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RE: Shooting in California - 12/7/2015 8:16:09 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: ifmaz


ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Do you feel joe/jane citizen should be allowed to own a 155mm pack howitzer?


Just as well: I imagine the recoil is a bit more with the 155mm.

You could always drop back to a 105...zero recoil...still a little heavy to fire from the hip

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RE: Shooting in California - 12/8/2015 3:57:45 AM   
nighthawk3569


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Do you feel joe/jane citizen should be allowed to own a 155mm pack howitzer? An f18 with missles and cannon? A nuclear weapon?


Try to keep up...there's no such thing as a 155mm 'pack' howitzer. However, Joe/Jane should be allowed to own one, if they wish to. On most city building lots, they's need to tear down their house to have room to park it, so they'd probably forgo the pleasure, in favor of a roof over their heads.

I, too, will just stick with my .45.

'hawk

< Message edited by nighthawk3569 -- 12/8/2015 4:07:09 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 302
RE: Shooting in California - 12/8/2015 7:44:27 AM   
thompsonx


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]ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Do you feel joe/jane citizen should be allowed to own a 155mm pack howitzer? An f18 with missles and cannon? A nuclear weapon?


Try to keep up...there's no such thing as a 155mm 'pack' howitzer.

Yes there is. It is as a pos and just does not work very well.

http://www.g2mil.com/155lw.htm


The Ultra-Lightweight Field Howitzer (UFH), designated XM777 (LW155) in the USA, was selected in 1997 by a joint US Army/Marine Corps initiative to replace the existing inventory of M198 155mm towed howitzers. The first of six test systems was delivered in June 2000. The US Marine Corps is expected to procure 413 systems with production scheduled to begin in 2002, and the US Army production of 273 systems will begin in 2003. The British Army is expected to order 65 systems and the Italian Army 70 systems.




However, Joe/Jane should be allowed to own one, if they wish to.

Why?


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Profile   Post #: 303
RE: Shooting in California - 12/8/2015 8:20:58 AM   
tj444


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Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

LMAO hypocrite

Oh, I don't know that I'd call tj a hypocrite...misguided maybe. Mistaken in the assumption that this was workplace viilence? Most assuredly.

me misguided??? if people on a terrorist watch list are prohibited from flying they should also be prohibited from owning and using firearms.. its just common sense..

You dont seem to understand what I was saying.. I think something happened at the party to tick off the male and triggered him to attack his co-workers that day.. I think its very conceivable that they had a different target & date originally planned (due to the bombs they made), some big event similar to what the marathon bombers did.. I think they were looking to kill/harm more people than they did..

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RE: Shooting in California - 12/8/2015 9:37:51 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

LMAO hypocrite

Oh, I don't know that I'd call tj a hypocrite...misguided maybe. Mistaken in the assumption that this was workplace viilence? Most assuredly.

me misguided??? if people on a terrorist watch list are prohibited from flying they should also be prohibited from owning and using firearms.. its just common sense..

You dont seem to understand what I was saying.. I think something happened at the party to tick off the male and triggered him to attack his co-workers that day.. I think its very conceivable that they had a different target & date originally planned (due to the bombs they made), some big event similar to what the marathon bombers did.. I think they were looking to kill/harm more people than they did..

And if that were true, tj...then why the message of support to ISIS on Facebook? I'm not saying that they didn't have another target in mind later but it seems strange that two radicalized Muslims would suddenly give up their lives for a minor provocation.

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Profile   Post #: 305
RE: Shooting in California - 12/8/2015 10:08:26 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

LMAO hypocrite

Oh, I don't know that I'd call tj a hypocrite...misguided maybe. Mistaken in the assumption that this was workplace viilence? Most assuredly.

me misguided??? if people on a terrorist watch list are prohibited from flying they should also be prohibited from owning and using firearms.. its just common sense..

You dont seem to understand what I was saying.. I think something happened at the party to tick off the male and triggered him to attack his co-workers that day.. I think its very conceivable that they had a different target & date originally planned (due to the bombs they made), some big event similar to what the marathon bombers did.. I think they were looking to kill/harm more people than they did..

And if that were true, tj...then why the message of support to ISIS on Facebook? I'm not saying that they didn't have another target in mind later but it seems strange that two radicalized Muslims would suddenly give up their lives for a minor provocation.

it seems (from what i have read) that the male had a temper (even tho he tried not to show it) and so imo they changed whatever plans they might have had to attack this party instead.. You might consider the provocation minor, I might consider the provocation minor.. He might not have considered the provocation minor at all and so the attack was his way of blowing up and showing them.. They are terrorists, there is no doubt about that, but I dont think attacking this party was the original plan..

What I dont understand is why they bothered having a baby..

I see these two as being religious nutz like that nutbar that attacked PP.. anyone that is deeply religious can be "radicalized".. Imo it takes a certain kinda crazy to be religious in the first place, and believe all that crap... I dont understand people that "find God".. when i find out someone is religious, I stay away from them..

