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RE: Shooting in California - 12/3/2015 7:46:28 PM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		Police said the pair carried two assault rifles, two handguns and more than 1,600 rounds of ammunition, and wore masks and tactical gear. They also left a set of three pipe bombs attached to a remote-controlled car at the scene of the shooting, though Burguan said Thursday that they were never detonated. He said all four guns were purchased legally.

https://twitter.com/sbcountysheriff/status/672594046313861120/photo/1

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RE: Shooting in California - 12/3/2015 7:46:29 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Yes me...bet your life on it... that and common sense

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 12/3/2015 7:47:14 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Shooting in California - 12/3/2015 7:49:04 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

The odds are a lot less with bird shot...a lot less than with a rifle or handgun... I can tell you that more than on CHILD has been killed...THIS YEAR alone in the hell hole of North ST. Louis with rounds that have penetrated walls and killed them in their homes... NOT ONE SHOTGUN DEATH WAS RECORDED.

Butch


And you have a source to cite for this conclusion, yes?


Home defense experts will agree that bird shot is less likely to penetrate a wall than slugs or buck, and less likely than most rifle or pistol rounds.
Of course that is of questionable advantage if they have any cover at all.
What would be concelment with a .45 (or buckshot) it cover for birdshot.
However if you can be sure they are standing in the open birdshot works quite well, if you are withing 10-15 feet.
Everything is a tradeoff.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 12/3/2015 7:50:15 PM >

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Shooting in California - 12/3/2015 8:05:54 PM   
ifmaz


Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes me...bet your life on it... that and common sense

Butch


I'm not quite that trusting, especially when one cannot cite a single source. I've found several sources that disagree with your conclusion and question the use of birdshot in a self-defense situation.

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Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Shooting in California - 12/3/2015 8:28:46 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes me...bet your life on it... that and common sense

Butch


I'm not quite that trusting, especially when one cannot cite a single source. I've found several sources that disagree with your conclusion and question the use of birdshot in a self-defense situation.


As I said there are tradeoffs. I prefer a shotgun inside the house, but I use 00. I wouldn't be shooting in the direction of my family so penetration wouldn't be a problem. It stands to reason that bird shot will have less penetration, but I can see that stopping power would be a problem, besides he says that a person would have to be an idiot to resist.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Shooting in California - 12/3/2015 8:37:14 PM   
ifmaz


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Joined: 7/22/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
As I said there are tradeoffs. I prefer a shotgun inside the house, but I use 00. I wouldn't be shooting in the direction of my family so penetration wouldn't be a problem. It stands to reason that bird shot will have less penetration, but I can see that stopping power would be a problem, besides he says that a person would have to be an idiot to resist.


I'm not trusting my life to ~5 rounds of birdshot against two meth heads.

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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Shooting in California - 12/3/2015 8:50:58 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ifmaz


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
As I said there are tradeoffs. I prefer a shotgun inside the house, but I use 00. I wouldn't be shooting in the direction of my family so penetration wouldn't be a problem. It stands to reason that bird shot will have less penetration, but I can see that stopping power would be a problem, besides he says that a person would have to be an idiot to resist.


I'm not trusting my life to ~5 rounds of birdshot against two meth heads.


Me either, two loads of 00 followed by 11 .45 acps.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Shooting in California - 12/3/2015 10:35:42 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And he should use what suits him.
How do you know he has the use of both hands?
Then he would have to use one of those evil pistols.



Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

I thought we hadn't spoken in a while?



