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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 6:01:47 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: kdsub

I guess I missed where the Westboro Baptist Church members blew up buildings killing 3,000 and murdered 128 innocents in France...

It would appear that the score card is more improtant than the issue.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 6:05:51 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD

I think someone needs to interject into this a couple of facts.
A Since the rise of ISIS they have murdered more Molems than Christians.

What is your point?

B Since the rise of ISIS more of them have been killed by "moderate" M9olems than by the west.

I it possible that the rise of isis might be a direct result of the usa pressence in the sandbox and all the death caused thereby?

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 6:10:37 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: kdsub

How is it absurd to want economic pressure to force the Saudi's...and the Pakistani's...and the Egyptians...and the rest of the Muslim world to crack down on the radicals among them...


By extension how about if those countries created an economic boycot on the usa until they "crack down" on the radicals in the usa. Remember the presidential candidate singing bomb bomb bomb iran?



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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 6:14:29 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic


Bill kristol again is saying we should be sending troops out by the tens of thousands.
Why is he willing to sacrifice american lives to kill an idea.
fucking moronic turd


Do you remember the little punks in hi-school who always wanted "you and someone not him" to fight? How bout if mr.kristol were to join up and put on his duce gear and put his balls where his mouth is?

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 6:17:46 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: kdsub

I guess I missed where the Westboro Baptist Church members blew up buildings killing 3,000 and murdered 128 innocents in France... I need to read the ifmaz news more often.

Butch

Did you miss the part where the usa sent troops and drones to kill non christians?

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 6:59:39 AM   
mnottertail


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyranwrap


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

you need to spell. and you come out here with blowholing hot air and geysers of fucking stupidity, and expect that people don't see you as a fucking dipshit?

You need some education. You need some facts. You need to not preach your bolshevik asswipe to adults.

I have asked you how many times for a definition of conservatism? the answer of course is you have no idea. You watch the news programs, you watch your political satire, and that is your definition of conservatism.
You do what all political wanks do call names, and really are the know nothing of society.


I have asked you repeatedly for your definition of POLITICAL conservative. As you have asked me. You are of course completely clueless, as demonstrated by your post not knowing what a liberal is.

I think that as an example Aethelred the Unready was a political conservative. I think that George Washington who would have sided with the british had they made him a general as he asked was at that time a political conservative.

Nobody gives a fuck about your definition, however; because it is certainly wrong.



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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 7:20:55 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Did you miss the part where the usa sent troops and drones to kill non christians?


Yeah, yeah ... But Obama doing that had nothing to do with being a Christian. Any Muslim, though, from anywhere in the world ... *everything* he does, or wants to do, or even wants to do without yet being conscious that he wants to do it ... that's *entirely* down to what's written in the Koran.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 7:31:48 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Did you miss the part where the usa sent troops and drones to kill non christians?[/quote]

Yeah, yeah ... But Obama doing that had nothing to do with being a Christian. Any Muslim, though, from anywhere in the world ... *everything* he does, or wants to do, or even wants to do without yet being conscious that he wants to do it ... that's *entirely* down to what's written in the Koran.


We have been told that the black guy with the big ears is a "secret" muslim so how does that play into the big pic?

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 8:28:42 AM   
zombiegurlsos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Did you miss the part where the usa sent troops and drones to kill non christians?


Yeah, yeah ... But Obama doing that had nothing to do with being a Christian. Any Muslim, though, from anywhere in the world ... *everything* he does, or wants to do, or even wants to do without yet being conscious that he wants to do it ... that's *entirely* down to what's written in the Koran.


We have been told that the black guy with the big ears is a "secret" muslim so how does that play into the big pic?



you don't make sense with all this hyperbole.... your introducing

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 8:31:17 AM   
zombiegurlsos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: kdsub

How is it absurd to want economic pressure to force the Saudi's...and the Pakistani's...and the Egyptians...and the rest of the Muslim world to crack down on the radicals among them...


By extension how about if those countries created an economic boycot on the usa until they "crack down" on the radicals in the usa. Remember the presidential candidate singing bomb bomb bomb iran?






Because other Muslims from other Muslim countries treat each other very un-islamic a great deal of the time....

