quote:

A jury in Milwaukee County Circuit Court on Tuesday held that a gun shop that sold a pistol to a straw purchaser was negligent and ordered it to pay $6 million to two police officers, The Associated Press reported.

The suit, brought against Badger Guns, a gun shop just outside Milwaukee, was closely watched by gun-control advocates, the firearms industry and legal scholars because it involved a rare test before a jury of the responsibility of gun sellers for the criminal use of their products.

Gun-control groups hoped that a victory would embolden more victims and lawyers to sue what they say is a small minority of gun stores that make questionable sales.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

A jury in Milwaukee County Circuit Court on Tuesday held that a gun shop that sold a pistol to a straw purchaser was negligent and ordered it to pay $6 million to two police officers, The Associated Press reported.

The suit, brought against Badger Guns, a gun shop just outside Milwaukee, was closely watched by gun-control advocates, the firearms industry and legal scholars because it involved a rare test before a jury of the responsibility of gun sellers for the criminal use of their products.

Gun-control groups hoped that a victory would embolden more victims and lawyers to sue what they say is a small minority of gun stores that make questionable sales.

Speaking about responsibility, this makes more than just good sense, it is about time.

This should set national precedent, or at least I hope it does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

A jury in Milwaukee County Circuit Court on Tuesday held that a gun shop that sold a pistol to a straw purchaser was negligent and ordered it to pay $6 million to two police officers, The Associated Press reported.

The suit, brought against Badger Guns, a gun shop just outside Milwaukee, was closely watched by gun-control advocates, the firearms industry and legal scholars because it involved a rare test before a jury of the responsibility of gun sellers for the criminal use of their products.

Gun-control groups hoped that a victory would embolden more victims and lawyers to sue what they say is a small minority of gun stores that make questionable sales.

Speaking about responsibility, this makes more than just good sense, it is about time.

This should set national precedent, or at least I hope it does.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Did anyone see what it was that should have told Badger that it was a straw purchase?
We don't want to require gun dealers to be mind readers do we?
I saw the story and they carefully avoided saying why they should have known.

Have you a clue what the phoque a "straw purchase is"?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
How would a qualified gun dealer not know? Do you really suppose that this was a one gun affair?

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Do you ever read the moronic shit you post?
The article was about a licensed gun dealer who was breaking the law.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Do you ever read the moronic shit you post?
The article was about a licensed gun dealer who was breaking the law.

That doesn't fit Joether's agenda...he talks about scrupulous gun shops out of one side of his mouth for 5 seconds, then spends 5 minutes stating that all shops should have less trust, how people who buy guns and resell them outnumber regular gun buyers, etc.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

This is from a fox article on the thing yesterday



The gun shop's attorneys denied wrongdoing and said the owner, Adam Allan, couldn't be held financially responsible for crimes connected to a weapon sold at his shop. Badger Guns, previously known as Badger Outdoors, has since closed and been replaced by a gun shop called Brew City Shooters Supply. All three entities have been run by Allan family members.

Authorities have said more than 500 firearms recovered from crime scenes had been traced back to Badger Guns and Badger Outdoors, making it the "No. 1 crime gun dealer in America," according to a 2005 charging document from an unrelated case. A former federal agent has also said the shop had failed to take necessary precautions to prevent straw purchases.

Norberg and Kunisch cited those details in their lawsuit, saying they showed a history of negligence.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/14/wisconsin-gun-shop-ordered-to-pay-millions-to-injured-police-officers/

quote:

Burton pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree attempted intentional homicide and is serving an 80-year sentence. Collins, the man who purchased the gun, got a two-year sentence after pleading guilty to making a straw purchase for an underage buyer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

This is from a fox article on the thing yesterday



The gun shop's attorneys denied wrongdoing and said the owner, Adam Allan, couldn't be held financially responsible for crimes connected to a weapon sold at his shop. Badger Guns, previously known as Badger Outdoors, has since closed and been replaced by a gun shop called Brew City Shooters Supply. All three entities have been run by Allan family members.

Authorities have said more than 500 firearms recovered from crime scenes had been traced back to Badger Guns and Badger Outdoors, making it the "No. 1 crime gun dealer in America," according to a 2005 charging document from an unrelated case. A former federal agent has also said the shop had failed to take necessary precautions to prevent straw purchases.

Norberg and Kunisch cited those details in their lawsuit, saying they showed a history of negligence.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/14/wisconsin-gun-shop-ordered-to-pay-millions-to-injured-police-officers/

500 guns found at crimes scenes is certainly fishy if indeed that's true. The information that I'm not finding at your link is specifically what it was that proves the dealer did not comply with the law. Did he not do background checks ? Did he keep selling to the same straw buyer even though something should have raised a red flag ? Or is the issue that 500 guns found at crimes scenes mean that he must have been doing something wrong though there is no one specific thing he did against the law to pin him on?

Thanks for getting the information though it doesn't answer my questions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

then do your own research...


sod it, seeing as IM in a good mood. the link at fox, also included this.....

quote:

Burton pleaded guilty to two counts of first-degree attempted intentional homicide and is serving an 80-year sentence. Collins, the man who purchased the gun, got a two-year sentence after pleading guilty to making a straw purchase for an underage buyer.

If you had looked up Julius Burton, you would have found this.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/47859617.html

Julius Burton was only 18.
Underage...paid the buyer 40 Bucks tried to kill 2 cops.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

He laid out what he called telltale signs of a straw buy: Burton was in the store and pointed to the gun he wanted; Collins initially marked that he was not the buyer of the gun on the form, but was allowed to change that — and also change his address; Collins and Burton left the store to get more cash to pay for the gun; Collins didn't present an ID when he picked up the gun.

