RE: The problem with femdom art ... (Full Version)

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dreamlady -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (10/30/2015 12:24:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

In all those endeavors (and more), if you can't summarize the general difference between (a) and (b), then you know absolutely nothing about those endeavors. Period. Anyone who ever says "everyone is different" either is the smartest person in the world (because they know something nobody else knows), or, they're just not all that quick when it comes to sifting detail into manageable buckets.


I don't believe I was speaking in "general" differences, and my remark did not negate commonalities or discount them. We are ALL a part of the family of mankind.

Perhaps if I had noted that no two individuals are alike, I would have gotten that point across to you better?
Because regardless of nature or nurture, two identical twins raised in the same household by the same parents will still turn out differently -- just as their life experiences, each one's thoughts, ideas and dreams, the way that others respond to each twin will not be replicated exactly. At the very least, they will vary in tastes to one degree or another.

It was the variance in taste (i.e. preferences) to which I specifically had in mind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
Of course, the summary can be wrong - and it can always be improved - which is why I'm testing it here...

You say you are a scientist. You are familiar with the Heisenberg Principle, yes?
Your conclusions and summaries cannot factor YOU out of the equation. Therefore, your experiments and test results are only valid for YOU.

Further, whenever you (plural) begin from the wrong set of premises, or with too narrow a focus (your subjective lens angle), you will invariably end up with the wrong conclusion(s). [:-]

DreamLady

Edited to add: Wrong as in biased and/or incorrect and inaccurate assumptions.
(Plural you is myself included in that blanket statement.)



cloudboy -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (10/30/2015 2:15:34 PM)

I like fantasy art, and I don't confuse it with reality. "Art" is probably the wrong word; porn is a better, more accurate description.



cloudboy -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (10/30/2015 2:21:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UllrsIshtar

I think it's inherent to BDSM art that the focus is almost always going to be on the bottom in the scene, rather than the Top, regardless of the gender of either, because the bottom ends up being 'the subject'


I see the subject matter as porn, and hence the subject matter is always about the women. If the woman is uninspiring or uninteresting, no one is looking. The man is pretty much irrelevant -- except in gay porn -- where artistic touches and concerns matter more.



crumpets -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/2/2015 4:06:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I see the subject matter as porn


I'm belatedly realizing something poignant.
The women are viewing the material they viewed here, as art.
While I'm looking at it, truth be realized, as you say ... as "porn".

Hence, porn isn't art (at least, not at the base level).

The fact that it slowly dawned on me that so-called femdom art isn't art, per se - it's femdom porn - makes a HUGE difference in interpretation.
Huge difference.

Everything changes with that realization.



crumpets -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/2/2015 4:11:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
no two individuals are alike, I would have gotten that point across to you better?

I agree that no two iota are alike.
However, as an aggregate, there is a cultural similarity in people that two twins would most likely share.
If we fail to understand that which groups people, then we know nothing of the people themselves.

The process of understanding any individual "person" or "thing" starts with understanding the generalities about the group.

So, to understand, say, a stone, one needs to understand the underlying geological makeup first.
To understand a tree, one needs to understand trees, in general (and botany in particular).
To understand a particular disease, one needs to understand immunology, in general.
etc.

It's no different with people.



crumpets -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/2/2015 4:15:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
You say you are a scientist. You are familiar with the Heisenberg Principle, yes?


Every scientist and engineer took physics.
Everyone who took physics, has been introduced to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
Here's perhaps the best (shortest) correct explanation of it, in one minute and 3 seconds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vc-Uvp3vwg

The way I'd summarize it, imprecisely of course, is that every measurement disturbs the data.



LookieNoNookie -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/2/2015 7:23:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets

A thread posted today referring to Sardax femdom art had me reply the following (verbatim):

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
The problem I have with art, in general, and in femdom art, in particular, is that it evokes, in me, such sensations that are so frustrating that I would have been better off sans the art in the first place.


What, I find is both great (and terrible) in femdom art from the likes of Sardax, Namio Harukawa, xrenderer, Rodzo, Waldo, etc., is that varied visuals evince the requisite erotic feelings yet the depicted scenes are almost impossible to imagine happening in real life.
Still, as they are designed to do, they still evoke the expected emotions in me - yet - I can't help but notice a focus on the male - more so than, perhaps, the female...

Could my reaction simply be something that is a common failing of men, in general, to fall prey to such focused femdom artistic visuals (almost like what a do-me sub expects of a female dominant)?



FemDom art.

It's good.

It should prevail.

If you don't like titties.....you should find a new venue.



dreamlady -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/2/2015 7:52:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy
I see the subject matter as porn

I'm belatedly realizing something poignant.
The women are viewing the material they viewed here, as art.
While I'm looking at it, truth be realized, as you say ... as "porn".

Hence, porn isn't art (at least, not at the base level).

The fact that it slowly dawned on me that so-called femdom art isn't art, per se - it's femdom porn - makes a HUGE difference in interpretation.
Huge difference.

Everything changes with that realization.

You are just now realizing that FemDom "Art" is a euphemism for porn? [8|] The bulk of it, anyway.

