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RE: Using lists - 12/9/2015 2:45:03 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

As for the shotgun... that had nothing to do with taking guns away... just what weapon would be safer and more effective in home defense.


Butch


It's only ideal for some in certain situations if that is their preference. The shotgun is bulkier,most likely less convenient and slower to get into battery than a handgun if needed in an emergency. The most optimal 12 gauge has a recoil that is too much for the majority of women, especially those women and even men who have limited experience with firearms.


< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 12/9/2015 2:54:57 PM >

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Using lists - 12/9/2015 2:53:25 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

As for the shotgun...........

Butch


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIdKIM2btoA

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Using lists - 12/9/2015 6:17:11 PM   
ifmaz


Posts: 844
Joined: 7/22/2015
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Oh....I have always been against AR-15's and i would gladly knock on your door and collect them. As for the shotgun... that had nothing to do with taking guns away... just what weapon would be safer and more effective in home defense.


If you're coming to my door to illegally take my legally obtained property and violate my rights you're going to very quickly discover the difference between a shotgun and an AR15, fascist.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Using lists - 12/9/2015 6:43:31 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Oh....I have always been against AR-15's and i would gladly knock on your door and collect them. As for the shotgun... that had nothing to do with taking guns away... just what weapon would be safer and more effective in home defense.

The take your toys away comment remember was trying to get you to understand if you and others like you continue to try and block good gun control legislation you could very well loose your toys.

Butch

You don't understand that when they start taking your shotguns will go too.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Using lists - 12/9/2015 7:15:39 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

Butch this is what you said

Johnny have you ever considered that humanity is nuts... has been nuts and may very well always be nuts? Now perhaps taking toys away for the killers may save lives even if it will not make us all sane.

It had nothing to do to how you will punish us for disagreeing with you. After all that is what the threat of if you don't give us this we will take them all really comes down to.



Bama this is taking away guns the killers are using... i told you how it could be done... you just don't like my ideas... this is not taking all guns... although like I said I'd do it if i could.

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Using lists - 12/9/2015 7:25:55 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Oh....I have always been against AR-15's and i would gladly knock on your door and collect them. As for the shotgun... that had nothing to do with taking guns away... just what weapon would be safer and more effective in home defense.

The take your toys away comment remember was trying to get you to understand if you and others like you continue to try and block good gun control legislation you could very well loose your toys.

Butch

You don't understand that when they start taking your shotguns will go too.



Here is how it will eventually go Bama... in my opinion anyway... All assault type weapons and all weapons with large magazines will become illegal. Ownership of all weapons public and private will require an extensive background check along with a waiting period and mental evaluation.

The above I believe will happen unless gun owners come forward with sensible gun control laws that at least reduce gun violence.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Using lists - 12/9/2015 7:41:51 PM   
Wayward5oul


Posts: 3314
Joined: 11/9/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic
We dont need another sanity on board.

Hush your mouth before he hears his name being invoked and returns!

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Using lists - 12/9/2015 7:44:55 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Oh....I have always been against AR-15's and i would gladly knock on your door and collect them. As for the shotgun... that had nothing to do with taking guns away... just what weapon would be safer and more effective in home defense.

The take your toys away comment remember was trying to get you to understand if you and others like you continue to try and block good gun control legislation you could very well loose your toys.

Butch

You don't understand that when they start taking your shotguns will go too.



Here is how it will eventually go Bama... in my opinion anyway... All assault type weapons and all weapons with large magazines will become illegal. Ownership of all weapons public and private will require an extensive background check along with a waiting period and mental evaluation.

The above I believe will happen unless gun owners come forward with sensible gun control laws that at least reduce gun violence.

