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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 2:49:00 AM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Been thinking about the cost of the Air War against ISIS. We are purchasing the F35 to replace the A10. Huge cost involved. The A10 was specifically purchased for ground target operations. So was the AC`130. The P51 was also very effective against ground targets during WWII and Korea. The air war against doesn't appear to involve areial combat. Why not purchase More and upgraded copies of these older aircraft to do the job for which they were so effective against? Just pondering cost vs benefit.

With the current rules of engagement http://www.military.com/daily-news/2015/11/21/a10-pilot-justified-in-isis-airstrike-that-killed-four-civilians.html I think the benefit outweighs the cost of the new fleets.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 11:55:59 AM   
Marc2b


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Status: offline 		Uhm . . . okay . . . good . . . so it looks like CS is back and the air and is going to stick around (I had my doubts but that's a topic of another thread).

Thanks to everyone who responded. While I am dubious that we will "do it right" I do remain optimistic that Daesh will ultimately be defeated.

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 2:28:39 PM   
Hillwilliam


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Status: offline 		How to kill DAESH.

Stop the flow of their money.
They seem to be one of the first terrorist orgs who use a LOT of modern weaponry.
Modern weaponry is great for killing people and killing/defending itself against other modern weaponry but it is a huge cash suck.
Stop the flow of oil money to DAESH and you stop their weapons.

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 2:55:51 PM   
LookieNoNookie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

If you want to look at the problem as a military problem and the defeat of Daesh as the criterion of success, easy to accomplish
then the solution is simple and need not cost many lives at all.

Cutting off Daesh's supply lines from Turkey would isolate the 'Caliphate',completely encircling it. Cutting off oil exports from areas under Deash's control would eventually cripple Deash financially. With no funds or new recruits coming in, no supplies to replenish its armaments and no escape route, Daesh would be doomed. Its collapse would be a certainty, simply a matter of time.

Would this solve the problem? Al Quada was thoroughly defeated in military terms to the extent that outside a few isolated areas such as Yemen and Somalia, it is totally ineffective today. But this military defeat didn't solve the problem. Another more radical organisation - IS - took Al Quada's place. The 'war' was won but the peace was 'lost'.

So while defeating IS militarily is a straightforward proposition, there is no guarantee that this will mean the end of the problem of Islamist terrorism. A far more sophisticated strategy is needed to win both the 'war' and the 'peace'.


Well stated.

That does, however, require rational and equal negotiations amongst all divided/opposing parties.

ISIS is unfortunately, not interested in that....as pertains to their doctrine (and it's spelled out on their websites....without any equivocation)...they will be thrilled with the entire elimination of the Western culture and, if you are not Muslim, you must die. They also are clear that, if this world war begins....that 2/3rds of their own brethren will die as well....and that's okay....so long as the west is eliminated.

Do all Muslims believe this?

Do rational thinking, peace loving Muslims believe this?

No...not even most but....the ones that want to see us die.....do.

And those people cannot be ameliorated with "understanding".

Period.

And they, now....must face the consequences. No longer waiting for a discussion of peace.

It is no longer a discussion of...."these people need jobs" or "we need to understand them" or "they simply haven't had time to evolve their "book" in to the 21st century".

They have to go. Away. Forever.

Like a disease.

Because if they do not....we will stand alone, on every and any street corner, waiting for their scimitar to eviscerate us.

This is no longer a scenario of us trying to "get along".

It's time for them to die.

(Add oddly.....they actually encourage that and so....we should appease their interest in same).

< Message edited by LookieNoNookie -- 11/24/2015 3:21:28 PM >

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 2:57:34 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		blnymph...................yes. To defeat an enemy that doesn't fight on your terms, you have to become worse than that enemy to the point where they will quit because they know what sort of retaliation to expect. No, I am not a war-monger; that is why I prefer to see any war that IS going on, over and done as quickly as possible. The war-mongers are the ones who weep, wail and wring their hands and tie the military up in rules and regulations that STOP them ending those wars. Thus the war, the casualties and the deaths continue.

