. MSK (Memorial Sloan Kettering) cured cancer in 1896 and...now that can't ? Science has progressed unimaginably over 100 years but cancer research has not ?


Just to give an example of wealthy capitalist pigs going for the almighty dollar and not giving back:

Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Treatment Center
    quote:

    Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center is composed of two related institutions: Memorial Hospital for Cancer and Allied Diseases, providing patient care, and Sloan Kettering Institute, focused on basic-science research.

    Memorial Hospital was founded in 1884 as the New York Cancer Hospital by a group that included John Jacob Astor and his wife Charlotte; the hospital was originally located on the Upper West Side of Manhattan.[2] The hospital was later renamed General Memorial Hospital for the Treatment of Cancer and Allied Diseases.[3] Rose Hawthorne, daughter of author Nathaniel Hawthorne, trained here in the summer of 1896 before founding her own order, Dominican Sisters of Hawthorne.[4] In 1936, John D. Rockefeller, Jr. donated land on York Avenue and in 1939 the institution moved to that location.[3]

    In the 1940s, Alfred P. Sloan and Charles F. Kettering donated money to create the Sloan Kettering Institute.[3] Built adjacent to Memorial Hospital, it could bring together the institute's research with the hospital's clinical care.


Four big names pop up in that History, all of whom donated to the hospital...


ETA: The story behind Coley's Toxins was very interesting. Thanks for mentioning MSK. If you read the article, I think you'll see why that modality fell by the wayside. It's too bad, too.

< Message edited by DesideriScuri -- 9/27/2015 4:26:04 PM >

_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/27/2015 9:22:55 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
On the same subject but different area, I have a real problem with cancer. MSK (Memorial Sloan Kettering) cured cancer in 1896 and...now that can't ? Science has progressed unimaginably over 100 years but cancer research has not ?


Just to give an example of wealthy capitalist pigs going for the almighty dollar and not giving back:

Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Treatment Center
    quote:

    Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center is composed of two related institutions: Memorial Hospital for Cancer and Allied Diseases, providing patient care, and Sloan Kettering Institute, focused on basic-science research.

    Memorial Hospital was founded in 1884 as the New York Cancer Hospital by a group that included John Jacob Astor and his wife Charlotte; the hospital was originally located on the Upper West Side of Manhattan.[2] The hospital was later renamed General Memorial Hospital for the Treatment of Cancer and Allied Diseases.[3] Rose Hawthorne, daughter of author Nathaniel Hawthorne, trained here in the summer of 1896 before founding her own order, Dominican Sisters of Hawthorne.[4] In 1936, John D. Rockefeller, Jr. donated land on York Avenue and in 1939 the institution moved to that location.[3]

    In the 1940s, Alfred P. Sloan and Charles F. Kettering donated money to create the Sloan Kettering Institute.[3] Built adjacent to Memorial Hospital, it could bring together the institute's research with the hospital's clinical care.


Four big names pop up in that History, all of whom donated to the hospital...


ETA: The story behind Coley's Toxins was very interesting. Thanks for mentioning MSK. If you read the article, I think you'll see why that modality fell by the wayside. It's too bad, too.

The so-called giving back is more accurately called and since that time...Efficiency in Philanthropy. That means they gave money where they could get back $2 or more for every dollar they gave.

What happened was back then, (19th cent.) there was no certified course of study to become an MD. (the AMA predates MSK and was incorp. in 1897) The millions given served two purposes. First they designed the medical education system to steer the entire medical profession away from homeopathic or allopathic medicine based on more natural cure and the education regime steered doctors toward treatments to the pharmaceutical form of cures but almost exclusively...treatment only. They were trained to prescribe a pill for everything.

This resulted in both a complete educational break from herbs and diet to a concentration on prescribing pills which in hand, help take pharma to big pharm.

As evidence, one only need to look at directors of both the AMA, MSK and others which have bd. directors from big pharma. For one example, on the BoD of MSK is member from the BoD of Bristol-Meyers. Why ? Out every $1 of profit made on chemo therapy B-M makes 40 cents. Billion$ !! So they don't want any part of or want the establishment to allow any natural cures for cancer, i.e.,...that can't be patented.

