RE: Republican Debate part 3 (Full Version)

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bounty44 -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/5/2015 4:25:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


quote:

having to liquidate a retirement account isn't being irresponsible, its using your own money to deal with life's exigencies. it happens to people frequently through little or no fault of their own.


From what I read, he claims he needs it for children's University. His kids are toddlers. So his very dodgy.



his children are school age.




bounty44 -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 1:10:03 PM)

yes I know its a year before a new president is elected; still this is interesting:

"Carson, other GOP candidates top Clinton in latest national poll"

quote:

A new national poll shows nearly every major Republican candidate beating Hillary Clinton in a hypothetical general election -- and shows Ben Carson leading by a resounding 10-point margin...

the survey showed Carson, the retired neurosurgeon who has been trading the lead with Trump in GOP primary polls, with a 50-40 percent lead over the Democratic front-runner.

According to Quinnipiac, Clinton's lead among women "evaporates" when she's pitted against Carson. Women break for him over Clinton, 45-44 percent.

Florida Sen. Marco Rubio also beats Clinton, 46-41 percent; Texas Sen. Ted Cruz beats her 46-43 percent; and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie beats her 46-41 percent.

Clinton still leads Trump, 46-43 percent...


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/11/04/carson-other-gop-candidates-top-clinton-in-latest-national-poll/




dcnovice -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 1:15:25 PM)

quote:

"Carson, other GOP candidates top Clinton in latest national poll"

Well, of course someone who got a scholarship to West Point is gonna lead the pack. [;)]




Lucylastic -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 1:20:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

"Carson, other GOP candidates top Clinton in latest national poll"

Well, of course someone who got a scholarship to West Point is gonna lead the pack. [;)]

sweet heaven when will the madness end...
Im guessing nov next year. gawd its sad..so so sad that its come to this.




bounty44 -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 1:35:01 PM)

maybe the smiley face at the end of the sentence was a tongue in cheek/tacit acknowledgment of that little mess by the liberal media?

I don't know the whole story, but there is this:

quote:

A furious Rush Limbaugh is labeling a Politico story that accuses Ben Carson of lying about a West Point scholarship an "assassination attempt" to end the retired pediatric neurosurgeon's White House bid – staunchly defending the candidate as a victim of an "electronic lynching."

In comments during his national radio show and on social media, the conservative commentator laid into Politico in particular, and "mainstream media" in general for trying to "politically end Ben Carson's bid for the Republican presidential nomination by telling an outright lie and then accusing the campaign of lying and admitting to lying."...

"You read The Politico story, and the way this is written, you're gonna think that [Carson] has said he attended West Point and he attended on a scholarship and that Politico has found out that he didn't attend," he also writes on his Facebook page.

"That's what they want you to conclude, that he lied about going to West Point. Carson "never said he accepted an invitation to West Point."

"He never applied. He never said he attended," Limbaugh continues. "The only people lying are the Politico. This piece today is a political assassination attempt following on the heels of that CNBC debate."


http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/rush-limbaugh-politico-article-ben-carson/2015/11/06/id/701002/

more here:

http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/11/ben-carson-politico-blatantly-lied-about-west-point-story/




Lucylastic -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 1:41:06 PM)

lol you invoked the dogma of limbaugh.
Im so sorry that you are so afflicted.




dcnovice -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 2:08:08 PM)

quote:

I don't know the whole story

This might help.

Ben Carson and Cecil Murphey, Gifted Hands: The Ben Carson Story (Zondervan, 1990):

Page 57: "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point."

Page 65: "I remembered the scholarship offer from West Point."

Quotes via Amazon's "Look Inside" feature.




Aylee -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 3:04:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I don't know the whole story

This might help.

Ben Carson and Cecil Murphey, Gifted Hands: The Ben Carson Story (Zondervan, 1990):

Page 57: "Later I was offered a full scholarship to West Point."

Page 65: "I remembered the scholarship offer from West Point."

Quotes via Amazon's "Look Inside" feature.


Everyone at West Point is on scholarship. I can see how a 17 year old would see help with acceptance into West Point from a general as a full scholarship offer.

The service academies are different than colleges.

Was his comments imprecise? Maybe. As imprecise as creating composite people? Not so much.




dcnovice -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 3:16:18 PM)

quote:

Everyone at West Point is on scholarship. I can see how a 17 year old would see help with acceptance into West Point from a general as a full scholarship offer.