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 7:21:14 PM   
Greta75


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Status: offline 		Dvr, I can't agree more! It's basically down to that. I mean, if you caught a terrorist but bombs were already wired every where, and red tape says you can't even water board him. Hell, I'm sure most terrorist are tough enough to survive waterboarding anyway.

But red tape says now, you gotta treat him so humanely, these men are trained to withstand all tortures.

Those bombs are probably gonna go off, not being able to hit him where it really hurts to get info. Because the part where it really hurts is to hit his family. Most people are prepared to take hardships and pain themselves, but will break if it involves getting their families hurt.

Fortunately this is not a problem in my country, I'm sure there is no holds barred treatment of the terrorist if one is captured if there a time bomb ticking away somewhere.

But if I were living in America, I would be worried about the security, as the ones trying to protect them aren't given enough leeway to do all the ugly things that is needed.

I think sometimes to protect innocent majority, from some really vicious criminals, they gotta be even more vicious when dealing with them.

But as socialist loving the French people are, I know they are tough in the military, and don't have those political correct problems and those terrorists will not be treated as humanely as in the US, when it comes to interrogation, they are gonna find the perpetrators and really eliminate all of them. France is already tough enough to ban the burka.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 11/24/2015 7:27:10 PM >

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 7:35:00 PM   
Dvr22999874


Posts: 2849
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Status: offline 		Basically, somebody is going to die in this shit-fight and now it's up to the generic ' you' to decide, " Is it going to be them or us ? " Choose carefully my friends because Daesh really gives you no third choice. I have made it clear what my choice is and you can call me any name you wish. I have probably been called them all, with cause, many times.
I agree with Greta too...............the French have some interesting methods of dealing with people who hurt their country or spit on their flag. I know the SDECE is still about. I wonder if ' Les Barbouzes' are still operational. I had dealings with them many years ago and if I was a would-be terrorist in France now, I would think of changing my profession to something a little less dangerous and a little less likely to annoy these people.

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 8:06:29 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

blnymph...................yes. To defeat an enemy that doesn't fight on your terms, you have to become worse than that enemy to the point where they will quit because they know what sort of retaliation to expect. No, I am not a war-monger; that is why I prefer to see any war that IS going on, over and done as quickly as possible. The war-mongers are the ones who weep, wail and wring their hands and tie the military up in rules and regulations that STOP them ending those wars. Thus the war, the casualties and the deaths continue.

A former Israeli Prime Minister put it this way: they step on your toe you break thier foot.
Then Sean Connery put it another way in the Untouchables. They put one of yours in the hospital, you put one of theirs in the morgue.

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 8:10:38 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		I have to agree with those sentiments Bama.....................they take hostages, so do we but we only take the younger boys because daesh don't care about the females. They kill one of ours; we kill ten of theirs. I am sure you will be able to find volunteers to do the job somewhere in all the countries that daesh as shit on.

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 8:15:27 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		Oh and I forgot....................you bury the bodies wrapped in pigskins and get it on video and show it on facebook for the throat cutting heroes of daesh to week and wail over

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 8:21:11 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

I have to agree with those sentiments Bama.....................they take hostages, so do we but we only take the younger boys because daesh don't care about the females. They kill one of ours; we kill ten of theirs. I am sure you will be able to find volunteers to do the job somewhere in all the countries that daesh as shit on.

We took Fallujah four times with infantry. The 2nd or 3rd time we should have turned it into a crater. Until we are willing to do that they will assume that eventually win because we are soft and weak.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 8:30:39 PM   
Dvr22999874


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Status: offline 		That would be bloody heartbreaking Bama. That is the time I would opt for the ' Pax Romani' ........................" They made it a desert and called it peace ".
We had a similar problem in North-West Africa. Luckily, our hands weren't tied by rules and regulations and bleeding-heart politicians.

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/24/2015 9:16:44 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

That would be bloody heartbreaking Bama. That is the time I would opt for the ' Pax Romani' ........................" They made it a desert and called it peace ".
We had a similar problem in North-West Africa. Luckily, our hands weren't tied by rules and regulations and bleeding-heart politicians.