They are long but view these with an open mind and you too will agree just as in scurvy where ascorbic acid was the stuff of quacks, yet we know now, the cure just as other diseases were cured with diet and herbs. You will also conclude that the FDA is in the pocket of big pharma.

Proper herbs and vegetation prevents cancer: HERE

Proper treatment cures cancer: HERE

There is so much more, like the Hoxey diet and treatment, the Essiac treatment from Rene Caisse.

There are literally 100,000's if not millions by now that have been cured of cancer, almost all...outside the US.

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/27/2015 9:38:34 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		Well gee, here I am getting ready for my visit this Wednesday with my wonderful oncologist who treating my cancer.

I should print out this page and show it to him. As a research oriented oncologist I am sure he will agree that you guys know FAR more about cancer treatment than him.

Oh, forgot to mention he's at Memorial Sloan Kettering.

Not to blow your generalizations up or anything, but they do actually have an Integrated Health division that patients are recommended to, including nutrition and supplementation.

I won't even address the links you provided about veggies and herbs curing cancer.

Not every kind of cancer responds to everything, including traditional drug treatment.

I never come to Politics and Religion unless I want a good laugh, but since you mentioned my hospital which has treated me with kindness, respect, caring and thoughtful and flexible treatments, I felt I should jump in.

Unless you yourself or your loved ones have cancer, do me a colossal favor and shut the fuck up.






< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 9/27/2015 9:40:07 PM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/28/2015 3:37:35 AM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Well gee, here I am getting ready for my visit this Wednesday with my wonderful oncologist who treating my cancer.

I should print out this page and show it to him. As a research oriented oncologist I am sure he will agree that you guys know FAR more about cancer treatment than him.

Oh, forgot to mention he's at Memorial Sloan Kettering.

Not to blow your generalizations up or anything, but they do actually have an Integrated Health division that patients are recommended to, including nutrition and supplementation.

I won't even address the links you provided about veggies and herbs curing cancer.

Not every kind of cancer responds to everything, including traditional drug treatment.

I never come to Politics and Religion unless I want a good laugh, but since you mentioned my hospital which has treated me with kindness, respect, caring and thoughtful and flexible treatments, I felt I should jump in.

Unless you yourself or your loved ones have cancer, do me a colossal favor and shut the fuck up.



Now here I am just trying to give you and anyone else who cares to do the research, a little info. You tell me I am to bite my tongue when after a 16 yr. old daughter of a woman I was dating had cancer and mother did in fact do the research. Only to find that the Dr. she was about to take her daughter to see who had cured a younger boy, whose tumor was diagnosed by the Mayo Clinic as giving him 6-9 months to live and yet was alive tumor free...several years prior and without any generalizations.

Little did she know that before she could get her daughter to that DR., the FDA subsequently stormed his office, took all of his records...cleaning out virtually everything. And even after two subsequent federal court orders to have them returned, the FDA still refused. She now blames the govt. for her daughter's death and before she was 18.

So if you wish to not view, ignore or just blow off these documentaries and have yourself and your insurance co. remain a very profitable part of the cancer industrial complex...that's your choice. You have my deepest sympathies...on both counts.

HERE

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 9/28/2015 3:54:32 AM >

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/28/2015 2:12:30 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Now here I am just trying to give you and anyone else who cares to do the research, a little info. You tell me I am to bite my tongue when after a 16 yr. old daughter of a woman I was dating had cancer and mother did in fact do the research. Only to find that the Dr. she was about to take her daughter to see who had cured a younger boy, whose tumor was diagnosed by the Mayo Clinic as giving him 6-9 months to live and yet was alive tumor free...several years prior and without any generalizations.

Little did she know that before she could get her daughter to that DR., the FDA subsequently stormed his office, took all of his records...cleaning out virtually everything. And even after two subsequent federal court orders to have them returned, the FDA still refused. She now blames the govt. for her daughter's death and before she was 18.

