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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 10/8/2015 3:01:55 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		Bollocks. Karloff will rise again.

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 10/9/2015 9:00:56 PM   
cloudboy


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This was a good read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/09/opinion/putins-imperial-adventure-in-syria.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region&_r=0

The USSR had a long history of supporting corrupt dictators in the region, and in some ways, Putin is trying to follow suit.

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 10/10/2015 4:40:28 PM   
blnymph


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Status: offline 		well there has hardly been any alternative to corrupt dictators in the region for anyone - "West" or "East"

that's why Saddam Hussein has been supported by various powers in his days ...

besides there are a few states there who are quite capable to buy any loyalties they consider beneficial for their own interests




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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 3:34:50 AM   
blnymph


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

sooner or later some American, Turkish, Russian warplane may crash into another since each wants to know what the other is doing ... what then?

We sue the radar manufacturer.



well, it is an old thread but

today, about 6 weeks later, no 2 planes crashed into each other but turkish military shot down a russian suchoi fighter-bomber (the first? ... we ll see)



< Message edited by blnymph -- 11/24/2015 3:37:30 AM >

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 5:35:34 AM   
tweakabelle


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Status: offline 		This is a very serious development.

It could lead to direct confrontation between Russia and a NATO member Turkey. The BBC reports:
"Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov is due to visit Turkey on Wednesday to discuss Syria, in a trip arranged before this incident. Erdogan is meanwhile expected to visit Russia for talks with Putin in late December."
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/11/24/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-idUKKBN0TD0IS20151124

If these talks and visits go ahead then perhaps some accommodation will be reached between the parties. If not .... who knows what could happen? This incident highlights the danger that sooner or later some of the external powers involved in Syria might end up confronting each other, with all the risks that entails.

Lets hope that sensible counsel prevails.

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 6:08:33 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		I think they need to work out a central air traffic control system. This whole thing has the possibility of getting totally out of hand if we aren't careful.

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 12:02:55 PM   
MrRodgers


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata




K.


I don't understand that at all. Here's a guy who has presided over war's he started, is empowered through nothing but corruption, propaganda and even killing his opponents and he...ate Obama's lunch ?' If he did, it's because he didn't have (couldn't afford) his own.

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 1:00:10 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		These fellows don't run under the same constitution we do and they don't have alternative opinions in their country.



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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 1:17:01 PM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

This is a very serious development.


The first thing that came to mind when I saw the news this morning was, "Have I just witnessed a snap shot of the thing that brings us into WW3?"

The implications of this are huge.


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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 1:56:16 PM   
blnymph


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Status: offline 		well maybe not (yet) WW 3
but we should face the fact that Erdogan committed an aggresive act against Russia - as a NATO member
and could claim NATO support if a conflict with Russia - with whatever provocations from either side - escalates further

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 2:10:57 PM   
AvalonFalls


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Status: offline 		In all honesty it was only a matter of time before something like this happened, epsecially with uncoordinated military air traffic in the area, and neither side willing to share with the other.

As they say Watch this space......

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 2:33:56 PM   
blnymph


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Status: offline 		what makes you think air traffic there is uncoordinated?
Obama and Putin agreed on coordination on the Antalya conference ...

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 3:14:57 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		Could Erdogan expect NATO support ? After all, it is a possibility that Erdogan may have been the aggressor. It's still at the " He says, she says" stage at the moment.

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 3:23:07 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
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Status: offline 		Obama and Putin may have talked the talk about co-ordination..........................Hitler and Chamberlain did something similar about 'Peace in our time'. 85 years later ..................

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 4:09:45 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

well maybe not (yet) WW 3
but we should face the fact that Erdogan committed an aggresive act against Russia - as a NATO member
and could claim NATO support if a conflict with Russia - with whatever provocations from either side - escalates further


It wasnt an agressive act by Turkey if the statements from them turn out to be true. They have said they gave the pilot several warnings as he was violating Turkish air space. The west will be able to tell exactly where the pilot was when he was fired at.

You are right on one thing, this is in big danger of escalating further.

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/24/2015 4:29:06 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

These fellows don't run under the same constitution we do and they don't have alternative opinions in their country.




(And....they are not signatory to the Geneva Convention....which has innumerable connotations all by itself).

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/25/2015 4:39:19 AM   
tweakabelle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

You are right on one thing, this is in big danger of escalating further.


According to today's Guardian, it appears that neither side is prepared to escalate things:
"[i]The Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said he spoke to his Turkish counterpart for around an hour on Wednesday. He said the attack looked like a “pre-planned provocation” and even if Turkish claims that the plane had strayed into Turkish airspace proved to be correct, there were no grounds for shooting it down.

But Russian officials made it clear that despite the fury, the reaction would be measured. There is no talk of a military response, and no suggestion that diplomatic relations could be cut or the Turkish ambassador expelled from Moscow. However, the tone of relations between the two countries is likely to change dramatically."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/25/second-russian-pilot-shot-down-turkey-alive-ambassador

Let's hope that this report is accurate and that both sides are in damage limitation mode.

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/25/2015 8:03:59 AM   
MariaB


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Let's hope that this report is accurate and that both sides are in damage limitation mode.


It certainly looks that way. None of this has the remotest chance of standing up to 'Agreement 5' of the NATO treaty.
What it could do, especially if Turkey persist in making a song and dance about this, is fracture NATO around the edges...isn't that Putins lifetime ambition?

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/25/2015 8:11:43 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: blnymph

what makes you think air traffic there is uncoordinated?
Obama and Putin agreed on coordination on the Antalya conference ...

Good ATC keeps aircraft in line with where they should be. Not over where they shouldn't.

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RE: Russia intervenes in Syria - 11/26/2015 9:12:21 AM   
blnymph


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Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline 		still no final word about what happened but according to recent telly news US observers rather tended to confim Russian than Turkish statements - any way IF there was a violation of Turkish airspace it could not have lasted longer than 8 to at maximum 17 seconds which makes eight to ten warnings about airspace violation before being fired at, like the Turkish officials claimed, hardly believable ... the plane was definitely over Syria again when it was shot down

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