Which is why there was only ONE image which I found to be erotic, the sole image that I would classify as art, or as having any artistic merit beyond personal amusement.

I feel much the same way about most of the relatively small amount of erotica I've ever read. Some of it is erotic literature, and other stuff is just pandering to the "Hustler" crowd or to those who seek out provocative cheap thrills. That stuff people used to write in "Penthouse Forum" was mainly awful, and I'm not critiquing bad writing styles because I always look for content value and believability if there is any.

quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
Everyone who took physics, has been introduced to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
...
The way I'd summarize it, imprecisely of course, is that every measurement disturbs the data.

Essentially, there is no such thing as a perfectly impartial observer. By your very presence, you affect the outcome of any experiment you design, observe or become a part of.
Not the best definition, but this will suffice in bringing to your attention that since you have influenced your own experiments, those results are only valid for you AS YOUR (PHONY) ALTER-EGO SELF from what you have contrived during your info-gathering processes -- based on the kind of bait you put out, the types of fake photos you subjectively chose, whatever it is that you made up out of thin air, and so forth. They may reflect the experiences of real-life subjects to a certain degree, if that's what you're aiming for as a faux echo chamber, but remember that you'll still always be removed from the actual reality of any given situation by your extra[neous] buffers.

You may think your margin of error is insignificant, but it is a margin nonetheless, and you have little to no solid *data* to compare it to except other results similarly gathered by YOU when swapping out a few variables here and there.

DreamLady



crumpets -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/2/2015 8:58:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
You are just now realizing that FemDom "Art" is a euphemism for porn? [8|] The bulk of it, anyway.

Yeah. I never said I was a rocket scientist, did I?
At least I have the capacity to wholly change my mind when shown the true light.

For some reason, I had taken the word "art" in "Femdom art" literally.
It didn't even dawn on me that it's not really art, even thought it looks like art, at face value.
I mean, Namio's art, or Sardax' art, or even this thing below, "looks" like art, right?
[image]http://orig15.deviantart.net/30d6/f/2013/263/8/e/pet_bears_by_humon-d6n2hwr.jpg[/image]
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
Which is why there was only ONE image which I found to be erotic, the sole image that I would classify as art, or as having any artistic merit beyond personal amusement.

Yeah. I see the distinction now.
It's totally different if I consider my reaction to "porn" versus my reaction to "art".
I fully understand my reaction to porn. I'm a guy. We're simple. Like the dogs in the art above.
At least with respect to how we react to naked or dominant women, we're simple.
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
I feel much the same way about most of the relatively small amount of erotica I've ever read. Some of it is erotic literature, and other stuff is just pandering to the "Hustler" crowd or to those who seek out provocative cheap thrills.

I've tried to read femdomme erotica. I really have. But, for the most part, the lack of English skills of the writer kills me.
It's downright painful to read most of that stuff. I just can't get over the lack of grammar. So, I miss the eroticism of it all.
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
Essentially, there is no such thing as a perfectly impartial observer. By your very presence, you affect the outcome of any experiment you design, observe or become a part of.

I'm very familiar with the scientific method, and double blind studies, and statistical variance, etc.
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
based on the kind of bait you put out, the types of fake photos you subjectively chose,

Certainly these are wholly valid points.
Every experiment has its flaws.
Some more than others.
No experiment is worth its weight in paper without being able to be reproduced by others.
Even then, it has to have statistical validity and control samples and measurement rigor, etc.
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
You may think your margin of error is insignificant, but it is a margin nonetheless...

The margin of error is huge.
I realize that.



crumpets -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/2/2015 9:23:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
Essentially, there is no such thing as a perfectly impartial observer. By your very presence, you affect the outcome of any experiment you design, observe or become a part of


BTW, that's not a bad summary, since even physicists have trouble summarizing the damn thing!
What is the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle? - Chad Orzel

Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle Derived and Explained | Doc Physics

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle Explained by Veritasium

Me? I like your summary!



dreamlady -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/2/2015 10:07:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crumpets
Yeah. I never said I was a rocket scientist, did I?

You aren't? Cudda swore that was buried in one of your lists somewhere. [8D]

I may be outspoken and opinionated at times (a lot of the time!), but I was practicing restraint in expressing my own preferences without pointing the finger as to what looks more to me like porn than art. There are women who like watching porn, but I'm not one of them, so I would have sounded overly critical of what others enjoy or consider art.

I went into detail explaining my perspective to you because (a) you are the OP, and (b) I figured you could handle hearing my particular views on what I find erotic. (A submissive man has to appear masculine-looking and be a fine specimen of manhood, or else he doesn't turn me on.) More along the lines of FemDom Erotic Images whether they are pornographic in nature or not.

Listen, if cartoon drawings and caricatures are visually pleasing, then more power to you or to anybody else.
I mean, comic books are called graphic novels. They're graphic storyboards, they tell a story, so not incorrect; but to me, they'll always be comic books irrespective of how serious or *comical* in theme.

