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And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/19/2015 7:40:59 PM   
MercTech


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Just a link to a different approach.. call up the militia.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/19/1171678/-Mr-President-Please-Call-Up-the-Unorganized-Militia-For-Inspection
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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/19/2015 7:55:08 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech


Just a link to a different approach.. call up the militia.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/19/1171678/-Mr-President-Please-Call-Up-the-Unorganized-Militia-For-Inspection

It is dailykos, of course it is out of the box.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to MercTech)
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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/19/2015 9:12:16 PM   
jlf1961


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From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Actually, the article is wrong about no tradition of the unorganized militia.

Andrew Jackson led a force of mainly militia, called up by asking for volunteers, to New Orleans.

A further point, the second refers to the State Militia, which by its nature must be voluntarily ordered by the state governor to be placed under federal control.

Finally, the militia supply their own weapons, clothing etc, again eliminating this individuals argument, and making the point of his article null and void.

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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/19/2015 9:50:10 PM   
Termyn8or


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Status: offline 		It fucking says the PEOPLE. It does not say the militia, which was presumed to exist of course.

IT SAYS THE PEOPLE.

Which word is not clear here ?

"THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

I do not see the fucking word "militia" anywhere in that sentence.

T^T

< Message edited by Termyn8or -- 10/19/2015 9:51:12 PM >

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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 4:15:22 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

It fucking says the PEOPLE. It does not say the militia, which was presumed to exist of course.

IT SAYS THE PEOPLE.

Which word is not clear here ?

"THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

I do not see the fucking word "militia" anywhere in that sentence.

T^T


That's because you did not read the entire and correct sentence:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Yes, I 'bold the part you conveniently left out. I even noted in 'red' were the word 'militia' appears. Either you didn't know the full 2nd amendment's wording, in which case your an idiot; or you knew it and just left thinks out becaise its politically inconvenient to your lame ass argument. In which case your intellectually dishonest.

Which is it, Termie? Are you an idiot? Or intellectually dishonest?

"the right of the people to bear arms" does not mean what you think it does. Your 'understanding' of it and the rest of the amendment is totally perverted and corrupted. This part actually refers to the understanding that the militia can have its members keep their arms for their militia duties in their homes or businesses. Rather than in a central armory. It does not mean you have an unlimited right to have guns and held to no accountability with them.

The founding fathers wanted to make sure every aspect of government was accountable. This included the militia. Since corrupted members of a militia could aid other corrupted and vile persons in taking over the government and forcing tyranny down onto toe good citizens of the young nation. Therefore, if you want your gun protected under the 2nd, your not only part of the militia, but accontable for your arm according to not just the militia, but government as well.

A real stark contrast to the NRA fed bullshit you have been swallowing all these years no doubt. With mass shootings every few weeks and shootings every day, more people are shifting viewpoints over to the 'more reasonable regulation' side than the 'we need guns to protect ourselves from nothing'. Sane people are tired of people like you.

Its a trust factor. You distrust everyone yet expect unconditional trust from everyone to you. That your an adult and have not learned this simple truth: trust is a two way street. You dont trust your fellow Americans; then they dont have to trust you! You want guns? You EARN their trust. Don't want to earn their trust? Then you don't need the guns....


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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 4:22:16 AM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

It fucking says the PEOPLE. It does not say the militia, which was presumed to exist of course.

IT SAYS THE PEOPLE.

Which word is not clear here ?

"THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

I do not see the fucking word "militia" anywhere in that sentence.

T^T
Look at the fourth word of the amendment.

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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 4:28:57 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Actually, the article is wrong about no tradition of the unorganized militia.

Perhaps you could cite for us the times the "unorganized militia has been used?

Andrew Jackson led a force of mainly militia, called up by asking for volunteers, to New Orleans.

A quick look at the order of battle will show the falacy of this statement.

A further point, the second refers to the State Militia, which by its nature must be voluntarily ordered by the state governor to be placed under federal control.

Wrong again. The president request/requisitions the militia from a state and the govornor sends troops. I worked for george washington in pensylvania and it worked for kennedy. in mississippi

Finally, the militia supply their own weapons, clothing etc, again eliminating this individuals argument, and making the point of his article null and void.


The dick act changed that more than a hundred years ago.

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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 7:09:25 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

It fucking says the PEOPLE. It does not say the militia, which was presumed to exist of course.

IT SAYS THE PEOPLE.

Which word is not clear here ?

"THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED"

I do not see the fucking word "militia" anywhere in that sentence.

T^T


That will happen when you quote only the part of the sentence without the word militia and ignore the part of the sentence that includes the word militia.




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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 7:40:32 AM   
joether


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Actually, the article is wrong about no tradition of the unorganized militia.


There is another phrase for 'unorganized militia': THUGS WITH GUNS!

I do not think the founding fathers had in mind that just.....anyone....could have guns and protections with guns from the federal government. In fact, the listed what sort of militia could have guns and protections from federal laws: "A well REGULATED MILITIA...".

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Andrew Jackson led a force of mainly militia, called up by asking for volunteers, to New Orleans.


If they were unorganized, how could they be led? Much less fight efficiently?