The book wasn't written by a 17-year-old. It was written by a supposedly brilliant surgeon who'd had ample time and experience to learn how scholarships do and don't work.




bounty44 -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 3:18:03 PM)

right, but that's not the issue--go back and read what Limbaugh said about the politico piece...

and this stuff:

Politico stealth-edits Carson story

Politico Changes Headline On Carson Story, Doesn't Admit ...

Where Politico's Ben Carson 'scoop' went wrong

in the meantime, im not wanting this to get lost in the shuffle:

quote:

A new national poll shows nearly every major Republican candidate beating Hillary Clinton in a hypothetical general election -- and shows Ben Carson leading by a resounding 10-point margin...

the survey showed Carson, the retired neurosurgeon who has been trading the lead with Trump in GOP primary polls, with a 50-40 percent lead over the Democratic front-runner.

According to Quinnipiac, Clinton's lead among women "evaporates" when she's pitted against Carson. Women break for him over Clinton, 45-44 percent.

Florida Sen. Marco Rubio also beats Clinton, 46-41 percent; Texas Sen. Ted Cruz beats her 46-43 percent; and New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie beats her 46-41 percent.

Clinton still leads Trump, 46-43 percent...




dcnovice -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 3:23:16 PM)

quote:

that's not the issue--go back and read what Limbaugh said about the politico piece...

Of course, of course.

The real story is some blowhard's spin rather than the candidate's own words.

Always interesting to see how things work on Planet Dittohead.




Aylee -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 3:27:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Everyone at West Point is on scholarship. I can see how a 17 year old would see help with acceptance into West Point from a general as a full scholarship offer.

The book wasn't written by a 17-year-old. It was written by a supposedly brilliant surgeon who'd had ample time and experience to learn how scholarships do and don't work.


If a General wanted him for West Point, he would have been admitted. On a full scholarship with stipend. He was everything they were looking for. He did not want West Point though.

Carson is a civilian. I don't expect him to know the ins and outs of the service academies. I don't expect 98% of civilians to.

It was an imprecise statement. But so are composite people in one's biography.

By the way, exactly why do you think a pedestrian neurosurgeon would spend time on learning about the service academies he wasn't even interested in?

That ranks up there with me learning about the Seahawks.




dcnovice -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 3:37:07 PM)

quote:

If a General wanted him for West Point, he would have been admitted.

"If" being the operative word.


quote:

Carson is a civilian. I don't expect him to know the ins and outs of the service academies.

Perhaps not. But by the time he wrote Gifted Hands, he'd certainly had enough experience with admission to academic institutions to know the difference between a few polite words at a social gathering and an actual scholarship offer.




Aylee -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 3:45:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

If a General wanted him for West Point, he would have been admitted.

"If" being the operative word.


quote:

Carson is a civilian. I don't expect him to know the ins and outs of the service academies.

Perhaps not. But by the time he wrote Gifted Hands, he'd certainly had enough experience with admission to academic institutions to know the difference between a few polite words at a social gathering and an actual scholarship offer.


The service academy admissions are different than other academic institutions. I would bet it was an actual offer to get him in, not just polite words.




bounty44 -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 3:57:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

that's not the issue--go back and read what Limbaugh said about the politico piece...

Of course, of course.

The real story is some blowhard's spin rather than the candidate's own words.

Always interesting to see how things work on Planet Dittohead.


if you read carefully, you will notice rush Limbaugh is not discounting ben carsons actual words, in fact, he is taking them into account and his whole premise relies on the politico piece distorting those words and giving a false impression.

its mindboggling to me that this is even an actual conversation...





dcnovice -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 4:08:59 PM)

quote:

The service academy admissions are different than other academic institutions.

You keep saying that. Are you actually suggesting West Point admits people who haven't even applied based on meetings at social encounters?


quote:

I would bet it was an actual offer to get him in, not just polite words.

It sounds like there may have been a recruiter's promise to recommend Carson and/or bring him to the attention of the right folks. But that strikes me as falling short of a formal offer of admission to the USMA.

Ben Carson told the New York Times: "I don't remember all the specific details. Because I had done so extraordinarily well you know I was told that someone like me — they could get a scholarship to West Point. But I made it clear I was going to pursue a career in medicine."

"It was, you know, an informal 'with a record like yours we could easily get you a scholarship to West Point,'" he added.

"They were saying you would be a tremendous addition to the military and we can get you into West Point with a full scholarship," Carson later told reporters.

"They were very impressed with what I had done," Carson said. "I interpreted it as an offer."