In 2006, regulators from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives recommended revoking Badger Outdoors' license. But there was no revocation.

The players then took on new roles and a new license was issued to Adam Allan, the son of former owner Walter Allan, creating what one federal official called a "clean slate," a Milwaukee Journal Sentinel investigation found.

The jury did not hear evidence about the recommended revocation because the owners said they didn't know about it until they read it in the Journal Sentinel.

Dunphy did stress to the jury that there were violations in the 2006 inspection, which led to speeding up the plan to have Adam Allan take over the business.

Wendy Gunderson, who represents Badger Outdoors and its owners, Mick Beatovic and Walter Allan, assailed the notion that Dunphy had proved any evidence of a conspiracy. She said it was nothing more than a routine transaction where a business is sold to a family member. She said Beatovic and Walter Allan were ready to retire, not committing a conspiracy.

Badger Guns and Badger Outdoors were top sellers of crime guns recovered in Milwaukee for more than a decade. In 2005, Badger Outdoors was the top seller of crime guns in the nation with 537 such weapons recovered.

Such gun trace data has not been released recently because of a secrecy measure passed by Congress. Several documents, including ATF inspection reports, being cited in the trial also cannot be released under exceptions made by Congress. However, they have been turned over through this lawsuit.

Badger Guns' license was revoked by ATF in 2011 but the Collins transaction was not cited as a violation so the jury did not hear that the store's license was yanked.

Michael Allan, Walter's other son, now runs a gun store in the same location.

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/badger-guns-failed-miserably-in-handgun-sale-officers-attorney-says-b99595225z1-332166222.html

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

He laid out what he called telltale signs of a straw buy: Burton was in the store and pointed to the gun he wanted; Collins initially marked that he was not the buyer of the gun on the form, but was allowed to change that — and also change his address; Collins and Burton left the store to get more cash to pay for the gun; Collins didn't present an ID when he picked up the gun.

In 2006, regulators from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives recommended revoking Badger Outdoors' license. But there was no revocation.

The players then took on new roles and a new license was issued to Adam Allan, the son of former owner Walter Allan, creating what one federal official called a "clean slate," a Milwaukee Journal Sentinel investigation found.

The jury did not hear evidence about the recommended revocation because the owners said they didn't know about it until they read it in the Journal Sentinel.

Dunphy did stress to the jury that there were violations in the 2006 inspection, which led to speeding up the plan to have Adam Allan take over the business.

Wendy Gunderson, who represents Badger Outdoors and its owners, Mick Beatovic and Walter Allan, assailed the notion that Dunphy had proved any evidence of a conspiracy. She said it was nothing more than a routine transaction where a business is sold to a family member. She said Beatovic and Walter Allan were ready to retire, not committing a conspiracy.

Badger Guns and Badger Outdoors were top sellers of crime guns recovered in Milwaukee for more than a decade. In 2005, Badger Outdoors was the top seller of crime guns in the nation with 537 such weapons recovered.

Such gun trace data has not been released recently because of a secrecy measure passed by Congress. Several documents, including ATF inspection reports, being cited in the trial also cannot be released under exceptions made by Congress. However, they have been turned over through this lawsuit.

Badger Guns' license was revoked by ATF in 2011 but the Collins transaction was not cited as a violation so the jury did not hear that the store's license was yanked.

Michael Allan, Walter's other son, now runs a gun store in the same location.

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/badger-guns-failed-miserably-in-handgun-sale-officers-attorney-says-b99595225z1-332166222.html

Let's hope Michael has learned.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

This is from a fox article on the thing yesterday



The gun shop's attorneys denied wrongdoing and said the owner, Adam Allan, couldn't be held financially responsible for crimes connected to a weapon sold at his shop. Badger Guns, previously known as Badger Outdoors, has since closed and been replaced by a gun shop called Brew City Shooters Supply. All three entities have been run by Allan family members.

Authorities have said more than 500 firearms recovered from crime scenes had been traced back to Badger Guns and Badger Outdoors, making it the "No. 1 crime gun dealer in America," according to a 2005 charging document from an unrelated case. A former federal agent has also said the shop had failed to take necessary precautions to prevent straw purchases.

Norberg and Kunisch cited those details in their lawsuit, saying they showed a history of negligence.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/14/wisconsin-gun-shop-ordered-to-pay-millions-to-injured-police-officers/

500 guns found at crimes scenes is certainly fishy if indeed that's true. The information that I'm not finding at your link is specifically what it was that proves the dealer did not comply with the law. Did he not do background checks ? Did he keep selling to the same straw buyer even though something should have raised a red flag ? Or is the issue that 500 guns found at crimes scenes mean that he must have been doing something wrong though there is no one specific thing he did against the law to pin him on?

Thanks for getting the information though it doesn't answer my questions.

It appears that the straw buyer was an idiot. Instead of deciding what gun to get for the underage guy he was buying for and going in to get it he took the real buyer with him and talked the gun over with him in front of the sales person. Then he took the guy outside and came back in to buy the gun. Now we only have the straw purchaser's word on this. The salesperson said they didn't remember the purchase. But it looks like Badger should have known the purchase was for the underage guy. This is the 2nd time a store has been successfully sued since the Federal law was passed. You can sue the strore but only if they did not follow the law. As long as this doesn't serve as an excuse to sue any store where a gun turns out to be a straw purchase it is what we need to do. A reasonably intelligent buyer wouldn't have telegraphed his intentions like this moron and very, very few stores would have been stupid enough to sell under these circumstances.