Cry me a River (Full Version)

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Greta75 -> Cry me a River (12/14/2015 8:56:28 PM)

quote:

Kafumba Kromah, of Minneapolis, said his 8-year-old daughter asked him: "Why we are Muslims? Why can't we be what everybody else is?"

Very good question to ask your papa Little girl, ask your papa, why can't you choose the religion you wish you be in, why didn't he give you a choice and insist you are Muslim from birth? You have the choice not to be one if you wanted to! So you don't have to be one! Why is your father so afraid to tell you, you have the choice to choose if you want to?

quote:

As Khan, the father in Maryland, tucked his son in last week, he left him with the words he recited when he became a U.S. citizen two decades ago: "One nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

"I don't know why, I don't know how people forget that," Khan said later, fighting back tears. "We have to; otherwise we're dividing ourselves."

I would say to this dude, there will be liberty and justice to all. Bullying is not exclusive to Muslim kids. Bullying happens, if you are overweight, if you are too skinny, if you are a runt, if you are seen as physically repulsive, if you have a disability, if you seem different in anyway from everybody else, goth kids get bullied too, emo kids get bullied, many mix racial kids have been bullied, bullying happens equally all across the board to all sort of demographics. It's not exclusive to Muslims.

But when the bully cross the line and cause physical injury to you, there will be liberty and justice where the bully will be prosecuted.

quote:

"We're not prepared for this," said Madi, whose father fled Iraq in the 1970s. "We're not prepared to sit and educate our children why they're not any different from anybody else. I don't think any parent is prepared for that. I don't care what religion you believe or don't believe."

But they are different from everybody else. They don't have the choice to choose to be Muslim or not. Most people in this world can't choose race, but can choose Religion. Muslims seem to be the only religion in the world, which they can't even choose or even are taught they have the choice to be anything else but Muslims. Could that be the reason why you say parents are not prepared to educate children why they are not different? Perhaps because you are different! You have victimised your own kid, you have ran away from Muslim countries to live in a country where you can have more freedom, but you deny that freedom to your own child. Otherwise, there should be absolutely ZERO problems educating kids exactly how they are not different, if they are genuinely not different and live with the same freedom as everybody else.

As a buddhist kid in a Methodist school with majority christians, I was ostracized alot too, also why I mentioned my childhood best girlfriend was a muslim, because we were both not Christians, and also told by teachers our whole family is going to hell for not believing in Jesus. But my parents always made it clear, I can be whatever religion I want, it doesn't matter, they were bad in their own way, but being buddhist (mom)and an atheist (dad), they never controlled religion. So I switch to Christianity to fit in, even follow some of my school mates to church, and everything went okay, but I was always clear I was only into it to fit in and get through school without constant grief. But it helped me fit in. My Muslim friend was not allowed to claim she is anything else but Muslim though. I find it strange her fundie muslim parents puts her in a christian school, that always puzzled me, there are many muslim schools around. My mom put me in this school because she knows I will get beaten up in there, and that's why she did. It was intentional, she told me so.

I saw this Oprah episode where you have this blue eye, blonde girl, 8 yr old, who looked perfectly white, being ostracised in school, because her parents INSIST she tells everyone she is half black. I also need to mention, both her parents are white, as she is adopted, so the kids in school will never know, if she doesn't say anything. The blacks shun her, the whites shun her, she fit in no where and was ostracised. How silly. I don't agree with this, if she doesn't say anything and just claim she's white, nobody will notice she's half black. When you become an adult, there are also politics in working world and prejudices you gotta maneuver around it. It's life. And it's how you deal with it and roll with it, that will make impossible circumstances become possible.

And no matter what, with a kid, I think it is 100% wrong to stick a religion upon them when they are young. They should be told, they can choose. If they can choose, they can make whatever decision they want. They can choose to stay Muslim to battle the prejudice, and stay Muslim and proud, that is good too, might built strong character, might find true friends who accept them for what they are, those that stand by their side. Or they can choose to just go with everybody else. Just to fit in, like I did. I choose my battles, and over all, religions mean nothing to me, so it doesn't bother me. And as a kid, singing hymms and listening to bible stories, were actually like fun activities to participate in for me so it wasn't so bad to just join them and do all that stuffs.

