RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys?

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[Poll]

Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys?

Allow all penetration

65% (40)

Allow only toys penetration

8% (5)

No penetration

26% (16)

Total Votes : 61

(last vote on : 2/4/2008 4:17:54 AM)
(Poll will run till: -- )

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 2:21:15 PM

puella

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If you host a party in your own home, is it still illegal?

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 2:33:47 PM

Evanesce

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We host parties in our home frequently. In fact, starting in September, we will be having one once a month. Because the party is in our home (thus, private), we have no problem if people want to engage in any form of sexual penetration, as long as they clean up after themselves. We keep a supply of ViraGuard disposable anti-viral wipes available for the cleaning of equipment, should body fluids come into contact with them, and we have several rooms which can be made private, should people not wish to be observed. Even though it is allowed, however, only rarely does anyone actually have intercourse at a party.

If we were hosting a party in a more public venue, such as a hotel or other rented establishment, we'd feel differently about allowing penetration.

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 2:42:57 PM

LotusSong

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And then there is this:

Anyone can fuck.. it takes talent to do the BDSM :)

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 2:51:47 PM

stef

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Heh, if that were only true. When I was still going to public parties, I spent a fair bit of time watching other people's scenes. I've seen so many people flogged on their kidneys that I joked about opening a "scene friendly" dialysis clinic for them.

~stef

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 2:56:00 PM

MasterRenegade77

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As Long as there are no laws being broken & it's SS&C I say Go for the gold!!!

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 4:32:19 PM

bandit25

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Makes no difference to me either way. I doubt that I would engage in it, but it doesn't bother me when others do it.

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 4:35:14 PM

crouchingtigress

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i just looked at the results and i have only one thing to say.....you fuckers!

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 4:53:23 PM

Alumbrado

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quote:

If you host a party in your own home, is it still illegal?

Depends on the jurisdiction, and the mindset of the prosecutor, but in general, if there is anything resembling money involved (doesn't matter if you call it 'donations', 'memberships', or whatever), and sexual activity, it is irrelevant who owns/rents the property, it is open to being treated as prostitution....including the arrest of all present, active or not.

Now a totally private home where absolutely no trace of money is involved would be another matter, but that isn't what many folks mean when they say 'scene party'.
They mean an organized group.staging an event, where somebody is exchanging money for attending.

< Message edited by Alumbrado -- 7/18/2006 4:54:22 PM >

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 5:15:36 PM

SweetSarijane

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It's doubtful I would engage in it, but I have no problem with it if others do it. I've seen sexual scenes at parties.

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 5:23:12 PM

CrappyDom

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As someone who has run clubs and owned one public playspace and am involved with another on some level, let me tell you what I know. Now this goes for California but applies to many other states.

BDSM is sex as far as precedent is concerned. So many prodommes have been arrested for BDSM without sex that the precedent is clearly set.

I know of a playspace that is in a private neighborhood that the police know about and the locals complain about. The cops make it clear that people are allowed to fuck in private. If they sold tickets publicly, it would then become a public event and various nudity laws would come into play.

Some places making it a members only space has the same effect which is why many strip clubs require membership.

Since there isn't a state in the union that doesn't have public BDSM dungeons, most who allow penetration on some level, this seems to me to settle the matter rather nicely.

I ran a dungeon in a very conservative small farming town, the cops knew about the space, even did a walk through one night. They left, shook hands and never returned.

In San Francisco, they shut an entire city street down and we party openly and beat each other silly in broad daylight.

If you are worried, exchange money for admission prior to the event, make it clear the money is for food/entry and nothing more and you are fine.

Bottom line if the cops/DA want to fuck with you there is NOTHING to protect you other than a mean ass attorney.

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 5:41:40 PM

Alumbrado

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Exchanging money before hand, or calling it a membership, has failed to impress the courts on many occasions. Why do you think they prosecute 'escort services'?

We aren't talking about nude dancing or flogging here, we are talking about sexual penetration in a place where money has been paid..

It is prostitution if it meets the elements of the crime, and money plus penetration is going to do just that.

If someone is lucky enough to find a judge or jury who will buy their story, good for them but how dare they presume to expect other people to take a chance on getting arrested for/with them?

So far nobody seems willing to answer that one simple question.

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 6:09:58 PM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

i just looked at the results and i have only one thing to say.....you fuckers!

I damn near broke my jaw holding the swallow of coffee in my mouth when I read this. Soooooooooooo unfair, tigress.

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 7:36:36 PM

LotusSong

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: crouchingtigress

i just looked at the results and i have only one thing to say.....you fuckers!

I damn near broke my jaw holding the swallow of coffee in my mouth when I read this. Soooooooooooo unfair, tigress.

Yup.. we walked right into that one!!!