So if you wish to not view, ignore or just blow off these documentaries and have yourself and your insurance co. remain a very profitable part of the cancer industrial complex...that's your choice. You have my deepest sympathies...on both counts.

HERE

I have wondered what treatment(s) Steve Jobs underwent and what he could have done differently that might have allowed him to survive..

I agree that in the US the sickness industry is very profitable.. and while doctors can seem to be caring and all that, they are simply doing what the sickness education industry has taught them to do.. Few doctors have the time or inclination to do their own research, etc.. Doctors take instruction on drugs from Big Pharma, after all.. and they are given a sales job/con on the drugs and even bribed to prescribe certain drugs (which is also why drugs in the US cost so much more, bribing Docs, the govt etc costs money!)..

I do think that what we eat (over processed foods) is a major factor in all sorts of sicknesses.. I know this for a fact in my own health..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/28/2015 2:16:32 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Now here I am just trying to give you and anyone else who cares to do the research, a little info. You tell me I am to bite my tongue when after a 16 yr. old daughter of a woman I was dating had cancer and mother did in fact do the research. Only to find that the Dr. she was about to take her daughter to see who had cured a younger boy, whose tumor was diagnosed by the Mayo Clinic as giving him 6-9 months to live and yet was alive tumor free...several years prior and without any generalizations.

Little did she know that before she could get her daughter to that DR., the FDA subsequently stormed his office, took all of his records...cleaning out virtually everything. And even after two subsequent federal court orders to have them returned, the FDA still refused. She now blames the govt. for her daughter's death and before she was 18.

So if you wish to not view, ignore or just blow off these documentaries and have yourself and your insurance co. remain a very profitable part of the cancer industrial complex...that's your choice. You have my deepest sympathies...on both counts.

HERE

I have wondered what treatment(s) Steve Jobs underwent and what he could have done differently that might have allowed him to survive..

I agree that in the US the sickness industry is very profitable.. and while doctors can seem to be caring and all that, they are simply doing what the sickness education industry has taught them to do.. Few doctors have the time or inclination to do their own research, etc.. Doctors take instruction on drugs from Big Pharma, after all.. and they are given a sales job/con on the drugs and even bribed to prescribe certain drugs (which is also why drugs in the US cost so much more, bribing Docs, the govt etc costs money!)..

I do think that what we eat (over processed foods) is a major factor in all sorts of sicknesses.. I know this for a fact in my own health..

Absolutely. And if you peruse the link above, they go into detail on diet, how its changed (what's available) and what we should do about it.

...and what surprised me that with Job's money, he could have gone anywhere to get cured and even said he was going to use all of his resources and everything available to him to...try and survive

< Message edited by MrRodgers -- 9/28/2015 2:46:17 PM >

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/29/2015 12:17:35 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Absolutely. And if you peruse the link above, they go into detail on diet, how its changed (what's available) and what we should do about it.

...and what surprised me that with Job's money, he could have gone anywhere to get cured and even said he was going to use all of his resources and everything available to him to...try and survive

it may have been that he found out too late for whatever he tried to work.. there is really a lot of conflicting info out there regarding cancer.. The doctors that go against what they have been taught thru years of brainwashing.. er, I mean education/training and treat their patients looking at the whole picture and changing their patients diets are called quacks.. so its pretty hard to find those doctors as few want to have that label slapped on their backs.. I have downloaded various books on cancer and diet but have not gotten a chance yet to read up on them..

So many people have told me that they "eat healthy" but when i look at their diet and what they eat, its full of processed food.. people have the idea that if you dont eat "junk food" very much that you have a healthy diet... not so!