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/schools-streets-tv-children-feel-muslim-backlash-160724097.html








Real0ne -> RE: Cry me a River (12/14/2015 9:00:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Very good question to ask your Mama Little girl, ask your Mama, why can't you choose the religion you wish you be in, why didn't she give you a choice and insist you are Muslim from birth? You have the choice not to be one if you wanted to! So you don't have to be one! Why is your mom so afraid to tell you, you have the choice to choose if you want to?





Because the gubblemint has really big guns and they say you will join their religion or they will bankrupt you with fines and penalties.


In america land of m.o.b. its not justice, it just-us. Liberty and 'just-us' for all.



DesideriScuri -> RE: Cry me a River (12/15/2015 5:51:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75
quote:

Kafumba Kromah, of Minneapolis, said his 8-year-old daughter asked him: "Why we are Muslims? Why can't we be what everybody else is?"

Very good question to ask your papa Little girl, ask your papa, why can't you choose the religion you wish you be in, why didn't he give you a choice and insist you are Muslim from birth? You have the choice not to be one if you wanted to! So you don't have to be one! Why is your father so afraid to tell you, you have the choice to choose if you want to?


She's 8, Greta. Do you really think she has the capacity to understand why her father believes in Islam, or why others believe in their theology? He believes in Islam, and is raising her in the way he believes is right. Isn't that what any parent should do?

quote:

quote:

"We're not prepared for this," said Madi, whose father fled Iraq in the 1970s. "We're not prepared to sit and educate our children why they're not any different from anybody else. I don't think any parent is prepared for that. I don't care what religion you believe or don't believe."

But they are different from everybody else. They don't have the choice to choose to be Muslim or not. Most people in this world can't choose race, but can choose Religion. Muslims seem to be the only religion in the world, which they can't even choose or even are taught they have the choice to be anything else but Muslims. Could that be the reason why you say parents are not prepared to educate children why they are not different? Perhaps because you are different! You have victimised your own kid, you have ran away from Muslim countries to live in a country where you can have more freedom, but you deny that freedom to your own child. Otherwise, there should be absolutely ZERO problems educating kids exactly how they are not different, if they are genuinely not different and live with the same freedom as everybody else.
As a buddhist kid in a Methodist school with majority christians, I was ostracized alot too, also why I mentioned my childhood best girlfriend was a muslim, because we were both not Christians, and also told by teachers our whole family is going to hell for not believing in Jesus. But my parents always made it clear, I can be whatever religion I want, it doesn't matter, they were bad in their own way, but being buddhist (mom)and an atheist (dad), they never controlled religion. So I switch to Christianity to fit in, even follow some of my school mates to church, and everything went okay, but I was always clear I was only into it to fit in and get through school without constant grief. But it helped me fit in. My Muslim friend was not allowed to claim she is anything else but Muslim though. I find it strange her fundie muslim parents puts her in a christian school, that always puzzled me, there are many muslim schools around. My mom put me in this school because she knows I will get beaten up in there, and that's why she did. It was intentional, she told me so.
I saw this Oprah episode where you have this blue eye, blonde girl, 8 yr old, who looked perfectly white, being ostracised in school, because her parents INSIST she tells everyone she is half black. I also need to mention, both her parents are white, as she is adopted, so the kids in school will never know, if she doesn't say anything. The blacks shun her, the whites shun her, she fit in no where and was ostracised. How silly. I don't agree with this, if she doesn't say anything and just claim she's white, nobody will notice she's half black. When you become an adult, there are also politics in working world and prejudices you gotta maneuver around it. It's life. And it's how you deal with it and roll with it, that will make impossible circumstances become possible.
And no matter what, with a kid, I think it is 100% wrong to stick a religion upon them when they are young. They should be told, they can choose. If they can choose, they can make whatever decision they want. They can choose to stay Muslim to battle the prejudice, and stay Muslim and proud, that is good too, might built strong character, might find true friends who accept them for what they are, those that stand by their side. Or they can choose to just go with everybody else. Just to fit in, like I did. I choose my battles, and over all, religions mean nothing to me, so it doesn't bother me. And as a kid, singing hymms and listening to bible stories, were actually like fun activities to participate in for me so it wasn't so bad to just join them and do all that stuffs.
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/schools-streets-tv-children-feel-muslim-backlash-160724097.html