Michael

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Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Shooting in California - 12/4/2015 12:55:59 AM   
Greta75


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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

It would seem that only occures in your peurile imagination



As I said, I know what I can flaunt and wear without getting arrested by real experiences from living here all my life and not by theory like you love to use as your evidence.
You can interprete that how-ever you want, but we Singaporeans know the limits are simply not flashing boobs or private parts and are comfortable dressing like that in public spaces if we wanted to with zero worries at all. And besides you are completely out of point since I talk about women not getting molested IF they even walked naked. And you are insisting dressing skimpily is illegal. So if a police arrest a naked woman, that's not molesting or raping her BTW! Infact I guarantee they will send female police because the male police are afraid of being accused of molest.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 12/4/2015 12:59:23 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Shooting in California - 12/4/2015 3:41:59 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Greta75

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

It would seem that only occures in your peurile imagination



As I said, I know what I can flaunt and wear without getting arrested by real experiences from living here all my life and not by theory like you love to use as your evidence.


The evidence shows that you have never been to singapore let alone live there.


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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Shooting in California - 12/4/2015 7:31:17 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And he should use what suits him.
How do you know he has the use of both hands?
Then he would have to use one of those evil pistols.



Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

I thought we hadn't spoken in a while?



Michael

We haven't.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Shooting in California - 12/4/2015 7:52:22 AM   
Aylee


Posts: 24103
Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Police said the pair carried two assault rifles, two handguns and more than 1,600 rounds of ammunition, and wore masks and tactical gear. They also left a set of three pipe bombs attached to a remote-controlled car at the scene of the shooting, though Burguan said Thursday that they were never detonated. He said all four guns were purchased legally.

https://twitter.com/sbcountysheriff/status/672594046313861120/photo/1


ATF says that the guns were illegal in California.

The shooters used weapons they did not purchase (sounds like a straw purchase or illegal transfer).
The shooters modified guns to accept high-capacity magazines.
The shooters modified guns for automatic fire.

But what does the ATF know? The narrative says that the guns were perfectly legal and that is why we need to change the laws.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/rifles-used-in-san-bernardino-shooting-illegal-under-state-law-1449201057?mod=e2fb

While they were originally sold legally, with magazine locking devices commonly known as bullet buttons, the rifles were subsequently altered in different ways to make them more powerful, according to Meredith Davis, a special agent with the ATF.
The Smith & Wesson rifle was changed in an attempt to enable it fire in fully automatic mode, while the DPMS weapon was modified to use a large-capacity magazine, she said.

Those alterations made the weapons unlawful under California’s ban on assault weapons, which bans guns with magazines that can detach for quick reloading.

The state legally allows the sale and ownership of assault weapons that have fixed magazines.

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Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Shooting in California - 12/4/2015 7:59:37 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Police said the pair carried two assault rifles, two handguns and more than 1,600 rounds of ammunition, and wore masks and tactical gear. They also left a set of three pipe bombs attached to a remote-controlled car at the scene of the shooting, though Burguan said Thursday that they were never detonated. He said all four guns were purchased legally.

https://twitter.com/sbcountysheriff/status/672594046313861120/photo/1


A rifle, a handgun, and 800 rounds of amunition, how did they move?


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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Shooting in California - 12/4/2015 8:22:08 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		The BBC World News is reporting the discovery of a video recorded by the female allegedly swearing allegiance to IS. It seems that more and more evidence is pointing towards this incident having some terrorist motivation. At this stage, the police and FBI are still not making this attribution publicly.



< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 12/4/2015 8:39:31 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Shooting in California - 12/4/2015 8:26:16 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		27 rounds of AK weighs a pound. Dont know what cal these were, havent been keeping up, but 800 rounds would weigh 30 pounds, so not at all undoable. I take shits bigger than that.

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Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Shooting in California - 12/4/2015 8:29:19 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

The BBC World News is reporting the discovery of a video recorded by the female allegedly swearing allegiance to IS. It seems that more and more evidence is pointing towards this incident having some terrorist motivation. At this stage, the police and FBI are still not making this attribution publicly.

It took 3-4 years before they would admit that Fort Hood was terrorism.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to tweakabelle)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Shooting in California - 12/4/2015 8:32:58 AM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Police said the pair carried two assault rifles, two handguns and more than 1,600 rounds of ammunition, and wore masks and tactical gear. They also left a set of three pipe bombs attached to a remote-controlled car at the scene of the shooting, though Burguan said Thursday that they were never detonated. He said all four guns were purchased legally.

https://twitter.com/sbcountysheriff/status/672594046313861120/photo/1


ATF says that the guns were illegal in California.