Ya know, until now, you didnt strike me as the militant foodie type..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/29/2015 7:48:52 PM   
MercTech


Posts: 3706
Joined: 7/4/2006
Status: offline 		Contrary to pop jargon; "cancer" is not a disease but a symptom. "Cancer" refers to runaway cell growth. Different types of diseases that have cancer symptoms have different causes and treatments. Some are viral in origin. Some are caused by chemical exposure. Some have genetic links. Some are caused by radiation. (Excessive sunbathing and exposure to UV causes melanoma - skin cancer) A "cure" for one type of cancer doesn't mean there is a universal cancer cure. Thyroid cancer is readily treated by I-131 treatment. No one really has a successful treatment for pancreatic cancer. Cancer of the bone marrow (leukemia) is a bout a 50/50 proposition for treatment. Sloane Kettering had their first successes with cancer treatment in the late 1800s. That doesn't mean they could cure all diseases that manifest as cancer. Ok, resetting the soapbox.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The real thing to remember about corporate entities is that other than as a legal fiction they ARE NOT PEOPLE. A corporation has no conscience, little memory past the last quarterly report, no morals, no empathy, and no ethics. A large corporation, when complex enough, takes on the characteristics of a life form. Like slime molds, a large corporation exists only to grow and get into everything it can. Citizens must be vigilant to prune back excessive growth in the corporate members of our society lest they become a cancer on the body politic. Any corporation that thinks they are "too big to fail" needs a serious pruning.

Has anyone cloned Teddy Roosevelt yet? <grin>

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/29/2015 8:01:15 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

Two instances of the overriding profit motive. That such a business model can turn out to be very costly to society, doesn't seem to matter...for the govt. either.




How about the criminal FDA?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAMYAoiCSsI


Hiding, suppressing, oppressing and destroying peoples lives to protect their cash cow?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2gRCL0hVVY

they even stole his patents!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBUGVkmmwbk

How the hell does this happen in a country that has 3 branches of gubblemint to (cough) watch over and keep each other in check!




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/29/2015 8:13:36 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Contrary to pop jargon; "cancer" is not a disease but a symptom. "Cancer" refers to runaway cell growth. Different types of diseases that have cancer symptoms have different causes and treatments. Some are viral in origin. Some are caused by chemical exposure. Some have genetic links. Some are caused by radiation. (Excessive sunbathing and exposure to UV causes melanoma - skin cancer) A "cure" for one type of cancer doesn't mean there is a universal cancer cure. Thyroid cancer is readily treated by I-131 treatment. No one really has a successful treatment for pancreatic cancer. Cancer of the bone marrow (leukemia) is a bout a 50/50 proposition for treatment. Sloane Kettering had their first successes with cancer treatment in the late 1800s. That doesn't mean they could cure all diseases that manifest as cancer. Ok, resetting the soapbox.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The real thing to remember about corporate entities is that other than as a legal fiction they ARE NOT PEOPLE. A corporation has no conscience, little memory past the last quarterly report, no morals, no empathy, and no ethics. A large corporation, when complex enough, takes on the characteristics of a life form. Like slime molds, a large corporation exists only to grow and get into everything it can. Citizens must be vigilant to prune back excessive growth in the corporate members of our society lest they become a cancer on the body politic. Any corporation that thinks they are "too big to fail" needs a serious pruning.

Has anyone cloned Teddy Roosevelt yet? <grin>

Cancer is a chronic metabolic disease. At no time in history has science created a cure for this type of disease.

Cancer is in not what you get but...what you don't get. That means...proper nutrition, i.e., the right compounds found in your diet such as vitamins and supplements if necessary. With them, you do not get cancer...any cancer. Cancer is a disease, tumors are a symptom.

But the for-profit crowd both in the medical community and govt. only allows treatment to either, burn, cut or poison it out...failing at best 95 out of 100 cases.

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/29/2015 8:25:29 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

At no time in history has science created a cure for this type of disease.


Which science?

Natural-Homeopathic or Pharma-Osteopathic?

we must have cross posted, since there are several well documented cancer cures, the problem is mysteriously few people know what they are. Take the time to review the above clips.