I disagree. I think it's a good thing for a parent to teach their kid(s) what's wrong and what's right, as they truly believe. IMO, violence should not be a vehicle in that, but that's my take. Once a child has grown into an adult and has the ability to think and understand, and form his/her own beliefs, at that point, it should be them that decides what faith they are going to follow.

Christian parents aren't going to raise their kids according to Islamic or Jewish faith. They simply don't believe that would be right. How would a Christian parent raise a Buddhist/Hindu/Muslim/etc. child?



Aylee -> RE: Cry me a River (12/15/2015 9:02:46 AM)

I can't believe the guy didn't have an answer for the eight year old. Seems like a fairly normal "kid question" to me.



thompsonx -> RE: Cry me a River (12/16/2015 8:24:24 AM)

Very good question to ask your papa Little girl, ask your papa, why can't you choose the religion you wish you be in, why didn't he give you a choice and insist you are Muslim from birth? You have the choice not to be one if you wanted to! So you don't have to be one! Why is your father so afraid to tell you, you have the choice to choose if you want to?

Are you really that stupid? Should she be allowed to make a choice to drink drain cleaner? Should she be allowed to take a gun and shoot anyone she chooses?



Termyn8or -> RE: Cry me a River (12/16/2015 12:46:38 PM)

You have outdone yourself thompson. It has been a long time since I saw as stupid a statement as that while calling someone else stupid.

I bet you don't go to bars, you would get the shit beat out of you, or in modern times, shot out in the parking lot. Fucking pussies don't fight anymore these days...

But in my travels, I have found that the more intelligent a person is, the less he calls other people stupid or moron or derogatory terms relating to their intelligence. Stupid people call other people stupid. Smart people try to reason with stupid people and educated them. Guess into which classification you fit.

T^T



Termyn8or -> RE: Cry me a River (12/16/2015 1:36:49 PM)

"Very good question to ask your papa Little girl, ask your papa, why can't you choose the religion you wish you be in, why didn't he give you a choice and insist you are Muslim from birth?"

Almost all religions disrespect others, and especially apostates. Christians, IIRC when they ruled France they made Jews convert under oath, and the Kol Nidre prayer resulted. If you were Shinto and refused to die for the Emperor. What the Catholics did to those who started the Protestant religion.

I do agree however, that it should be illegal to teach children religion. There is one problem with that though and that is the Constitution. While it does not spell it out explicitly, that they cannot prevent the practice of a religion because of the first amendment, I am almost sure the courts would decide that this extends to preaching in your own home to your own kids. Therefore such a ban simply cannot be done.

Of course they can do it in other countries. People here are brainwashed to think that Muslims feel the need to take over and convert the whole world. that is not what I heard and I got better sources than most. They want THEIR lands, the ones they control, to be free of non-Muslim influences.

This limitation on their "evangelism" is evidenced by the fact that about 30,000 Jews live in peace in Iran. I guess as long as they do not go out and try to convert the kids to Judaism they are just fine. Just like the overstatements about Russia's homophobia. It IS NOT ILLEGAL, it is only illegal to promote homosexuality to minors. I agree. I am not saying not to accept it if they have the proclivity for it, but that is more up to the people. And the people there are a bit homophobic. Also from what I read, there is a good reason for this having something to do with the military and alot of rapes in the past, like in the Soviet days.