Butch

We do. But since we don't favor laws that go after legitimate owners you pretend we don't want to do anything. You are still using the Jr High bully who says give me your lunch money today or I will beat you up and take your money every day.
Assault weapons have been pretty much outlawed since 1932. What you call assault weapons are just weapons that look like assault weapons. Gun grabbers have been making this theat since the 70's. You do know that the more things happen like CA the more people OPPOSSE your kind of draconian gun control measures.. The way I see it this will go to sticking it to criminals and leaving honest people alone. BTW who pay for that mental eval???? And what makes you think that anyone would pass it? Even if the shrinks do not have an antigun bias they will be more afraid of making a mistake of letting the wrong person have one than of keeping 1000 people who should be allowed one from getting them. Your sources have forgotten that waiting periods have no positive affect. On the other hand I know of a woman in Jersey who was killed during her waiting period, she wanted to be able to protect herself against an abusive ex she thought would kill her (she was right). I know of another person who was called one day to inform her that her ex who had threated to kill her if he ever got out had been paroled as of that morning. Then she found out that there was a two week waiting period. People don't go out to buy a gun to commit a crime with the next day. Even if they did if they wanted to kill someone they would just wait and do it when the period was over. Fortunately she, like her ex, bought a black market gun so when he tried to kill her she was able to shoot him instead. Even better the judge said that since she faced extreme circumstances the law didn't count in her case. When people want a gun now it is because they have reason to beleive they have a threat now. Those are the people you want to stop.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Using lists - 12/9/2015 7:46:10 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Oh....I have always been against AR-15's and i would gladly knock on your door and collect them. As for the shotgun... that had nothing to do with taking guns away... just what weapon would be safer and more effective in home defense.

The take your toys away comment remember was trying to get you to understand if you and others like you continue to try and block good gun control legislation you could very well loose your toys.

Butch

You don't understand that when they start taking your shotguns will go too.



Here is how it will eventually go Bama... in my opinion anyway... All assault type weapons and all weapons with large magazines will become illegal. Ownership of all weapons public and private will require an extensive background check along with a waiting period and mental evaluation.

The above I believe will happen unless gun owners come forward with sensible gun control laws that at least reduce gun violence.

Butch

You haven't come up with a sensible law to agree to. I have but you ignore them.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Using lists - 12/9/2015 7:48:34 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Bama we know each others position and the reasoning behind them... for me at least this thread has turned as many in the past and it is not worth discussing the issue with you. So off to another.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Using lists - 12/9/2015 8:23:35 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama we know each others position and the reasoning behind them... for me at least this thread has turned as many in the past and it is not worth discussing the issue with you. So off to another.

Butch

That is fine. I would like for you to condider one question. Gun grabbers always fall back on give us what we want or we will take all of your gun rights away. If we can stop what you want to do what in the world makes you think you can push through something that the vast majority, not just gun owners, find oppressive, disgusting, and unconstitutional. I don't expect an answer, just think about it and you will see why your theats fall on deaf ears.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Using lists - 12/9/2015 8:55:03 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Oh....I have always been against AR-15's and i would gladly knock on your door and collect them. As for the shotgun... that had nothing to do with taking guns away... just what weapon would be safer and more effective in home defense.

The take your toys away comment remember was trying to get you to understand if you and others like you continue to try and block good gun control legislation you could very well loose your toys.

Butch

You don't understand that when they start taking your shotguns will go too.



Here is how it will eventually go Bama... in my opinion anyway... All assault type weapons and all weapons with large magazines will become illegal. Ownership of all weapons public and private will require an extensive background check along with a waiting period and mental evaluation.

The above I believe will happen unless gun owners come forward with sensible gun control laws that at least reduce gun violence.

Butch


That's the same thing the Birdbrain keeps peddling. And what is a publicly owned weapon ?


_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Using lists - 12/10/2015 6:46:25 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Actually, this thread was to deal with the idea of using DoJ and DHS lists as a basis for preventing gun ownership.

The real problem is the existence of the lists themselves.

There does not have to be any actual concrete, 100% irrefutable proof or evidence of any activity that one supports terrorism or terrorist groups, just the suspicion, which could come from some jack ass with a grudge against some one.

There is no investigation of an individual prior to being added to the list, just the fact that the person's name came up in the course of an investigation, which could be as innocent as selling a used car, or speaking out against the tactics used to deal with terrorists in the first place.

There in lies the rub.

A person's rights, in this case, the freedom to travel, are curtailed with no reason based in concrete fact. It is understandable that a person living abroad with known terrorist ties be denied entry into the US, but we are talking US citizens at this point. Not foreign nationals.