< Message edited by Real0ne -- 9/29/2015 8:30:38 PM >

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/29/2015 9:47:50 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Contrary to pop jargon; "cancer" is not a disease but a symptom. "Cancer" refers to runaway cell growth. Different types of diseases that have cancer symptoms have different causes and treatments. Some are viral in origin. Some are caused by chemical exposure. Some have genetic links. Some are caused by radiation. (Excessive sunbathing and exposure to UV causes melanoma - skin cancer) A "cure" for one type of cancer doesn't mean there is a universal cancer cure. Thyroid cancer is readily treated by I-131 treatment. No one really has a successful treatment for pancreatic cancer. Cancer of the bone marrow (leukemia) is a bout a 50/50 proposition for treatment. Sloane Kettering had their first successes with cancer treatment in the late 1800s. That doesn't mean they could cure all diseases that manifest as cancer. Ok, resetting the soapbox.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The real thing to remember about corporate entities is that other than as a legal fiction they ARE NOT PEOPLE. A corporation has no conscience, little memory past the last quarterly report, no morals, no empathy, and no ethics. A large corporation, when complex enough, takes on the characteristics of a life form. Like slime molds, a large corporation exists only to grow and get into everything it can. Citizens must be vigilant to prune back excessive growth in the corporate members of our society lest they become a cancer on the body politic. Any corporation that thinks they are "too big to fail" needs a serious pruning.

Has anyone cloned Teddy Roosevelt yet? <grin>

Cancer is a chronic metabolic disease. At no time in history has science created a cure for this type of disease.

Cancer is in not what you get but...what you don't get. That means...proper nutrition, i.e., the right compounds found in your diet such as vitamins and supplements if necessary. With them, you do not get cancer...any cancer. Cancer is a disease, tumors are a symptom.

But the for-profit crowd both in the medical community and govt. only allows treatment to either, burn, cut or poison it out...failing at best 95 out of 100 cases.


Again, you are speaking ignorantly. During my treatment, I have met many, many cancer patients who were vegans, never ate anything processed, two were marathon runners and others went to the gym daily. They didn't have diabetes, pre diabetes, high cholesterol, heart disease and everyone of us took and takes supplements.

Of course, we all have different types of cancer, including gynecological, which is hormone sensitive.

You, in your despicable attempt to make suffering cancer patients into a political issue, are ignoring the MOST BASIC OF FACTS. THAT NOT ALL CANCER RESPONDS TO EVERY TYPE OF DIET, VITAMINS, CHEMO, RADIATION, HORMONES OR SURGERY.

I also notice you totally ignored my statement that Sloan Kettering treats everyone HOLISTICALLY, meaning all or some of the above.

You are the worst type of person for a discussion of this magnitude. You rail against big pharma, corporate greed, etc., which is fine. But your absurd claims that all cancers can and should be treated the same is beyond ignorant and dangerous. You disrespect all cancer patients who have investigated many types of treatments and who are being treated and helped daily by caring physicians.

I am not ignorant to big pharma and their ways, along with insurance companies. My mother has a serious eye disease that requires a specific eye drop. It was $75/month which was hard enough for a senior citizen on a fixed income. This week, shevesd told by her pharmacist that her $75 drops are now $600 and her Medicare only pays $32. So give me a break.

For every bit of research you cite, I could find the opposite. I just refuse to engage you after this post.

i only hope if you get cancer, you find the right treatment FOR YOU.

Spare me your "deepest sympathies on both counts" passive aggressive crap.














< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 9/29/2015 9:52:36 PM >

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/29/2015 9:57:44 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

At no time in history has science created a cure for this type of disease.


Which science?

Natural-Homeopathic or Pharma-Osteopathic?

we must have cross posted, since there are several well documented cancer cures, the problem is mysteriously few people know what they are. Take the time to review the above clips.



Have you read my posts ? It is the homeopathic herbs and vitamins that can and has cured cancer. By science, I mean only a pill, created in the lab that of course...can be patented. Most of the informative links on this very subject above...are mine.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. - 9/29/2015 10:16:39 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers


quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

Contrary to pop jargon; "cancer" is not a disease but a symptom. "Cancer" refers to runaway cell growth. Different types of diseases that have cancer symptoms have different causes and treatments. Some are viral in origin. Some are caused by chemical exposure. Some have genetic links. Some are caused by radiation. (Excessive sunbathing and exposure to UV causes melanoma - skin cancer) A "cure" for one type of cancer doesn't mean there is a universal cancer cure. Thyroid cancer is readily treated by I-131 treatment. No one really has a successful treatment for pancreatic cancer. Cancer of the bone marrow (leukemia) is a bout a 50/50 proposition for treatment. Sloane Kettering had their first successes with cancer treatment in the late 1800s. That doesn't mean they could cure all diseases that manifest as cancer. Ok, resetting the soapbox.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The real thing to remember about corporate entities is that other than as a legal fiction they ARE NOT PEOPLE. A corporation has no conscience, little memory past the last quarterly report, no morals, no empathy, and no ethics. A large corporation, when complex enough, takes on the characteristics of a life form. Like slime molds, a large corporation exists only to grow and get into everything it can. Citizens must be vigilant to prune back excessive growth in the corporate members of our society lest they become a cancer on the body politic. Any corporation that thinks they are "too big to fail" needs a serious pruning.

Has anyone cloned Teddy Roosevelt yet? <grin>

Cancer is a chronic metabolic disease. At no time in history has science created a cure for this type of disease.

Cancer is in not what you get but...what you don't get. That means...proper nutrition, i.e., the right compounds found in your diet such as vitamins and supplements if necessary. With them, you do not get cancer...any cancer. Cancer is a disease, tumors are a symptom.

But the for-profit crowd both in the medical community and govt. only allows treatment to either, burn, cut or poison it out...failing at best 95 out of 100 cases.


Again, you are speaking ignorantly. During my treatment, I have met many, many cancer patients who were vegans, never ate anything processed, two were marathon runners and others went to the gym daily. They didn't have diabetes, pre diabetes, high cholesterol, heart disease and everyone of us took and takes supplements.

Of course, we all have different types of cancer, including gynecological, which is hormone sensitive.

You, in your despicable attempt to make suffering cancer patients into a political issue, are ignoring the MOST BASIC OF FACTS. THAT NOT ALL CANCER RESPONDS TO EVERY TYPE OF DIET, VITAMINS, CHEMO, RADIATION, HORMONES OR SURGERY.

I also notice you totally ignored my statement that Sloan Kettering treats everyone HOLISTICALLY, meaning all or some of the above.

You are the worst type of person for a discussion of this magnitude. You rail against big pharma, corporate greed, etc., which is fine. But your absurd claims that all cancers can and should be treated the same is beyond ignorant and dangerous. You disrespect all cancer patients who have investigated many types of treatments and who are being treated and helped daily by caring physicians.

I am not ignorant to big pharma and their ways, along with insurance companies. My mother has a serious eye disease that requires a specific eye drop. It was $75/month which was hard enough for a senior citizen on a fixed income. This week, shevesd told by her pharmacist that her $75 drops are now $600 and her Medicare only pays $32. So give me a break.

For every bit of research you cite, I could find the opposite. I just refuse to engage you after this post.

i only hope if you get cancer, you find the right treatment FOR YOU.

Spare me your "deepest sympathies on both counts" passive aggressive crap.



Look, there are whole communities that have a diet that includes 750 to 1500 mg of Amygdalin per week and have for ages. They live to be 90+, even father children in their 80's and have NO cancers. There are Indian tribes in America that have resisted the 'western' diet and cancer is extremely rare.

They have the actual breakdown in why we get cancer and it is the impregnable protein around the cancer cell. Amygdalin breaks down this protein and allows white blood cells to destroy the cancer. If Amygdalin is a regular part of the diet, cancer is not likely at all to appear. I am asking you to do the research, look at my links and know that MSK in fact cured cancer in the past. Yes, cured it.

As far as I know, as of this day, MSK is not allowed to prescribe Amygdalin. The clinicians in my links all have had herbal homeopathic cures to cancer and have all been shut down. Hoxsey fought the FDA and the AMA for over 20 years, sued and won a settlement with the AMA over libelous statements about him and his cure. He was jailed 120 times with no charges. Finally, on the same weekend years ago, the FDA shut down 17 of his clinics and he finally gave up.

Sadly, it is the govt. and the cancer treatments that the cancer industry uses and prohibits, yes, ban, that makes cancer a political as well as an economic issue.

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 20
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion >> Capitalist/corporatist business models...successful. Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109