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 11:00:01 AM   
Musicmystery


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http://qz.com/550104/muslims-around-the-world-condemn-terrorism-after-the-paris-attacks/

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 11:16:41 AM   
zombiegurlsos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

As to the atheist... Hitler and Stalin were atheists and wrecked more than they built...

That must have been how stalin defeated the germans and the japs.


Russia didn't defeat anyone with their own weapons did they? so back to topic maybe?

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 11:20:35 AM   
zombiegurlsos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

http://qz.com/550104/muslims-around-the-world-condemn-terrorism-after-the-paris-attacks/



You do know we are not in disagreement on Muslim views of ISIS.... but hyperbole answers when I correctly posted this: Because other Muslims from other Muslim countries treat each other very un-islamic a great deal of the time.... stop pushen my leg please Musicmystery

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 11:43:23 AM   
Lucylastic


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http://www.npr.org/2014/09/25/351277631/prominent-muslim-sheikh-issues-fatwa-against-isis-violence

In a speech before the U.N. General Assembly laying out a blueprint for the global battle against the group that calls itself the Islamic State, President Obama called on the world to take a stand against religious extremism. "The ideology of ISIL or al-Qaida or Boko Haram will wilt and die if it is consistently exposed and confronted and refuted in the light of day," Obama said.

Then he singled out one organization and one man leading that charge: the new Forum for Promoting Peace in Muslim Societies and Sheik Abdullah bin Bayyah. Describing the group's purpose, the sheik said, "We must declare war on war so the outcome will be peace upon peace."

Bin Bayyah, 79, is a prominent Muslim cleric and, as a respected religious scholar, has issued edicts to explain why groups such as the so-called Islamic State, also known as ISIL or ISIS, are misguided and should reverse course.

Last week, key clerics from the Muslim world issued two fatwas, or religious edicts, against the group.

One came from senior religious leaders in Saudi Arabia, and the other came from bin Bayyah. His fatwa calls for dialogue about the true tenets of Islam and, over the course of many pages, questions just about everything for which ISIS says it stands. The fatwa says establishing a caliphate by force is a misreading of religious doctrine. Killing of innocents and violence, the fatwa declares, are wrong too.

Bin Bayyah said in an interview with NPR that he hopes the religious ruling will slow the group's momentum. "Primarily [the fatwa] is really about addressing the mistakes, and it's really warning them and advising them that what you are doing is clearly wrong," he said.

Bin Bayyah is known as a scholar's scholar. He was born in the North African country of Mauritania and studied in Islamic centers there. He served as a judge of the High Court in Mauritania and had a number of ministerial positions. Now he's a lecturer at the Aziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.

If you don't defeat the ideas intellectually, then the ideas will re-emerge.


What's more, when it comes to interpreting religious doctrine to curb violence, he has a track record. He issued a fatwa in May against Boko Haram, the Nigerian terrorist group responsible for kidnapping hundreds of schoolgirls, to great effect.

Officials there said it had an impact on the nature of the conversation in Nigeria. Christians and Muslims came together in a way they hadn't before bin Bayyah interceded, said William Vendley, the secretary-general of Religions for Peace, a global multi-religion organization that works in 90 countries. Sheik bin Bayyah is a member of the group.

"Within the discussion of the Islamic community and far beyond it, it is a vital voice at a vital moment for authentic teaching," Vendley said. "He's providing a counterexample to all this violent extremism. He's providing the counternarrative. It's not a cure-all pill. It won't stop everything, we know that, but without it, where are we?"

When a figure like Sheik bin Bayyah issues a fatwa, it doesn't have an immediate effect. Instead, it filters down, from scholars to teachers, to local imams to people on the street.

"This isn't going to stop a young Muslim based in Europe or the U.S. who is going to fight for ISIS — I don't think this will alter that person's decision calculus," said Peter Mandaville, a professor of Islamic studies at George Mason University. "What it will do is give those who might otherwise sit this out an argument, something to think about. It shows that the things that ISIS does, its objectives, the methods it uses, have no basis in classical Islamic jurisprudence and teaching."

Bin Bayyah, for his part, said he has no illusions that a fatwa will stop the violence overnight. "These people won't suddenly lay down their weapons and come to the peace table," he said. "But in the middle range and the long range, if enough scholars come on board and really begin to address these issues at this level, the level of ideas, it will have an impact, lessening the effects of the radicalization of the youth. But it is going to take time."