And, as proved in court cases, getting your name off one of these lists is damn near impossible, even if it was added by mistake.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Using lists - 12/10/2015 9:02:22 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Sure you would....lol

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to ifmaz)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Using lists - 12/10/2015 9:08:23 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR

Butch this is what you said

Johnny have you ever considered that humanity is nuts... has been nuts and may very well always be nuts? Now perhaps taking toys away for the killers may save lives even if it will not make us all sane.

It had nothing to do to how you will punish us for disagreeing with you. After all that is what the threat of if you don't give us this we will take them all really comes down to.



Bama this is taking away guns the killers are using... i told you how it could be done... you just don't like my ideas... this is not taking all guns... although like I said I'd do it if i could.

You pretended to be outraged that I accused you of wanting to take away all guns and now you flat out say it. Weasel out of this one.
Sure you told us how you would like this to be done, and I have told you how what you want tramples on the ights of millions of people.

BTW check the facts, about 1% of crime is committed with long guns, and only a small part of this with guns that look like assault rifles. I know you are well intention but the people you believe are liars.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 12/10/2015 9:11:35 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Using lists - 12/10/2015 9:12:44 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I have stated my position on guns over and over... play your fake outrage to someone else.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Using lists - 12/10/2015 9:15:03 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Actually, this thread was to deal with the idea of using DoJ and DHS lists as a basis for preventing gun ownership.

The real problem is the existence of the lists themselves.

There does not have to be any actual concrete, 100% irrefutable proof or evidence of any activity that one supports terrorism or terrorist groups, just the suspicion, which could come from some jack ass with a grudge against some one.

There is no investigation of an individual prior to being added to the list, just the fact that the person's name came up in the course of an investigation, which could be as innocent as selling a used car, or speaking out against the tactics used to deal with terrorists in the first place.

There in lies the rub.

A person's rights, in this case, the freedom to travel, are curtailed with no reason based in concrete fact. It is understandable that a person living abroad with known terrorist ties be denied entry into the US, but we are talking US citizens at this point. Not foreign nationals.

And, as proved in court cases, getting your name off one of these lists is damn near impossible, even if it was added by mistake.

Agreed you cannot legitimately use something based on maybe as if it were a fact.
I believe that the Soviet Union had a basic position that if you were accused you were guilty.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Using lists - 12/10/2015 9:30:09 AM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline 		Take gun ownership out of the equation for Christ's sake!!!!

The issue may have been using the No Fly List as a deterrent to gun ownership.

After thinking about the list, and reading about the fuck ups involving the list, the existence of the list is the issue.

The existence of any list that puts a citizen under increased surveillance OR curtails their rights as citizens with no previous criminal conviction is the real issue!

Read your fucking history people, Stalin kept such lists, then in the states, McCarthy created such lists.

You people should be pissed as hell that the government is creating any kind of list that places limits on any individual's rights for whatever reason with no proof of illegal activity!

This violates quite a few of the protections the constitution is there to ensure are not violated in the first place.

First, you can be added to this list for the public condemnation of tactics used against terrorists! We have the right to criticize our government and its actions.

Second, if you are on this list, with or without proof of illegal activities, your phones, email, etc can be monitored, under a blanket court order.

We have the right to travel, unless restricted by law as in the case of those who are under supervision for parole or probation. The concept behind the "no fly" list is to prevent some one from hijacking an airplane and crashing it into something, and in the case of American citizens, it prevents them from even getting on a commuter plane for a hop from Dallas to Oklahoma city.

Someone with a name similar to the someone on the list could be prevented from flying for medical treatment.

Is that acceptable?



_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Using lists - 12/10/2015 9:35:47 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		McCarthy's lists were about as nutsuckerish as they come. Nobody has actually seen one, and none of them were real.

They were making 'tend even in those days, the nutsuckers.


And when we asked to see it, those lists unraveled quickly. We are all the better for that, I think.


< Message edited by mnottertail -- 12/10/2015 9:39:44 AM >

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Using lists - 12/10/2015 9:51:11 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I have stated my position on guns over and over... play your fake outrage to someone else.

Butch

I am not outraged, I just caught you being a hypocrite, another reason your proposals fall on deaf ears, what you really want is a total firearms ban which brings us back to why do you still own even shotguns.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 100
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