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Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakable e... - 11/3/2015 9:20:52 PM   
ifmaz


Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
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quote:


Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11970391/Internet-firms-to-be-banned-from-offering-out-of-reach-communications-under-new-laws.html

Companies such as Apple, Google and others will no longer be able to offer encryption so advanced that even they cannot decipher it when asked to under the Investigatory Powers Bill

Internet and social media companies will be banned from putting customer communications beyond their own reach under new laws to be unveiled on Wednesday.

Companies such as Apple, Google and others will no longer be able to offer encryption so advanced that even they cannot decipher it when asked to, the Daily Telegraph can disclose.

Measures in the Investigatory Powers Bill will place in law a requirement on tech firms and service providers to be able to provide unencrypted communications to the police or spy agencies if requested through a warrant.

The move follows concerns that a growing number of encryption services are now completely inaccessible apart from to the users themselves.

It came as David Cameron, the Prime Minister, pleaded with the public and MPs to back his raft of new surveillance measures.

He said terrorists, paedophiles and criminals must not be allowed a “safe space” online.
...


The framing battle cries "for the children!" or "to thwart terrorism!" are getting a little tiresome, even with a British accent.

quote:


Source: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/28/government_will_not_pass_laws_to_ban_encryption_says_baroness_shields/
...
"The question remains, are we going to allow a means of communication where it simply isn't possible to [intercept]?" Cameron continued. "And my answer to that is: no, we must not. The first duty of any government is to keep our country and our people safe."


I thought the first duty of government was to protect the rights of its citizens...
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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/4/2015 5:05:25 AM   
bounty44


Posts: 6374
Joined: 11/1/2014
Status: offline 		I think its an interesting topic but my first question is, exactly how does this interfere with the rights of citizens?

the key word I saw in what you quoted was "warrant"---so legal processes would remain intact to protect law abiding people from government snooping.

I wonder if the more troubling aspect of the story is the government attempting to tell private businesses what they can or cannot offer to their consumers.

< Message edited by bounty44 -- 11/4/2015 5:36:32 AM >

(in reply to ifmaz)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/4/2015 5:49:36 AM   
dreamlady


Posts: 737
Joined: 9/13/2007
From: Western MD
Status: offline 		Oh dear, wandered into the wrong forum. I know Lucy comes around P&R, but I don't think Akasha ever posts here.

Indirectly related, but this reminds me of a piece I saw on the Silk Road and the wtf-dark-side-of-the-web, the black whatever where TOR operates. But more significantly, what are apparently 4th Amendment violations wherein the govt won't disclose how they went about locating servers in Iceland to track down the man they have charged with being the dastardly mastermind, the Dread Pirate Roberts.

Now, to get to the part that interests me on a personal level. Ladies, don't you think that sexy dreamboat Robert Pattinson would be perfect to play the accused? <fans self> It's times like these what I wouldn't give to be 20 years younger. . . .)

DreamLady

Edit - typo

< Message edited by dreamlady -- 11/4/2015 6:03:04 AM >

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(in reply to ifmaz)
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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/4/2015 6:26:03 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		Well, that legislation would totally fuck any encrypted communications that our military uses.

I know, I wrote it.... more than 25 years ago.
It uses 128-byte (not bit) double encryption that is totally destructive.
There is no key stored within the files or the messages and it doesn't use the usual 'encrypt and delete the source' methodology.

Maybe those stoopid law-makers have no idea. lol.
Or perhaps, the military are exempt from such laws???

If we ever got a 'Snowden' episode here, they'd be completely fucked.


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(in reply to ifmaz)
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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/4/2015 10:32:27 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz

quote:


Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11970391/Internet-firms-to-be-banned-from-offering-out-of-reach-communications-under-new-laws.html

Companies such as Apple, Google and others will no longer be able to offer encryption so advanced that even they cannot decipher it when asked to under the Investigatory Powers Bill

Internet and social media companies will be banned from putting customer communications beyond their own reach under new laws to be unveiled on Wednesday.

Companies such as Apple, Google and others will no longer be able to offer encryption so advanced that even they cannot decipher it when asked to, the Daily Telegraph can disclose.

Measures in the Investigatory Powers Bill will place in law a requirement on tech firms and service providers to be able to provide unencrypted communications to the police or spy agencies if requested through a warrant.

The move follows concerns that a growing number of encryption services are now completely inaccessible apart from to the users themselves.

It came as David Cameron, the Prime Minister, pleaded with the public and MPs to back his raft of new surveillance measures.

He said terrorists, paedophiles and criminals must not be allowed a “safe space” online.
...