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As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

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Profile   Post #: 306
RE: Shooting in California - 12/8/2015 10:51:16 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

LMAO hypocrite

Oh, I don't know that I'd call tj a hypocrite...misguided maybe. Mistaken in the assumption that this was workplace viilence? Most assuredly.

me misguided??? if people on a terrorist watch list are prohibited from flying they should also be prohibited from owning and using firearms.. its just common sense..

You dont seem to understand what I was saying.. I think something happened at the party to tick off the male and triggered him to attack his co-workers that day.. I think its very conceivable that they had a different target & date originally planned (due to the bombs they made), some big event similar to what the marathon bombers did.. I think they were looking to kill/harm more people than they did..

And if that were true, tj...then why the message of support to ISIS on Facebook? I'm not saying that they didn't have another target in mind later but it seems strange that two radicalized Muslims would suddenly give up their lives for a minor provocation.

it seems (from what i have read) that the male had a temper (even tho he tried not to show it) and so imo they changed whatever plans they might have had to attack this party instead.. You might consider the provocation minor, I might consider the provocation minor.. He might not have considered the provocation minor at all and so the attack was his way of blowing up and showing them.. They are terrorists, there is no doubt about that, but I dont think attacking this party was the original plan..

What I dont understand is why they bothered having a baby..

I see these two as being religious nutz like that nutbar that attacked PP.. anyone that is deeply religious can be "radicalized".. Imo it takes a certain kinda crazy to be religious in the first place, and believe all that crap... I dont understand people that "find God".. when i find out someone is religious, I stay away from them..

He did it in a fit of temper, but they took time to set booby traps for first responders?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tj444)
Profile   Post #: 307
RE: Shooting in California - 12/8/2015 11:50:20 AM   
zombiegurlsos


Posts: 434
Joined: 10/17/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

LMAO hypocrite

Oh, I don't know that I'd call tj a hypocrite...misguided maybe. Mistaken in the assumption that this was workplace viilence? Most assuredly.

me misguided??? if people on a terrorist watch list are prohibited from flying they should also be prohibited from owning and using firearms.. its just common sense..

You dont seem to understand what I was saying.. I think something happened at the party to tick off the male and triggered him to attack his co-workers that day.. I think its very conceivable that they had a different target & date originally planned (due to the bombs they made), some big event similar to what the marathon bombers did.. I think they were looking to kill/harm more people than they did..

And if that were true, tj...then why the message of support to ISIS on Facebook? I'm not saying that they didn't have another target in mind later but it seems strange that two radicalized Muslims would suddenly give up their lives for a minor provocation.

it seems (from what i have read) that the male had a temper (even tho he tried not to show it) and so imo they changed whatever plans they might have had to attack this party instead.. You might consider the provocation minor, I might consider the provocation minor.. He might not have considered the provocation minor at all and so the attack was his way of blowing up and showing them.. They are terrorists, there is no doubt about that, but I dont think attacking this party was the original plan..

What I dont understand is why they bothered having a baby..

I see these two as being religious nutz like that nutbar that attacked PP.. anyone that is deeply religious can be "radicalized".. Imo it takes a certain kinda crazy to be religious in the first place, and believe all that crap... I dont understand people that "find God".. when i find out someone is religious, I stay away from them..



They had a baby because the pro lifers made condoms hard to buy....

< Message edited by zombiegurlsos -- 12/8/2015 11:54:19 AM >

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RE: Shooting in California - 12/8/2015 12:06:14 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nighthawk3569

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

Do you feel joe/jane citizen should be allowed to own a 155mm pack howitzer? An f18 with missles and cannon? A nuclear weapon?


Try to keep up...there's no such thing as a 155mm 'pack' howitzer. However, Joe/Jane should be allowed to own one, if they wish to. On most city building lots, they's need to tear down their house to have room to park it, so they'd probably forgo the pleasure, in favor of a roof over their heads.

I, too, will just stick with my .45.

'hawk

I think he is refering to a WWII undersized howitzer that could be broken down and carried by mules in terrain to rough for vehicals.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to nighthawk3569)
Profile   Post #: 309
RE: Shooting in California - 12/8/2015 5:06:15 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		FR

I read somewhere that it was a false flag operation. That appears credible to me.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 310
RE: Shooting in California - 12/9/2015 2:19:09 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		I am sure it was because of lack of penises.

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RE: Shooting in California - 12/9/2015 2:28:15 PM   
lovmuffin


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Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I am sure it was because of lack of penises.


On him or her ?

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Profile   Post #: 312
RE: Shooting in California - 12/9/2015 2:29:47 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is their job... they are trained... you are not... you are a danger to others. You may get your butt shot running around a crime scene with a popgun playing wild west.

Butch

Actually I am trained and I am not a danger to others.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 313
RE: Shooting in California - 12/9/2015 2:35:33 PM   
Tkman117


Posts: 1353
Joined: 5/21/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is their job... they are trained... you are not... you are a danger to others. You may get your butt shot running around a crime scene with a popgun playing wild west.