Turning it into a crater would be heartbreaking, but tell the families of the men who died because we didn't how important it was for us to be "nice" and avoid collateral damage.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/25/2015 12:14:43 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		LOL, but that was all talked about before we went to Iraq and it was roundly ignored by everyone.

You will have to kill every man woman and child, before that is done.


An alternative, is to arm the kurds to the teeth, tell them when they get done with ISIS, they can have their own homeland again, keep them in materiel, and meantime figure out a political way of ignoring Turkey, when they clean them out of their territory.

None of this is easy, or optimal.

< Message edited by mnottertail -- 11/25/2015 12:16:08 PM >

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/25/2015 12:39:45 PM   
NorthernGent


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Status: offline 		I still haven't worked out who ISIS are let alone DAESH or whatever they're called - never heard of 'em.

What we do is start a war on abbreviations.

Although there that many wars going on on this and that, it'd probably only last a day before we moved onto a war on something else.

The devil finds work for idle hands.



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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/25/2015 1:01:27 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

LOL, but that was all talked about before we went to Iraq and it was roundly ignored by everyone.

You will have to kill every man woman and child, before that is done.


An alternative, is to arm the kurds to the teeth, tell them when they get done with ISIS, they can have their own homeland again, keep them in materiel, and meantime figure out a political way of ignoring Turkey, when they clean them out of their territory.

None of this is easy, or optimal.

This isn't a response to anything I posted.
I will point out that I posted months ago that we should arm the Kurds and other Arabs who are willing, let them loose, and provide air support for their ground troops.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/25/2015 1:10:11 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		That is in response to your post and tell it to the families and nice and collateral damage. Horseshit. We have to kill people to take it for people dead for no cause? I posted long and hard before this war began, about this, this is not new stuff that is 'developing' it all was set in concrete with the nutsuckers invasion under knowingly false intel and their ensuing and continuing propaganda.

If you go in and slaughter these people, you will cause untold havoc in the middle east, and will create terrorists and suffer your childrens childrens childrens children with this stupidity. The kurds will break out. That is not something that has no different solution, not ever, now. Thats gonna be a done deal.


We are fucked, we are up to our necks in it, and all that we can do is arm Kurds and ignore Turkey when Daesh is gone.

Because they are going to come.


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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/25/2015 2:01:49 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

That is in response to your post and tell it to the families and nice and collateral damage. Horseshit. We have to kill people to take it for people dead for no cause? I posted long and hard before this war began, about this, this is not new stuff that is 'developing' it all was set in concrete with the nutsuckers invasion under knowingly false intel and their ensuing and continuing propaganda.

If you go in and slaughter these people, you will cause untold havoc in the middle east, and will create terrorists and suffer your childrens childrens childrens children with this stupidity. The kurds will break out. That is not something that has no different solution, not ever, now. Thats gonna be a done deal.


We are fucked, we are up to our necks in it, and all that we can do is arm Kurds and ignore Turkey when Daesh is gone.

Because they are going to come.


Then you should have put it as if that was what you were responding to.
Until we are willing to do that sort of thing they will assume we are soft and weak and that if they just keep fighting we will quit.
So you favor sacrificing Americans over doing the job completly, forget saying we shouldn't have been there, we were and it was up to our leaders to win with a minimum loss of American life.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/25/2015 9:19:11 PM   
KenDckey


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Send in the Mob

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RE: So . . . what do we do about Daesh? - 11/26/2015 9:43:57 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
I still haven't worked out who ISIS are let alone DAESH or whatever they're called - never heard of 'em.


ISIS=Islamic State in Iraq and Syria
ISIL=Islamic State in Iraq and Levant
IS=Islamic State
Daesh=not exactly sure what it is, but....

ISIS=ISIL=IS=Daesh

quote:

What we do is start a war on abbreviations.
Although there that many wars going on on this and that, it'd probably only last a day before we moved onto a war on something else.
The devil finds work for idle hands.


I think the first thing we should do is figure out why "abbreviation" is such a long fucking word!


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