The framing battle cries "for the children!" or "to thwart terrorism!" are getting a little tiresome, even with a British accent.

quote:


Source: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/28/government_will_not_pass_laws_to_ban_encryption_says_baroness_shields/
...
"The question remains, are we going to allow a means of communication where it simply isn't possible to [intercept]?" Cameron continued. "And my answer to that is: no, we must not. The first duty of any government is to keep our country and our people safe."


I thought the first duty of government was to protect the rights of its citizens...


wouldnt that also make bitcoin illegal?

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(in reply to ifmaz)
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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/4/2015 10:51:22 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz

quote:


Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11970391/Internet-firms-to-be-banned-from-offering-out-of-reach-communications-under-new-laws.html

Companies such as Apple, Google and others will no longer be able to offer encryption so advanced that even they cannot decipher it when asked to under the Investigatory Powers Bill

Internet and social media companies will be banned from putting customer communications beyond their own reach under new laws to be unveiled on Wednesday.

Companies such as Apple, Google and others will no longer be able to offer encryption so advanced that even they cannot decipher it when asked to, the Daily Telegraph can disclose.

Measures in the Investigatory Powers Bill will place in law a requirement on tech firms and service providers to be able to provide unencrypted communications to the police or spy agencies if requested through a warrant.

The move follows concerns that a growing number of encryption services are now completely inaccessible apart from to the users themselves.

It came as David Cameron, the Prime Minister, pleaded with the public and MPs to back his raft of new surveillance measures.

He said terrorists, paedophiles and criminals must not be allowed a “safe space” online.
...


The framing battle cries "for the children!" or "to thwart terrorism!" are getting a little tiresome, even with a British accent.

quote:


Source: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/10/28/government_will_not_pass_laws_to_ban_encryption_says_baroness_shields/
...
"The question remains, are we going to allow a means of communication where it simply isn't possible to [intercept]?" Cameron continued. "And my answer to that is: no, we must not. The first duty of any government is to keep our country and our people safe."


I thought the first duty of government was to protect the rights of its citizens...




Well, it is a Tory government, and they have no desire to protect the rights of their citizens, much like our nutsuckers here at home.

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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/4/2015 12:00:03 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Well, it is a Tory government, and they have no desire to protect the rights of their citizens, much like our nutsuckers here at home.

You're not wrong there, Ron.

All they are interested in doing is covering their own ass and feathering their nests.
Have you ever seen a 'poor' politician?? I haven't.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to mnottertail)
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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/4/2015 2:06:55 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline 		The 4th Reich is coming kinkroids, whether you wish to believe it or not. (in the US and the UK)

The 'terrorist' is and will be, the 'gift' that keeps on giving. Giving govt. the power to eventually strip the people off all rights. Simply a must, to keep you safe from [him.]

I joke with cashiers at the grocery store to swipe my 'shoppers' card, and tell the govt. what I buy there. Soon, they won't be laughing anymore. Grasp the very concept people, that a Snowden speaks truth to power, is now a hanging offense to so many...is a tell and an obvious one. We are witness to a slow conversion into a new social ideology. There's an OP there.



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Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite.
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(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/4/2015 5:05:50 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Well, that legislation would totally fuck any encrypted communications that our military uses.
I know, I wrote it.... more than 25 years ago.
It uses 128-byte (not bit) double encryption that is totally destructive.
There is no key stored within the files or the messages and it doesn't use the usual 'encrypt and delete the source' methodology.
Maybe those stoopid law-makers have no idea. lol.
Or perhaps, the military are exempt from such laws???
If we ever got a 'Snowden' episode here, they'd be completely fucked.


We can't have private companies just encrypting things too much, but, the technology has been created to do so, so it has to be used. Who better to hide their goings on than the US Federal government and the DoD?



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What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/4/2015 5:08:07 PM   
ifmaz


Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Well, that legislation would totally fuck any encrypted communications that our military uses.

I know, I wrote it.... more than 25 years ago.
It uses 128-byte (not bit) double encryption that is totally destructive.
There is no key stored within the files or the messages and it doesn't use the usual 'encrypt and delete the source' methodology.
...


Shenanigans.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/4/2015 5:15:18 PM   
dcnovice


Posts: 37282
Joined: 8/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Have you ever seen a 'poor' politician?? I haven't.

I wouldn't go so far as to say Woodrow Wilson and Harry Truman were poor, but they weren't particularly rich either.

ETA: Ditto for Calvin Coolidge.

< Message edited by dcnovice -- 11/4/2015 5:18:27 PM >

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it's never enough to keep up.