It's all a matter of subjectively individual tastes. To some, rapping will never be viewed as a form of impromptu poetry, rappers not seen as "poet bards" of their peculiar age except within their own rap culture. Good, bad or ugly, aesthetical appreciations change with the times. There may be old-timers around who don't consider rock-n-roll to be a legitimate genre of music (or none other than '50s-style Buddy Holly & early Elvis, or the classic rock sub-genre of the late '60s thru the '70s, or that the advent of '80s technopop/'90s New Age-trance music doesn't count. . .). Whoops, rockers ARE those old-timers now.[sm=dance-smiley03.gif]

Tolerantly Yours, :p

DreamLady



crumpets -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/3/2015 6:31:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
Cudda swore that was buried in one of your lists somewhere.

Well, I may have mentioned that I took a course in Astronomy in college.
Naively, I thought it was about naming the constellations.
Little did I know there's no such thing as Astronomy.
It's pure physics.
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
I may be outspoken and opinionated at times (a lot of the time!), but I was practicing restraint in expressing my own preferences without pointing the finger as to what looks more to me like porn than art.

Likewise, while I'm shy with the right woman, I am also of an opinion at times.
But, I can learn. Think. Mull it over. And change my mind.
That's where my super "P" personality plays a role.
Strong "J"'s are often wedded to their ideas, especially mutually strong "IJ"s, who are the most dangerous people of all (because they think they know the answer and they can never change their minds all the while expecting others to strictly live by their ideals).

I think I have been looking at what I had been calling 'femdom art' all wrong.
Art is complex. Porn is not.
The type of Femdom art that attracts me is simply porn posing as art, while that which seems to attract the bulk of the ladies is, indeed, art.

Big difference.
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
There are women who like watching porn, but I'm not one of them, so I would have sounded overly critical of what others enjoy or consider art.

Porn is made, for the most part, by and for men.

So, that's why "femdom" porn contains the following (absolutely none of which appeals to me on a relationship level):
  • Guys getting their balls kicked by klutzy women who keep looking at the camera to see if they did it right
  • Guys getting spit upon and face slapped in a mean spirited way
  • Guys being walked upon by women in heels or being whipped in an obviously non-safe non-professional way
    etc.

    In contrast, the femdom art/porn that appeals to me is where the guy is simply "used" as an object of the Domme's perhaps perverse desires, such that she gets pleasure out of the result.
    quote:

    ORIGINAL: dreamlady
    I went into detail explaining my perspective to you because (a) you are the OP, and (b) I figured you could handle hearing my particular views on what I find erotic.

    The good news is that I "am" the OP, and, I can take anything.
    And I very much appreciate, and relish, your outlook, your perspective, and your attention to detail.
    In hindsight, I do get weary of the clueless, and I tend to respond to them sooner (it takes far less thinking); but I should concentrate on responding with my energy toward those, like you, who add value.



    • subinSouthend -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/3/2015 6:39:39 AM)

    I'm actually a huge fan of Femdom art (but not all) and much prefer it to photographs. However as with any art form no two people ever see the same thing, so It's all down to personal choice.



    crumpets -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/3/2015 8:15:01 AM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: subinSouthend
    I'm actually a huge fan of Femdom art (but not all) and much prefer it to photographs. However as with any art form no two people ever see the same thing, so It's all down to personal choice.

    I didn't look at your profile (I rarely look at them and respond only to what people write); but your avatar appears to indicate you're one of the few males who have responded here.

    Would you mind including a PG'ish version of the "type" of "femdom art" that you enjoy?
    It would be interesting to compare and contrast with that which I,and the ladies here differentially find satisfying.



    crumpets -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/12/2015 2:58:33 AM)

    quote:

    ORIGINAL: subinSouthend
    I'm actually a huge fan of Femdom art (but not all) and much prefer it to photographs. However as with any art form no two people ever see the same thing, so It's all down to personal choice.


    Just to report back, I have been thinking about this a lot, and, I'm reiterating that I'm strongly leaning toward what I thought was art, was, in reality, just plain old porn.

    No wonder it didn't make sense. It wasn't what it appeared (to me) to be.
    Now that I have clarity in thought - the logic starts to add up.

    Thanks everyone for opening my eyes!

    Maybe it's the Aspergers in me, but, sometimes it's downright embarrassing to re-read what I wrote and to realize, belatedly, how clueless I initially was/am.

    [image]http://www.femdom-resource.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/frieke-janssens.jpg[/image]



    dreamlady -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/16/2015 9:41:27 PM)

    For you, crumpets

    ~FemDom Art~

    [image]http://cdn.collarspace.com/attachments/111615/617A2BC0-5E96-4501-AD30-89D200D408A21.jpg[/image]

    DreamLady



    newbie2390 -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/8/2016 2:12:31 PM)

    Point taken!
    Sensation fantasy though:))))))))))))



    newbie2390 -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/8/2016 2:15:12 PM)

    Imagination is all:))))))))))



    newbie2390 -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/8/2016 2:17:03 PM)

    Points taken!!



    newbie2390 -> RE: The problem with femdom art ... (11/8/2016 2:20:17 PM)

    LOve this so much :)))))))))))))))))



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