The problem is people are so ingrained with a religion when the indoctrination starts as soon as they can talk. No other ideology will replace it without psychological trauma. Like when a religious person sees to much "humanity" and says "How can god allow this ?". In some cases the person rejects religion and goes out to avenge a loved ones death or something. In other cases they might drink too much or go on hard drugs.

Religion overall though, defers a persons responsibility. They credit their god for success, and then when they fail, guess whose fault it is. And when they go on a holy war, which is EXACTLY what Jihad is, then their morality is no longer an issue because they are the hand of god, or allah.

And it is not like they do not have good reason. Since WW2 the west has stuck it up their ass and broke it of so many times it just ain't right. And USians do not hear about most of it. they do not know that Saddam was "our boy in Baghdad". They do not know the Shah was a brutal torturing dictator and was wanted fro real war crimes during that "hostage crisis", and they do not know that he hostages were treated pretty well, not killed and actually one had a medical condition they were not prepared to deal with and let him go home.

They also do not know about what the US did down in South America. That is why we got HFCS and aspartame in our drinks, because they charge US customers more for sugar cane. Mexican Coke has real sugar in it. TheUS installed a few dictators down there, and they tried it with Chavez but that didn't work because the People rose up and busted him out of where they were holding him, got rid of the US puppet (I hope they fucking killed him but I do not know) and reinstalled their lawfully elected President. NOT DICTATOR. And about shutting down TV stations, he ordered that the TV stations that ran cartoons instead of news while the US led coup was happening not to be able to renew their licenses because they were not operating in the public interest. The US FCC has MUCH more stringent rules about that, but not about other things.

One reason USians are so ill informed is because the media has the right to lie with impunity. Fuck snooze (Fox News) won that right in the courts here.

And I think to myself, what a wonderful world. (Louie Armstrong I think)


T^T



thompsonx -> RE: Cry me a River (12/19/2015 5:10:15 PM)

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

You have outdone yourself thompson. It has been a long time since I saw as stupid a statement as that while calling someone else stupid.

That would be your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion.

I bet you don't go to bars,

Why on earth would I go to a bar and pay inflated prices for hooch I can buy in the store?

you would get the shit beat out of you,

Are you going to flex for us now?[8|]



But in my travels,

Does your mom let you cross the street by yourself now? Don't forget to look both ways

people try to reason with stupid people and educated them.

I can fix ignorant. No one can fix stupid.





Termyn8or -> RE: Cry me a River (12/20/2015 12:48:13 PM)

If you are so much fucking smarter than the rest of us, why don't you educate us ?

FUCK YOU.

T^T^T



thompsonx -> RE: Cry me a River (12/20/2015 2:30:01 PM)


ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

If you are so much fucking smarter than the rest of us, why don't you educate us ?

I make every effort to disabuse you of your ignorance. All you need to do is pay attention.


FUCK YOU.

Your mom says that a lot...but you know how she is when she has been drinking.




Termyn8or -> RE: Cry me a River (12/20/2015 4:57:29 PM)

My Mom says what ? You met her ?

T^T



Termyn8or -> RE: Cry me a River (12/20/2015 5:12:00 PM)

thompsonx, you are an ignorant, abusive piece of shit. If you met my "Mom" she would be borrowing my gun to kill you with. you add nothing to the conversations you invade with your childish insults and should be banned from adult conversations.

You are another one of those pieces of shit that does not even qualify as a human being. You have never typed an intelligent comment here as far as I can tell and I happen to know that people who communicate the way you do are mentally inferior. You do not respond at all to those opinions which which you disagree, but simply denigrate or insult the person who wrote it. In fact you fail even doing that bitch, because to insult someone they have to respect your opinion. Did your retarded fucking ass even know that bitch ?

You couldn't argue your way out of a Mayor's court if you were the Mayor. you are obviously a product of the worst of US schools and a social situation that absolutely prevented you from reaching adulthood intellectually or emotionally.

You want to talk about my Mother motherfucker, well I think yours used a fucking dildo up your ass three times a day until you were 15 years old, and that was last year. And then after up your ass she shoved it down your throat, which is where you got your communicating skills.