I have a hard time taking someone whom states they were in the US Military, SERIOUSLY, who can not understand the difference between a 'Regulated Militia/Military' and a 'Unorganized Militia/Military'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
A further point, the second refers to the State Militia, which by its nature must be voluntarily ordered by the state governor to be placed under federal control.


Wrong and wrong.

The militia refers to individual militias as defined under the 10th amendment. Meaning, they could be organized at the town, county or state levels. Yet, regardless of unit deployment, could be regulated at the local and state levels. Most states opted for town militias, rather than state armies. Yet, if need be, the state could call up those local militias.

States could opt for volunteer or mandatory service. In most cases, if you were between the ages of 16-74, in decent health (i.e. walk 10 miles), can carry your weapon (musket, rifle, or shotgun) with 46-74 rounds of ammo (with powder), rations for one day, bed roll.....and no criminal penalties currently outstanding...

...You were in the local militia.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961
Finally, the militia supply their own weapons, clothing etc, again eliminating this individuals argument, and making the point of his article null and void.


Your a funny man! It depends on the state and even the local level on how resupply and arming worked. In some cases, the local level would supply arms and equipment. In others, the individual would have to supply their gear. In some cases, other people would 'chip in' to help a poor person obtain their gear, because they actually cared about one another.



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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 8:11:03 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: joether

The militia refers to individual militias as defined under the 10th amendment. Meaning, they could be organized at the town, county or state levels. Yet, regardless of unit deployment, could be regulated at the local and state levels.



Half right and all wrong. While organized at the local level the control is always at the govornors desk.


Most states opted for town militias, rather than state armies. Yet, if need be, the state could call up those local militias.


Cite please

States could opt for volunteer or mandatory service. In most cases, if you were between the ages of 16-74, in decent health (i.e. walk 10 miles), can carry your weapon (musket, rifle, or shotgun) with 46-74 rounds of ammo (with powder), rations for one day, bed roll.....and no criminal penalties currently outstanding...

...You were in the local militia.


You have been reading a fifth grade text book.
Do you have any idea how much 74 rounds of ammo weigh? How much the powder to fire those balls would weigh? Then of course there is your food,clothing etc and the food and hardware for your horse. Lets not for get how much that blunderbus weighs also.








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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 9:04:03 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech


Just a link to a different approach.. call up the militia.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/19/1171678/-Mr-President-Please-Call-Up-the-Unorganized-Militia-For-Inspection

There are so many things wrong with this idea I hardly know were to begin.
Does he really think that every gun owner should have to meet all physical and equipments standards of the regular military?
Does he not see that it would mean that every gun owner would have to be allowed to have assault rifles, not just guns that look like assault rifles.
Does he not see that the government would have to pay all those people they called up, even if they just paid them all as E-1s the cost would be astronomical.
Does he really want them to be called up so they can see how many they are and how much political power they could have.

The answer, of course is no. He just wants to give anti-gun people something to argue, and to irritate pro-gun people.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 9:07:25 AM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline 		There is another phrase for 'unorganized militia': THUGS WITH GUNS!


So you believe that anyone who owns a firearm and is not directly under control of the government is a thug? Guess that puts you firmly in the gun grabber column.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 9:28:37 AM   
thompsonx


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Status: offline 		ORIGINAL: BamaD

Does he really think that every gun owner should have to meet all physical and equipments standards of the regular military?

If the so called militia claims to be such then it is their responsibility to arm themselves appropriately.

Does he not see that it would mean that every gun owner would have to be allowed to have assault rifles, not just guns that look like assault rifles.

Just as full auto is not available to every member of a rifle company same same for the so called militia. Likewise for heavy weapons.


Does he not see that the government would have to pay all those people they called up, even if they just paid them all as E-1s the cost would be astronomical.
Does he really want them to be called up so they can see how many they are and how much political power they could have.

Since they cannot be federalized they would be inspected in their own state at state expense.


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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 9:37:17 AM   
BamaD


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Status: offline 		Just as full auto is not available to every member of a rifle company same same for the so called militia. Likewise for heavy weapons.

M-16

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to thompsonx)
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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 9:55:22 AM   
thompsonx


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< Message edited by thompsonx -- 10/20/2015 9:59:46 AM >

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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 10:09:50 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Just as full auto is not available to every member of a rifle company same same for the so called militia. Likewise for heavy weapons.

M-16


Isn't the m-16 limited to 3 round burst of full auto?

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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 10:17:37 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD

Just as full auto is not available to every member of a rifle company same same for the so called militia. Likewise for heavy weapons.

M-16


Isn't the m-16 limited to 3 round burst of full auto?


For the most part, however doesn't each squad have a chainsaw, and currently the three round burst is not allowed for the general public so that would have to change, now wouldn't it.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 10:24:35 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		once you are trained, perhaps. but that is a great deal of fantasy.

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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 10:28:25 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

For the most part, however doesn't each squad have a chainsaw, and currently the three round burst is not allowed for the general public so that would have to change, now wouldn't it.

My point was that in the military not all or even most of the members of a rifle company are armed with full auto.

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RE: And out of the box take on firearm regulations... - 10/20/2015 10:43:45 AM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

once you are trained, perhaps. but that is a great deal of fantasy.

Personally I wouldn't want a full auto.
But if you are going to call them up you have to allow them to be equiped on the level of the military, and if they needed special training that would have to be provided.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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