Butch

Actually I am trained and I am not a danger to others.


Until the time comes that you aren't. Honestly the majority of people who end up shooting someone also claim to be "responsible gun owners" before said shooting occurs.

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Profile   Post #: 314
RE: Shooting in California - 12/9/2015 3:27:39 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is their job... they are trained... you are not... you are a danger to others. You may get your butt shot running around a crime scene with a popgun playing wild west.

Butch

Actually I am trained and I am not a danger to others.


Until the time comes that you aren't. Honestly the majority of people who end up shooting someone also claim to be "responsible gun owners" before said shooting occurs.
Really?

In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600.
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html

Accidental shooting deaths are most commonly associated with one or more children playing with a gun they found in the home. (Choi, et al, 1994) The person pulling the trigger is a friend, family member, or the victim. (Harruff, 1992)
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNSTAT.html

So, the rate of homicide by gun outranks both suicide by gun and accidental death by gun. By a very wide margin in the latter case.

So, in the case of homicide, do you really think the majority of the people who killed someone else deliberately were responsible gun owners right up to the point they murdered someone?

Or perhaps, it's the suicides? No...wait: these people killed themselves so that can't be it.

Perhaps you mean the accidental gun deaths? No, that can't be it because the majority of those deaths were caused by children who...by law...can't own a gun.

So...would you mind specifying what group you're referring to when you speak all those responsible gun owners?

(in reply to Tkman117)
Profile   Post #: 315
RE: Shooting in California - 12/9/2015 4:26:28 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

It is their job... they are trained... you are not... you are a danger to others. You may get your butt shot running around a crime scene with a popgun playing wild west.

Butch

Actually I am trained and I am not a danger to others.


Until the time comes that you aren't. Honestly the majority of people who end up shooting someone also claim to be "responsible gun owners" before said shooting occurs.

Again, Jack the Ripper was a law abiding citizen....until he wasn't.
I am sure this is a devestating comment when among people who agree with you. What it actually is is a mindless political slogan.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 316
RE: Shooting in California - 12/9/2015 5:40:01 PM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

I must admit, given the scenarios of a lot of the mass shootings I hear of, I'm a bit puzzled by how the dynamics will work given more than one 'good guy with a gun'. It may be a simple question, but bear in mind that I have no experience of such things in real life:

Say one or more bad guys begin to open fire. You, the good guy with the gun, don't see the event right from the start - you're just a couple of seconds too late. But the gunfire alerts you that something bad has happened. You go towards the sound, gun drawn. Once there, you see one or more people with guns aiming at one or more people with guns.

How do you know who are the bad guys? Wouldn't it at least sometimes be quite confusing?

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 12/9/2015 5:46:46 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 317
RE: Shooting in California - 12/9/2015 6:13:30 PM   
ifmaz


Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

I must admit, given the scenarios of a lot of the mass shootings I hear of, I'm a bit puzzled by how the dynamics will work given more than one 'good guy with a gun'. It may be a simple question, but bear in mind that I have no experience of such things in real life:

Say one or more bad guys begin to open fire. You, the good guy with the gun, don't see the event right from the start - you're just a couple of seconds too late. But the gunfire alerts you that something bad has happened. You go towards the sound, gun drawn. Once there, you see one or more people with guns aiming at one or more people with guns.

How do you know who are the bad guys? Wouldn't it at least sometimes be quite confusing?


Replace "good guy with a gun" with "local police officer", how does the situation differ?

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Profile   Post #: 318
RE: Shooting in California - 12/9/2015 6:15:13 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

FR

I must admit, given the scenarios of a lot of the mass shootings I hear of, I'm a bit puzzled by how the dynamics will work given more than one 'good guy with a gun'. It may be a simple question, but bear in mind that I have no experience of such things in real life:

Say one or more bad guys begin to open fire. You, the good guy with the gun, don't see the event right from the start - you're just a couple of seconds too late. But the gunfire alerts you that something bad has happened. You go towards the sound, gun drawn. Once there, you see one or more people with guns aiming at one or more people with guns.

How do you know who are the bad guys? Wouldn't it at least sometimes be quite confusing?

Don't know much about tactics do you? First if you are outside the confrontation your responsibility is 911.
Second the guys shooting at everyone will be the bad guys.
Thrid you remain hidden till you can tell who that is.
Fouth, while there have been numerous cases of the good guy with a gun stopping what would have otherwise been a mass killing there has never, I repeat never been an incident like what you discribe. The odds of mutiple ccw holders being present are very low no matter what you have been lead to believe.
Also the guys in tactical gear would be a real good bet.
I only know of one case where someone outside the shooting area tried to go in and he, properly, volunteered to help the unarmed security guard who told him to leave. In all other cases the ccw holder was in the firefight whether he wanted to be or not. His choice was fight back and have a chance or just curl up and be a victim.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 319
RE: Shooting in California - 12/9/2015 6:17:31 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:


Don't know much about tactics do you?


Actually, I know nothing about such tactics, as previously mentioned.

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Profile   Post #: 320
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