Military Tactics Against ISIS Aren't Enough

He said it is time worth spending because military action alone — airstrikes and Tomahawk missiles — won't work. "The problem is that even if you defeat these ideas militarily by killing the people, if you don't defeat the ideas intellectually, then the ideas will re-emerge."

That's what his Forum for Promoting Peace in Muslim Societies is trying to do, Vendley and Mandaville said. It hopes to correct concepts of Islam that have been hijacked by extremists.

Still, bin Bayyah is somewhat controversial in the U.S. His detractors say he's anti-Semitic and that he has called the killing of American soldiers in Iraq justified. Those criticisms are linked to his role as a vice president of the International Union of Muslim Scholars, an organization headquartered in Qatar and headed by Yusuf al-Qaradawi. Al-Qaradawi is an Egyptian theologian who has close links to the Muslim Brotherhood.

And while bin Bayyah has never formally broken with al-Qaradawi, he said he left the International Union of Muslim Scholars a year ago because he didn't agree with many of the group's positions. He added that he tried to change the group from the inside and decided he could be more effective starting his own organization to promote peace.

At the U.N. on Wednesday, Obama said it was time for the Muslim world to explicitly reject the violent ideologies that fuel terrorism, and I asked bin Bayyah what he thought of people who left home to join forces with ISIS. "I actually consider these people to be mentally imbalanced," he said, "and I personally stand behind that statement. These people don't have religious knowledge, so their understanding is shallow and they are completely incorrect."

< Message edited by Lucylastic -- 11/16/2015 11:46:01 AM >


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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 12:23:06 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

I am guessing London will be on full alert but the friendly football match with France is still going ahead on Tuesday. After the 2005 London bombings the city was as busy as ever the next day, it was the same during the IRA bombings.


I was on the phone with my dad tonight, talking about the IRA versus ISIS. He was stationed in London in the Met through the worst of the IRA campaigns. 'God', he said, 'ISIS make the IRA look like a bunch of teddy bears'.

Terrorism has evolved.. but in comparison, the IRA targeted a relatively small area whereas ISIS can strike anywhere in the world.. People in Canada or the US didnt worry about the IRA attacking over here.. Today, apparently as a result of the events in Paris, 7 states here have stopped accepting Syrian refugees..

I dont think ISIS is any more violent that what goes on in parts of Africa (where terrorism & violence is a daily threat) tho..

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 12:30:17 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Today, apparently as a result of the events in Paris, 7 states here have stopped accepting Syrian refugees..


Oh dear. But is there anywhere - say, much nearer to them - where Syrian refugees can go and get a warm welcome? Why yes, there is! Into the arms of ISIL!

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 1:07:09 PM   
adrift


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Where does the Islamic State get it's funding?:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29004253

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/how-is-islamic-state-funded/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-wagner/why-there-is-no-stopping-_b_7518012.html

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/14/america-s-allies-are-funding-isis.html

Makes for some interesting reading if one has the time.

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 1:17:11 PM   
MariaB


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Very interesting post Lucy.
Thanks for that

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 1:23:53 PM   
tj444


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Today, apparently as a result of the events in Paris, 7 states here have stopped accepting Syrian refugees..


Oh dear. But is there anywhere - say, much nearer to them - where Syrian refugees can go and get a warm welcome? Why yes, there is! Into the arms of ISIL!

If they are so inclined, perhaps.. but they can turn to them no matter where in the world they are (as did the Marathon bombers), and that is the problem.. govts have seen this happen before and dont want their head on a stick by voters/Americans should they "let in" the wrong person..

Supposedly the "mastermind" of the Paris attacks is a Belgian national.. to me there is a parallel to the Marathon bombers (former refugees)... they were given a chance at a good life and for whatever reason they became disillusioned and turned to terrorism.. I dont understand that mentality... yeah, i get that the US is a shit hole where many people lead a less than stellar life but ffs that is better than living in a war-zone in your home country, surely.. And what makes the mid-east refugees more at risk of becoming terrorists than Mexican/S American refugees? cuz I have never heard of any Mexican refugee (fleeing cartel violence, etc) turning into a terrorist before..

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RE: Paris under attack - 11/16/2015 1:36:50 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

i get that the US is a shit hole


How do you like your part of the shit hole?

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