The shooters used weapons they did not purchase (sounds like a straw purchase or illegal transfer).
The shooters modified guns to accept high-capacity magazines.
The shooters modified guns for automatic fire.

But what does the ATF know? The narrative says that the guns were perfectly legal and that is why we need to change the laws.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/rifles-used-in-san-bernardino-shooting-illegal-under-state-law-1449201057?mod=e2fb

While they were originally sold legally, with magazine locking devices commonly known as bullet buttons, the rifles were subsequently altered in different ways to make them more powerful, according to Meredith Davis, a special agent with the ATF.
The Smith & Wesson rifle was changed in an attempt to enable it fire in fully automatic mode, while the DPMS weapon was modified to use a large-capacity magazine, she said.

Those alterations made the weapons unlawful under California’s ban on assault weapons, which bans guns with magazines that can detach for quick reloading.

The state legally allows the sale and ownership of assault weapons that have fixed magazines.

Actually...they didn't even bother to purchase the "assault-style" weapons they used. They got them from a "friend" (hmm...suppose he was one of the ME men rumored to have been hanging around the couple's apartment the last several weeks?) and then illegally modified them (I'm sure they did all that on their own, too).

So...this young couple did all this, nullifying California's strict control laws, but still...we must crack down harder on the law-abiders.

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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Shooting in California - 12/4/2015 8:40:57 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		It must be comforting to gun lovers to learn that the law is being applied equally to all, and that it's just as easy for would-be terrorists to arm themselves to the teeth as it is for any one else in the USA. Just in case there is any doubt about this, the GOP has announced its opposition to a bill banning weapons to people on the 'no-fly list'. Source

I must admit I find it confusing that the US is prepared to sell guns to people it won't allow on planes because of their known or suspected links to terrorism. But apparently this is a big blow for freedom as it is understood in certain circles in the USA.

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Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Shooting in California - 12/4/2015 8:47:29 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: BamaD

It took 3-4 years before they would admit that Fort Hood was terrorism.


How many years did it take to discover that the gulf of tonkin incident never happened...only @60,000 body bags full of dead americans?????

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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Shooting in California - 12/4/2015 8:48:39 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

Police said the pair carried two assault rifles, two handguns and more than 1,600 rounds of ammunition, and wore masks and tactical gear. They also left a set of three pipe bombs attached to a remote-controlled car at the scene of the shooting, though Burguan said Thursday that they were never detonated. He said all four guns were purchased legally.

https://twitter.com/sbcountysheriff/status/672594046313861120/photo/1


ATF says that the guns were illegal in California.

The shooters used weapons they did not purchase (sounds like a straw purchase or illegal transfer).
The shooters modified guns to accept high-capacity magazines.
The shooters modified guns for automatic fire.

But what does the ATF know? The narrative says that the guns were perfectly legal and that is why we need to change the laws.


http://www.wsj.com/articles/rifles-used-in-san-bernardino-shooting-illegal-under-state-law-1449201057?mod=e2fb

While they were originally sold legally, with magazine locking devices commonly known as bullet buttons, the rifles were subsequently altered in different ways to make them more powerful, according to Meredith Davis, a special agent with the ATF.
The Smith & Wesson rifle was changed in an attempt to enable it fire in fully automatic mode, while the DPMS weapon was modified to use a large-capacity magazine, she said.

Those alterations made the weapons unlawful under California’s ban on assault weapons, which bans guns with magazines that can detach for quick reloading.

The state legally allows the sale and ownership of assault weapons that have fixed magazines.

I dunno, what does the ATF know????
so they broke the law by changing them, even tho they purchased them legally from somewhere, colour me surprised. Lots of people modify their guns apparently.

Thank you for the extra information

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<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

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Profile   Post #: 160
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