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 8:45:16 PM

SusanofO

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Well, I am shy, and also a newbie, so it would have to be a very small party (3-8 people). And I would need to feel completely protected by my Dominant against doing things I had no desire to do (except with him). I am a beginner- a beginner.

- Susan

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/18/2006 9:01:58 PM

CrappyDom

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Alumbrado,

Ante up, I want links. What states are you talking about?

There are any number of states with dungeons that take out ads in local newspapers that operate day in and day out. If they don't bust those, why on earth are they going to fuck with a tiny house full of people?

So, lets see some back up for your claims.

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/19/2006 12:52:29 AM

KennelDeSade2

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While I voted allow all, I am of the opinion that for the most part if you are gonna have sex, do so at home. Dungeon space is what people have the least of at home, and it seems a poor use of facilities.

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/19/2006 1:01:11 AM

shivvy

Posts: 746
Joined: 3/25/2006
From: Ireland, living in Kent, England.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? And why?

i voted allow all. i live in england and when i woz with my first Master, we used to go to this "club" on a boat, and basically "anything" went... i'm sure negotiations did take place, and Master woz always nearby to look after me, but i neva took part in talking about stuff. i wasn't there to chat

luv,

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/19/2006 11:10:38 AM

perverseangelic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KennelDeSade2

While I voted allow all, I am of the opinion that for the most part if you are gonna have sex, do so at home. Dungeon space is what people have the least of at home, and it seems a poor use of facilities.

True, but there are many of us for whom the fucking is tied to the use of dungeon space and facilities. Sure, we can have sex on our bed/dresser/couch at home, but we -don't- have access to various bondage-furniture that makings hitting and sex a one-stop thing.

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/19/2006 12:21:58 PM

Alumbrado

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Here are some legal definitions regarding money and sex equating to prostitution...

quote:

Almost all states have laws making it illegal to engage in, promote, or profit from prostitution. The term "prostitution" generally means the commission by a person of any natural or unnatural sexual act, deviate sexual intercourse, or sexual contact for monetary consideration or other thing of value....

...The following is an example of a New Mexico statute defining prostitution:
"Prostitution consists of knowingly engaging in or offering to engage in a sexual act for hire. As used in this section "sexual act" means sexual intercourse, cunnilingus, fellatio, masturbation of another, anal intercourse or the causing of penetration to any extent and with any object of the genital or anal opening of another, whether or not there is any emission. Whoever commits prostitution is guilty of a petty misdemeanor, unless such crime is a second or subsequent conviction, in which case such person is guilty of a misdemeanor."

http://www.uslegalforms.com/legaldefinitions/prostitution/

quote:

...The following is an example of an Arizona law defining a brothel:
"House of prostitution" means any building, structure or place used for the purpose of prostitution or lewdness or where acts of prostitution occur."

www.uslegalforms.com/legaldefinitions/brothel

Pennsylvania:
http://members.aol.com/StatutesP8/18PA5902.html

And elsewhere:

quote:

Prostitution laws make it a crime in most states to offer, agree to, or engage in a sexual act for compensation. Depending upon applicable state law, the stages of a typical prostitution "transaction" can involve charges against the provider of services (for "prostitution"), the customer paying for the services (for "solicitation of prostitution"), and any middleman (for "pandering" or "pimping").

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/prostitution.html

And here are some clubs and their policies...
Dallas:

quote:

CLUB/DUNGEON RULES. 1.Use of alcoholic beverages or drugs will not be tolerated ... I.e. NO penetration or Masturbation. This means no fingers, toys, tongue or penis ...

www.sanctuarylifestyle.com/clubrules.htm

From the Iron Rose site:

quote:

Most SM clubs and private parties have rules regarding what is and what is not allowed. These can be as simple as "No penetration" to a list which goes on for ever. Make yourself aware of the rules before you start to play. If your not sure, ask the DM or host.

http://www.iron-rose.com/IR/docs/etiq.htm

From TES:

quote:

No penetration, oral sex or exchanging of body fluids is ever allowed at TES meetings or functions. No solicitation for sexual services is allowed at TES meetings.

http://www.tes.org/publications/past_weekly/thisweek031802.html

And you've already been given examples of cases where dungeons/parties were raided for a variety of reasons.

I really don't understand your problem with people taking preacutions against winding up in court...if you have a crusade against prostitution laws (not a bad thing to be against in any case), why do you expect others to take the chance for your beliefs?

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RE: Should penetration be the permitted of scene partys? - 7/19/2006 12:27:02 PM

tangldupinblue

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i worked on staff (staff mind not expert)at a big convention in Dc, i'm sure most know which one, but fisting was allowed in the dungeons. i'm not sure where that falls into any legal issues...i'm just sayin.

blue

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