Emphases mine.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/ben-carson-never-applied-west-point-campaign-says-n458731





Aylee -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 4:21:49 PM)

There are three ways to get into the service academies. And yes, one if them is that informal conversation. As I said, if the General said he could get him in, then it was a sure thing. Not just a bringing him to certain people's attention.




thompsonx -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 4:47:53 PM)

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

Well, of course someone who got a scholarship to West Point is gonna lead the pack. [;)]


Admission to west point is by appointment. It is not a scholarship. Cadets are paid to attend west point.

A first-year cadet earns more than $900 a month, and the amount increases each year.. A portion of that cadet pay is deposited into a personal checking account. Another portion of cadet pay is deposited to a "Cadet Account" that is used to help a cadet pay for expenses such as uniforms, books, a computer, activity fees, etc. Each cadet pays a standard amount for laundry, dry cleaning, haircuts, tailoring services and shoe repair. A cadet's gross salary is subject to federal and state withholding taxes and Social Security deductions.

http://www.usma.edu/admissions/SitePages/FAQ_Life.aspx




bounty44 -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 4:48:30 PM)

from an earlier link that seems to have been ignored:

quote:

What initially looked like a disaster for Ben Carson could now be a major black eye for Politico.

On Friday, Politico reported that Carson had "fabricated" his application and acceptance into West Point, and that his campaign had acknowledged as much in an interview.

That story was initially headlined "EXCLUSIVE: Ben Carson admits fabricating West Point scholarship." It seemed like the sort of story that had the potential to ruin Carson's ambitions for the presidency.

But the Politico story was not accurate on some key points.

And in the wake of pushback from the Carson campaign -- which called the story an "outright lie" -- Politico softened its headline, removed the "fabrication" language, and changed some key details -- even as it said it was "standing by its story." ...

But Carson's campaign sees the matter differently: "It's clear that what the Politico writer, with what he was trying to gain with the headline, did not substantiate it with his article," Armstrong Williams, Carson's business manager, told CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

Politico's initial story began by stating that Carson's campaign had admitted "that a central point in his inspirational personal story was fabricated: his application and acceptance into the U.S. Military Academy at West Point."

In fact, there is no evidence in Politico's story that Carson ever claimed to have applied to West Point.

The Politico story does show that Carson said several times that he was "offered a full scholarship to West Point." He made that claim in his book, "Gifted Hands," and in several media interviews, including during an appearance on Charlie Rose last month.

Carson acknowledged Friday that he was never offered a full scholarship to West Point, and sought to clarify that he had instead been given an informal offer or "nomination" to attend West Point.

"Because I had done so extraordinarily well you know I was told that someone like me -- they could get a scholarship to West Point. But I made it clear I was going to pursue a career in medicine," Carson told The New York Times. "It was, you know, an informal 'with a record like yours we could easily get you a scholarship to West Point."

Politico also claims that West Point "has no record of Carson applying, much less being extended admission." But West Point told CNN on Friday that it does not keep records of decades-old applications, and would not be able to know if Carson was offered an appointment because he did not attend.

Finally, Politico's story seeks to cast doubt on Carson's claim that he was introduced to General William Westmoreland during Memorial Day of his senior year at high school.

In "Gifted Hands," Carson writes that his high school ROTC director "introduced me to General Westmoreland, and I had dinner with him and the Congressional Medal winners."

Politico says official U.S. Army records show Westmoreland did not visit Detroit around Memorial Day in 1969 or have dinner with Carson. "In fact," Politico reports, "the general's records suggest he was in Washington that day and played tennis at 6:45 p.m."

But Politico goes on to note that there was a similar banquet event in Detroit in February of that year that the General did attend, and that "Carson, a leader of the city's ROTC program at the time, may have been among the invited guests at the $10-a-plate event."

Following pushback from the Carson campaign, Politico softened its headline and changed its lead and various details in the story. The story is now headlined, "Exclusive: Carson claimed West Point 'scholarship' but never applied."

Carson's campaign, meanwhile, seemed unfazed by the report. Barry Bennett, Carson's campaign manager, said in an email to CNN that the story had been "debunked."

"Ben was offered a nomination which he declined," Bennet wrote.




dcnovice -> RE: Republican Debate part 3 (11/7/2015 4:50:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

There are three ways to get into the service academies. And yes, one if them is that informal conversation. As I said, if the General said he could get him in, then it was a sure thing. Not just a bringing him to certain people's attention.

No transcript? No physical? No SATs? No interview?




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