____________________________

Now moderators, you do what the fuck you want, but look at this asshole's postings first. He is a disruptive asshole, but do not ban him. I got LOTS of vitriol for him and deserves every fucking ounce of it.

T^T



MercTech -> RE: Cry me a River (12/20/2015 5:54:03 PM)

Reminds me of the Anabaptist movement. (the Presbyterian and Baptist denominations grew out of that movement)

The revolutionary thought back in the 1500-1600s was that childhood baptism was not something it was proper to do. Inducting a child into the church with a childhood baptism was arrogant mysticism. A person needs to be of the age of reason, be trained in the tenets of the faith, and make a conscious decision to join the church.



TieMeInKnottss -> RE: Cry me a River (12/20/2015 6:20:40 PM)

I don't think any of us INTEND to "force" our religion on our children anymore than we intend to force our other lifestyle choices on our kids... As parents, as adults...we believe that we made good choices and want to protect our kids from heartache, disappointment...even from the possible retribution of an angry God in afterlife.

Did I force Catholicism on my boys? I guess I did...that is what I am and what I understand and what I believe is correct. They will have no choice in the matter until they are older...(same way I picked out clothes, hairstyles, food, sports, where we live...that I approved of and thought were the best options for them at the time). Do parents make mistakes? Yep! Every mother of a shy kid who forced them to try out for a school play, every father who made his kid play little league or take piano...would agree...we did it because at the time we thought it would be good for them and we were devastated when later we discovered just how horrible it was for them (that being said...there are equal amounts of times you push your kid to try something, to step out of their comfort zone and you see them blossom)

My oldest is a teen now and, if he asked, I would probably let him explore other religions BUT...I don't think I would support him making a choice until he is an adult. All good parents know that there is a point that you have to let go.



BamaD -> RE: Cry me a River (12/20/2015 6:26:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

I don't think any of us INTEND to "force" our religion on our children anymore than we intend to force our other lifestyle choices on our kids... As parents, as adults...we believe that we made good choices and want to protect our kids from heartache, disappointment...even from the possible retribution of an angry God in afterlife.

Did I force Catholicism on my boys? I guess I did...that is what I am and what I understand and what I believe is correct. They will have no choice in the matter until they are older...(same way I picked out clothes, hairstyles, food, sports, where we live...that I approved of and thought were the best options for them at the time). Do parents make mistakes? Yep! Every mother of a shy kid who forced them to try out for a school play, every father who made his kid play little league or take piano...would agree...we did it because at the time we thought it would be good for them and we were devastated when later we discovered just how horrible it was for them (that being said...there are equal amounts of times you push your kid to try something, to step out of their comfort zone and you see them blossom)

My oldest is a teen now and, if he asked, I would probably let him explore other religions BUT...I don't think I would support him making a choice until he is an adult. All good parents know that there is a point that you have to let go.

If you don't teach your children what values would you teach them.
Anyone who doesn't think parents should pass their values down to their children must not want them to develope values untill they are adults.
So of course they won't have any.



TieMeInKnottss -> RE: Cry me a Rive (12/20/2015 6:36:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

I don't think any of us INTEND to "force" our religion on our children anymore than we intend to force our other lifestyle choices on our kids... As parents, as adults...we believe that we made good choices and want to protect our kids from heartache, disappointment...even from the possible retribution of an angry God in afterlife.

Did I force Catholicism on my boys? I guess I did...that is what I am and what I understand and what I believe is correct. They will have no choice in the matter until they are older...(same way I picked out clothes, hairstyles, food, sports, where we live...that I approved of and thought were the best options for them at the time). Do parents make mistakes? Yep! Every mother of a shy kid who forced them to try out for a school play, every father who made his kid play little league or take piano...would agree...we did it because at the time we thought it would be good for them and we were devastated when later we discovered just how horrible it was for them (that being said...there are equal amounts of times you push your kid to try something, to step out of their comfort zone and you see them blossom)


If you don't teach your children what values would you teach them.
Anyone who doesn't think parents should pass their values down to their children must not want them to develope values untill they are adults.
So of course they won't have any.