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INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/6/2015 11:28:42 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Truman was pretty rich for someone who could not hold a job or make a business work. Wilson was a racist who got a pretty good pay check from the university...but clearly not wealthy.

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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/6/2015 12:27:57 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Well, that legislation would totally fuck any encrypted communications that our military uses.

I know, I wrote it.... more than 25 years ago.
It uses 128-byte (not bit) double encryption that is totally destructive.
There is no key stored within the files or the messages and it doesn't use the usual 'encrypt and delete the source' methodology.
...


Shenanigans.


I worked for the military behind the scenes.
I know a lot of what went on and my part in it all.
Like a dutiful soldier - I did was I paid to do.

The point I was making was that they are trying to make something that the private companies can be forced to hand over if the secret services require it.
Snowden-style revelations wouldn't work on encrypted military systems and should such a thing require to be unraveled to expose wrong-doings, they'd be completely fucked because all they could hand over would be the encrypted info for code-breakers to figure out.

Sort-of defeats the point of having such a law doesn't it?
Smacks of one rule for them and another rule for everyone else.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to ifmaz)
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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/6/2015 2:34:24 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
Smacks of one rule for them and another rule for everyone else.


Welcome to the US. And people wonder why we're wary of our Federal Government.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/6/2015 2:40:44 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline 		Welcome to the US. And people wonder why we're wary of our Federal Government.

If the people elect the government then would it not be the people that we should be wary of?

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 11/6/2015 2:41:32 PM >

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/6/2015 2:43:42 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Indeed most countries are very wary of their 'conservatives' in the government.

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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/8/2015 11:01:29 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		My turn.

These assholes will never ever do what they want. Let me tell you about encryption - do not try to say too much. I shall explain.

I call Jim. I say I am looking for metal. that means I want to buy a gun. He shows up with a breifcase full of them, take my pick and pay the money.

I call Rollo. I say "can you stop over ?". That means I want some weed. There is another guy like that with another substance which shall remain unnamed.

There are a few people I call and say "We got a problem" and they show up with guns.

The best encryption is no encryption these days. I call you and say "I want to buy those handguns they won't sell me because of the background check that you stole in that armed robbery last month at the gun show". Know what happens ? NOTHING. I pick up a Berretta and a couple of nice Rugers and NOTHING happens. Guaranteed.

My Uncle used to get a magazine that openly advertised missiles. MISSILES ! Come on here. I can understand being pissed off at your neighbors but that is short range. You cannot use those missiles on your nextdoor neighbors.

IT IS A MAD MAD MAD WORLD

Remember that ?

T^T

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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/8/2015 11:31:19 AM   
ifmaz


Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Well, that legislation would totally fuck any encrypted communications that our military uses.

I know, I wrote it.... more than 25 years ago.
It uses 128-byte (not bit) double encryption that is totally destructive.
There is no key stored within the files or the messages and it doesn't use the usual 'encrypt and delete the source' methodology.
...


Shenanigans.


I worked for the military behind the scenes.
I know a lot of what went on and my part in it all.
Like a dutiful soldier - I did was I paid to do.

The point I was making was that they are trying to make something that the private companies can be forced to hand over if the secret services require it.
Snowden-style revelations wouldn't work on encrypted military systems and should such a thing require to be unraveled to expose wrong-doings, they'd be completely fucked because all they could hand over would be the encrypted info for code-breakers to figure out.

Sort-of defeats the point of having such a law doesn't it?
Smacks of one rule for them and another rule for everyone else.


Are you suggesting the military uses non-off the shelf encryption algorithms? If so, shenanigans again.

Governments have always had rules for the populace and "rules" for itself. The UK equivalent of the NSA, the GCHQ, sniffing its own military traffic would be rather silly.

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RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/8/2015 11:44:16 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
My Uncle used to get a magazine that openly advertised missiles. MISSILES ! Come on here. I can understand being pissed off at your neighbors but that is short range. You cannot use those missiles on your nextdoor neighbors.


In the country, your neighbors could be a half mile away. Depending on the missile, you might be able to "safely" use a missile. lol


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Internet firms to be banned from offering unbreakab... - 11/8/2015 1:55:18 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline 		David Cameron's proposed encryption ban would 'destroy the internet'. Here's some thoughts from Bruce Schneier, a highly respected American cryptographer and security expert who firmly believes Cameron is attempting to make Britain into a police state http://uk.businessinsider.com/bruce-schneier-david-cameron-proposed-encryption-ban-destroy-the-internet-2015-7

I don't want to be part of this country any more.

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Profile   Post #: 20
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