Umm...I thought that is what I was saying but maybe it did not come across? But you are exactly correct. It is my job to instill values in my kids and those values are the ones that I have (because...hopefully, I believe in my values and believe that I am doing the right thing by instilling the same set in my kids). Right or wrong--all parents force things on their kids and religion is just one of those things. I will do so until the day I die...even long after they are old enough to make their own choices I will still be wanting them to do what is right. The difference is, once they are adults, I no longer have the right to force them (...now I can't say I will be above bribery, guilt and a little gentle arm twisting...[:D] )



BamaD -> RE: Cry me a Rive (12/20/2015 6:39:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: TieMeInKnottss

I don't think any of us INTEND to "force" our religion on our children anymore than we intend to force our other lifestyle choices on our kids... As parents, as adults...we believe that we made good choices and want to protect our kids from heartache, disappointment...even from the possible retribution of an angry God in afterlife.

Did I force Catholicism on my boys? I guess I did...that is what I am and what I understand and what I believe is correct. They will have no choice in the matter until they are older...(same way I picked out clothes, hairstyles, food, sports, where we live...that I approved of and thought were the best options for them at the time). Do parents make mistakes? Yep! Every mother of a shy kid who forced them to try out for a school play, every father who made his kid play little league or take piano...would agree...we did it because at the time we thought it would be good for them and we were devastated when later we discovered just how horrible it was for them (that being said...there are equal amounts of times you push your kid to try something, to step out of their comfort zone and you see them blossom)


If you don't teach your children what values would you teach them.
Anyone who doesn't think parents should pass their values down to their children must not want them to develope values untill they are adults.
So of course they won't have any.


Umm...I thought that is what I was saying but maybe it did not come across? But you are exactly correct. It is my job to instill values in my kids and those values are the ones that I have (because...hopefully, I believe in my values and believe that I am doing the right thing by instilling the same set in my kids). Right or wrong--all parents force things on their kids and religion is just one of those things. I will do so until the day I die...even long after they are old enough to make their own choices I will still be wanting them to do what is right. The difference is, once they are adults, I no longer have the right to force them (...now I can't say I will be above bribery, guilt and a little gentle arm twisting...[:D] )

That is what I thought you were saying but I thought I would simplify it for the intellectually challenged.



thompsonx -> RE: Cry me a River (12/20/2015 6:39:40 PM)


ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

thompsonx, you are an ignorant, abusive piece of shit. If you met my "Mom" she would be borrowing my gun to kill you with. you add nothing to the conversations you invade with your childish insults and should be banned from adult conversations.

You are another one of those pieces of shit that does not even qualify as a human being. You have never typed an intelligent comment here as far as I can tell and I happen to know that people who communicate the way you do are mentally inferior. You do not respond at all to those opinions which which you disagree, but simply denigrate or insult the person who wrote it. In fact you fail even doing that bitch, because to insult someone they have to respect your opinion. Did your retarded fucking ass even know that bitch ?

You couldn't argue your way out of a Mayor's court if you were the Mayor. you are obviously a product of the worst of US schools and a social situation that absolutely prevented you from reaching adulthood intellectually or emotionally.

You want to talk about my Mother motherfucker, well I think yours used a fucking dildo up your ass three times a day until you were 15 years old, and that was last year. And then after up your ass she shoved it down your throat, which is where you got your communicating skills.

____________________________

Now moderators, you do what the fuck you want, but look at this asshole's postings first. He is a disruptive asshole, but do not ban him. I got LOTS of vitriol for him and deserves every fucking ounce of it.


You do not need to sugar coat it...tell us how you really feel.



Termyn8or -> RE: Cry me a River (12/20/2015 6:52:17 PM)

Actually, that was a pretty good response. We will keep you around a bit longer.

T^T



thompsonx -> RE: Cry me a River (12/20/2015 6:57:13 PM)


ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Actually, that was a pretty good response. We will keep you around a bit longer.

Have you got a turd in your pocket?



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